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5.4.7 Face-Off: Feral Druid vs. Arms Warrior

Feral Warrior Comparison

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#1 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:58 PM

Greetings!

Trawling these forums leave you with a clear-cut notion that warriors are in an exceedingly strong position at the moment and for the rest of the season to come (550 weapons inc.). The opposite picture is painted when it comes to Feral druids. I have both classes at my disposal, and for a long while I've had an itch to try out one of them, although I've been back and forth about which way to go.

If one simply had to base the decision on how people describe the current state of the two classes, the choice appears simple. Warrior all the way. However, I wanted to dig a little deeper in order to legitimize my decision. And to get a better theoretical grasp of both classes.

To that end, I've compiled a Face-Off table comparing the two classes - and, at least on paper, Ferals certainly came off a lot stronger than I would've anticipated.

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So, considering the general rhetoric surrounding the overpowerdness of warriors, I figured there must be a reason why everyone thinks warriors outshine Ferals (and everyone else, bar rogues) in the melee department.

Is it simply the easier gameplay - or are warriors simply able to push out more hurt than ferals?

Given the discrepancies between my findings and what a lot of massively capable pvp'ers are saying about these two classes, I hope that better players than myself - which is pretty much everyone - can find the time to look over the table below and, hopefully, leave some constructive comments concerning what I’ve missed, misunderstood or left out.

Please bear the following in mind: 1) In a PVP setting, I'm new to both classes. Especially druid. 2) I consider the classes with the perspective of doing 2s (where the element of surprise and burst carries a lot of weight) with a hunter. 3) That I apologize in advance for sucking at managing images.

Since this is cross-class related, I've taken the liberty of posting this in both the warrior and druid sections.

#2 Evilcow

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

I thought Demo Banner didn't work against stealth anymore...
Also Hamstring if off the GCD and you can't disarm a bladestorm, in fact you can bladestorm to remove some CCs including disarm.

#3 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:27 PM

It was a mistake. I meant to write Mocking Banner - is that not correct? Thanks for clearing up that stuff about Hamstring and Bladestorm. Is Howl also off the GCD?

#4 Flavours

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

That's alot of work for a very simple decision i'm afraid.

Warriors are better because they have CC. Ferals have none.
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#5 Bluntmasterx

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:52 PM

Warrior 1 Feral 0

#6 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:55 PM

Hi Flavoúr. Thanks for your reply. Could you please elaborate on that statement a little bit? I'm sure you're right if you get into detail.

However, considering that Ferals have (depending on talents)
  • Pounch (4 sec stun);
  • Maim (Stun based on CP);
  • Mighty Bash (5 sec stun) or AOE Disorient for 3 secs;
  • Insta Ent. Roots;
  • Bear Charge Root (undispellable 4 sec root, I think)
  • Glyphed FF (3 sec ranged silence)
  • Typhoon (ranged interrupt, knock-back and slow) and
  • Clone (fully incapacitated - not the best now it has to be cast, but it's still there - and I guess you can clone of bash)

it seems like a somewhat strong statement to say that Ferals have no CC. Am I missing something? Is all their CC crap?

#7 Flavours

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostNilen, on 19 March 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Hi Flavoúr. Thanks for your reply. Could you please elaborate that statement a little bit? I'm sure you're right if you get into detail. However, considering that Ferals have (depending on talents) Pounch (4 sec stun); Maim (Stun based on CP); Mighty Bash (5 sec stun) or AOE Disorient for 3 secs; Ent. Roots, Bear Charge Root (undispellable 4 sec root, I think), Glyphed FF (3 sec ranged silence), Typhoon (ranged interrupt, knock-back and slow) and Clone (fully incapacitated - not the best now it has to be cast, but it's still there), it seems like a somewhat strong statement to say that Ferals have no CC. Am I missing something? Is all their CC crap?

3 of those CC's DR. Typhoon is not a CC. No one plays bear silence. If you can cast a clone in 3's your sub 1500 rating.

Compared to 3x Warrior stuns, only 2 on Dr, meaning they can only be half at least. A fear that acts as a stun that you can't dispell. None of it is RNG (can be dodged or avoided) has a disarm, can reflect cc, and has a CC breaker in zerker rage.

Edited by Aces, 19 March 2014 - 02:08 PM.

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#8 Flavours

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:02 PM

View PostNilen, on 19 March 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Hi Flavoúr. Thanks for your reply. Could you please elaborate on that statement a little bit? I'm sure you're right if you get into detail.

However, considering that Ferals have (depending on talents)
  • Pounch (4 sec stun);
  • Maim (Stun based on CP);
  • Mighty Bash (5 sec stun) or AOE Disorient for 3 secs;
  • Insta Ent. Roots;
  • Bear Charge Root (undispellable 4 sec root, I think)
  • Glyphed FF (3 sec ranged silence)
  • Typhoon (ranged interrupt, knock-back and slow) and
  • Clone (fully incapacitated - not the best now it has to be cast, but it's still there - and I guess you can clone of bash)
it seems like a somewhat strong statement to say that Ferals have no CC. Am I missing something? Is all their CC crap?


Basically, it seems amazing in theory, but fails in practice, just like Shadow priests or.. Communism.
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#9 KPul

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

this was written by a warrior who has no idea how to play a feral.
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#10 Flavours

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:08 PM

View PostKPul, on 19 March 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

this was written by a warrior who has no idea how to play a feral.

My Reply, or the Topic?
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#11 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:19 PM

Thanks for that.

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

3 of those CC's CR.
I assume you mean the DR on stuns? True, isn't the same the case for the two long warrior stuns? Charge is free of DR, but it lasts for 1,5 secs, right?

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Typhoon is not a CC.

Can you please explain why you find a knock-back with a following slow not to be a CC?

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

No one plays bear silence.


Considering you can change glyphs to fit whatever comp you're facing, is not viable to trade it in for a caster heavy opposition?

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:


If you can cast a clone in 3's your sub 1500 rating.


Like I wrote initially, it's mainly for 2s. To that end, I did see 1 hour worth of 2s video where Yipz cast Cyclone quite a few times. I can't say for sure, but I think Yipz is above 1500 rating.

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Compared to 3x Warrior stuns, only 2 on Dr, meaning they can only be half at least. A fear that acts as a stun that you can't dispell. None of it is RNG (can be didged or avoided) has a disarm, can reflect cc, and has a CC breaker in zerker rage.

I can definitely see that warrior CC is stronger than at first glance.

Thanks alot for your time to reply.

#12 Snuggli

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:19 PM

First point (Opener):
It's very unlikely a Warrior will get a 'bad' opener. Warriors can also stop Warlock gates which can be huge. Feral Druids have the potential to get AoE'd out (no subterfuge) and not get an opener at all. Not saying one is better than the other, it's just not as easy as putting feral druid down as a pro and warrior down as a con. They are both good in their own ways.


Second Point (Burst):
Warrior burst is farrrrrrrrr more devastating than Feral burst. It's way higher in terms of damage, skull banner also provides a benefit for your team and it's far easier just to press your 1shot and slam twice than it is to press your incarnation/berserk macro and have slightly increased damage over a 10~ second period. I've popped feral CDs into a target who's in a 5 second stun with CC on their healer and have them leave with more health than they started, the burst really isn't there. Also, another point to make, Warriors have a fear break and a magic reflect - this gives them 2 'immunities' to have as backup when popping CDs. They may be susceptible to Polymorph, but unless the Mage PoMs it, it's pretty easy to stop.. making Feral CDs much easier to peel.


Third Point (Difficulty):
Difficulty shouldn't really be taken into account when balancing, but i'd say Feral and Warrior aren't that different anymore. Feral has lost a lot of it's difficulty since Wrath/Cata times, and now we've lost instant clone it's lost pretty much all of it's skillcap. If you're able to keep track of 3 timers Feral is simple as shit.


Seventh Point (CC):
Ferals have hardly any CC, like, at all. One of the lowest CC classes in the game. It's the biggest con about Feral right now. Warriors have slightly more than Feral but have way more utility. Feral should definitely be in con here.


11th Point (Sustained Dmg):
Warrior is wayyy higher here. Deep Wounds does almost as much as both Rip and Rake added together, and Warriors hit like a truck on top of that.



These are the major ones where you're wrong, in the other ones I either agree or it's a minor mistake. The main point overall is that Warriors bring stuns, utility, huge damage and massive burst. Ferals bring .......................................... immunity to roots, slows and polymorph, and a hex/wyvern dispel.. that's about it. Everything else Warriors do better.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#13 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:21 PM

View PostKPul, on 19 March 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

this was written by a warrior who has no idea how to play a feral.

If you're referring to my initial post, I must disappoint you - compared to the people that often find themselves on these fora, I have no idea how to play either. :-)

#14 Nilen

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

View PostSnuggli, on 19 March 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

First point (Opener):
Spoiler

Thanks so much for your very thorough and insightful reply. It puts a lot of things into perspective. And, along the lines of what Flavoúr said, there are some indications that Ferals look great on paper, but perhaps lack some follow-through in practice. Compared to warriors, anyway.

#15 Oohgod

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

Quote

Warrior burst is farrrrrrrrr more devastating than Feral burst.
wat

#16 Feistyness

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

feral is more fun doe

#17 Snuggli

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

View PostOohgod, on 19 March 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

wat

compare peoples reactions to when berserk is popped to when skullbanner/reck is popped.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#18 jaimex

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:30 PM

Ferals can easily get cc off with roar>clone.

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

View PostAces, on 19 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Compared to 3x Warrior stuns, only 2 on Dr, meaning they can only be half at least. A fear that acts as a stun that you can't dispell. None of it is RNG (can be dodged or avoided) has a disarm, can reflect cc, and has a CC breaker in zerker rage.

This is why Rogu... I mean Warriors are broken.

#20 bouncyballs

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:20 PM

Feral damage is better than warrior damage on a single target. If you disagree with me now, wait for full gear. Ferals scale very very well with gear , not to say warriors don't but Ferals scale better





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