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Season 15 Survival vs Marks


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#21 Mattadoro

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:21 AM

View PostKhanitus, on 26 February 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Looks like survival is at least worth trying...

....haste for faster dot ticks / regen or mastery for magic dmg?

unfortunately haste doesnt speed up dot ticks as survival, just increases cobra cast and passive focus regen

it's still not a bad stat just doesnt speed up dots but i think crit > mastery >haste will be the way to go
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#22 substance

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:06 AM

I played hld as afflic and demo. By far the most fun iv'e had in this game so far. The hunter was marks. would love to see how surv will work out this season. Might be playing beast cleave over hlx though.

#23 Elbareth

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:29 AM

View PostKhanitus, on 26 February 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Looks like survival is at least worth trying...

....haste for faster dot ticks / regen or mastery for magic dmg?


Eventually with full gear this is going to decided by an individuals play style.  If we want to examine the raw output of our stats and assume the player will be performing a rotation with the intent on maximizing his or her's DPS the stat weights will reflect Crit>Haste>Mastery.

Now let me explain the above.  In terms of raw damage, crit will always be our top secondary stat.  Now keeping that in mind, haste and mastery now lead to a slightly less obvious choice.  For SV hunters 600 points of mastery provide about a 1.6% damage boost to our magical damage dealing shots (about 60% of our total damage).  What we are left with is our pet/abilities (crows,blink strike,lynx rush) , auto shots and our level 90 talents.  

400 points of haste on the other hand is equal to about a 1% boost to ALL of our damaging abilities while also providing us a higher focus regen (4 per second being base) and speeding up our non instant damaging abilities; cobra and auto shots.  (Keep in mind auto shots will be dealing a significant amount of damage in full gear)

What does this mean??
Basically, in a perfect scenario haste > mastery will provide more damage. However, as we all know arena is far from the perfect scenario.  I suspect mastery will be the way to roll in current gear and as we start obtaining prideful pieces as it is much more forgiving to players not fully maximizing damage at all times during an arena match.  You will not see huge results by switching to either as the % is so small in either direction but I suspect the play-style will change a bit for each.


TL;DR
In a perfect scenario haste should give you more damage but mastery will be more forgiving to the unpredictability of arena.

#24 Dhorothy

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:13 AM

View PostHektiik, on 26 February 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

When we que'd HLS with a diff hunter on ally, it felt impossible to finish some wizards or rdruid teams in full s14 gear without those chims to compliment all the cc.  Didn't que over 2400 so didn't seem, from my pov anyway that the silence was game breaker, rather the chim crits.

With a rsham in full prideful, I dunno specifically but wouldn't it be realistic to be able play around 33% crit and 35% mastery?  Might make a bigger difference this season than last.

Yeah I agree, silence is huge to finish off some of those hybrids/save our shaman. Chim shots help a lot though

#25 lol_awful

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:02 AM

I'm thinking about a BM alt. Dumb question: Cunning or Ferocity as BM? I hate the thought of losing sac but more dmg + heart of the phoneix?

#26 Mattadoro

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:16 AM

heart is negligable now with 1.8 second pet ressurection. and vs comps that rot your pet the +50% dmg it does from going cunning makes up for the slight dmg increase from ferocity. also Roar of Sacrifice is a must for arenas
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#27 Megorix

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:00 AM

Survival on the PTR seemed pretty ridiculous.... The damage is kind of like standing in front of a heavy machine gun.

#28 Nilen

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:39 AM

I posted a similar question on the Matchup, Combs, Strategy section and had some helpful insights, but I figured it'd be worthwhile to get some input directly from the AJ hunter community as well. Please feel free to redirect me to the appropriate section, if this isn't the right place to ask this question.

The premise is that I've played with the same friend for odd 4 years, and we're certainly not good arena players. We play arenas because we enjoy it, but we've long since accepted the fact that we generally lack any kind of multi-tasking abilities that go with high level arenas.

Now the other guy can ONLY play a Survival Hunter. The few times he's tried anything else, it's... let's say uncomfortable. :-) Over the years, I've tried to combine that Survival Hunter with a number of classes. Rogue, Warrior, DK, Mage, MM Hunter and, most recently, Lock.

With the start of a new season, I figured it'd be worthwhile to get some input from players far better than myself: For 2v2 (and sometimes 3v3 with a Hpally), what's the best class/spec to bring alongside a Survival Hunter?

I have the following level 90 chars to choose from: Warrior, DK, Rogue, Mage, Lock, Hunter, Pally. Hunter and Lock have the advantage of already being in full S14 gear, but I don't mind gearing up a another char if one of the other classes are better.

Any constructive insights will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

#29 hekumzx

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

Play whatever youre best at and you can probably make it work with practice.

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#30 Nilen

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:44 AM

Thanks for your reply. It's sound advice and I'm sure you're right, especially considering the low mmr we're playing at. However, I was hoping to pick the brains of better players than myself in terms of their specific experiences with Surival Hunters and what synergizes well with them.

#31 Mattadoro

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:53 PM

survival warr hpal survival dk hpal and survival lock hpal would all work well and synergize well

lock surv hpal would be the best comp out of the 3, rot both dps and cc the healer
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#32 Nilen

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:05 PM

Thanks for your reply. Would that, in your opinion, apply to 2v2 as well? And if so, what spec would be your pick to complement Survival? Most recently I've run some demo, which is good fun, offer some extra control via AT and decent burst, but feels a tad weak outside of DS. Aff, I guess, would provide more sustained rot damage all around. However, 2s seem to be extremely centered around fast paced burst windows and less around sustained damage. At least when going double dps as we tend to do.

#33 Filthpig

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:07 PM

Rogue/hunter is probably the best 2's comp. It is the most fun at least in my opinion.

#34 Mattadoro

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:08 PM

if you run hunter lock in 2s it would really just come down to what you face in regards to it being good, you would destroy things like mage priest but most likely lose to every warrior out there. Surv aff or surv demo would be as good as the other possible dps you mentioned.
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#35 Nilen

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:17 AM

Thanks, guys, for taking the time to help out a nub player. I've got something to go on now.

#36 Skiplegday

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:48 AM

So any updates on this?  Does survival does do noticeable more pressure than Marks in full prideful?

I was thinking about Arms / Survival / Mistweaver. Hard swaps on healer with ring of peace and traps on whatever dps. Could this work?

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:52 AM

View PostSkiplegday, on 16 April 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So any updates on this?  Does survival does do noticeable more pressure than Marks in full prideful?

I was thinking about Arms / Survival / Mistweaver. Hard swaps on healer with ring of peace and traps on whatever dps. Could this work?
no, it's a dispel-attracting weak piece of shit. your comp will work if 1200 is your goal.

View PostNympheu, on 14 April 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

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#38 Dhorothy

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:42 PM

Surv is good, but I think silence is just too powerful still. Even playing with a warlock I think marks is better overall. Surv owns those melee cleaves though.

In terms of RBGs, I find surv to be better.

#39 graynight

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:52 AM

i think survival works fine but with much more limited comps.  i've been switching back and forth with MM and i am almost positive SV consistently does more dmg.  all these issues with chimera or aimed crits bursting ppl down is kind of a wash to me, since lock n load and exploding crits basically make up for this.

i'm playing SV/spriest/hpal right now with real life friends who are pretty mediocre, bad enough that i would never play with them if they weren't RL friends lol.  and i myself am only a duelist level player so not even good by most ppl's standards here.  at least for this comp, i like SV better, so i imagine the same would be true with a lock.  i can't see SV being better with any other comp, but with an spriest, your spread dmg is pretty sick and the play-style is "easy."  we don't have the heavy CC/burst chains other comps have to just instantly kill anyone, so we just rely on steadily building up a lead on damage, multiple weak heal interrupts, dispels, and eventually someone gets to 20% and eats a double execute.  having your partner have a silence is nice too cuz you lost it from not being MM.




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