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This Darkened Heart - A Shendelz PVP Guide (6.0.3)

dk pvp arena guide unholy frost 5.4.7 6.0.3

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#61 Ongbaccy

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 06:54 AM

Also any merrit to the following combos?

NP + undispellable disease glyph
NP + plague leech and use NP excluslivly as scourge strike storage

Im just using defile, BOS seems like it can do some dmg in ideal situations but mostly they never come and its a waste.

#62 Wilhelmhegel

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:50 PM

Thoughts on conversion? I don't like it as much as death siphon cus of it's  high rp cost and low heal. (20 rp for ~ 5.5k-6k hp.)

#63 Alamein73

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 08:02 PM

Hey, thank you for the guide and all the work you are doing, very much appreciated.  Just wanted to ask a couple of quick questions:

1) I currently am running NP + Conversion and for the most part don't even need to switch to blood in order to tank 2-3 DPS classes on me   (I'm tempted to try the 30% heal on Emp Rune Weapon glyph to boost it even more).  Do you believe the dmg benefits of Defile outweight the constant stream of RP for conversion when being attacked by those inflicted with NP?

2) Fairly new to DK, played it as an alt during mid MoP and had a blast with it so figured if/when I come back I'd play it as a main, primarily I used Blood Tap but it was macro'd with Frost Strike in order to get the Necro Strikes, obviously those are no longer needed and I'm just assuming you leave BT as a stand alone keybind to have more control over the usage to maximize the Killing Machine procs?

3) Totally stalked your armory, notice you're currently using Unholy Blight, thoughts on Plaguebearer now?

4) I go back and forth on Chillbains/Asphyxiate all the time, on one hand I love the abilty to always have em slowed but the stun has been pretty awesome so far.

5) How do you approach Ferals 1v1? Only class that consistently gives me a hard time.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at all these, sorry for inundating you with a ton of questions!  This is all coming from a BG perspective at the moment until Arena's are out, looking forward to trying the Arthas build tonight, hadn't heard of it till this post.

#64 Ownu

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:48 PM

View PostAlamein73, on 18 November 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hey, thank you for the guide and all the work you are doing, very much appreciated.  Just wanted to ask a couple of quick questions:

1) I currently am running NP + Conversion and for the most part don't even need to switch to blood in order to tank 2-3 DPS classes on me   (I'm tempted to try the 30% heal on Emp Rune Weapon glyph to boost it even more).  Do you believe the dmg benefits of Defile outweight the constant stream of RP for conversion when being attacked by those inflicted with NP?

2) Fairly new to DK, played it as an alt during mid MoP and had a blast with it so figured if/when I come back I'd play it as a main, primarily I used Blood Tap but it was macro'd with Frost Strike in order to get the Necro Strikes, obviously those are no longer needed and I'm just assuming you leave BT as a stand alone keybind to have more control over the usage to maximize the Killing Machine procs?

3) Totally stalked your armory, notice you're currently using Unholy Blight, thoughts on Plaguebearer now?

4) I go back and forth on Chillbains/Asphyxiate all the time, on one hand I love the abilty to always have em slowed but the stun has been pretty awesome so far.

5) How do you approach Ferals 1v1? Only class that consistently gives me a hard time.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at all these, sorry for inundating you with a ton of questions!  This is all coming from a BG perspective at the moment until Arena's are out, looking forward to trying the Arthas build tonight, hadn't heard of it till this post.

1) I suppose it depends on how often you are being trained. While solo in a battleground, yeah Necrotic Plague probably outweighs Defile, but this changes in arena. I don't think you'll be looked at enough in arena to warrant Empower Rune Weapon Glyph, but I suppose we have yet to find out.

2) Right, Blood Tap was fine to macro before to gain Death Runes for Necrotic Strike, as long as you didn't spend them on anything else [too often]. Now the only real reason to take Blood Tap as Frost is for Killing Machine, as you said. I don't see any particular reason to take Blood Tap over the others as Unholy, unless you are running Death Siphon.

3/4) I've been switching around. I really like the synergy of Chillblains and Unholy Blight, and it works great for controlling enemies around you as a massive, reapplying, annoying slow. If I were to take Asphyxiate, say, for arena; I'd be using Plaguebearer. I've also been liking Necrotic Plague in that combo for Battlegrounds.

5) I stand in my defile and hit them, and don't bother with Conversion until I'm getting low. I can't exactly say I've faced a good Feral, since they are battleground Ferals, but I've fought a good handful and its usually the same thing. The fight lasts forever, and It's really about dispelling those nasty Heart of the Wild hots. Additionally, I like to strangulate them. Thought, if I were Asphyx, I'm sure they would trinket. Seems no feral wants to trinket a silence, so they usually sit it, even if they're going to die because of it.

#65 Forumz

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 10:37 PM

View PostOwnu, on 18 November 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

3/4) I've been switching around. I really like the synergy of Chillblains and Unholy Blight, and it works great for controlling enemies around you as a massive, reapplying, annoying slow. If I were to take Asphyxiate, say, for arena; I'd be using Plaguebearer. I've also been liking Necrotic Plague in that combo for Battlegrounds.
Additionally, if you're going to run Chillblains, you want to consider taking Remorseless Winter as well. The synergy between the two is quite incredible (though harder to pull off the better your opponents get).
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#66 Alamein73

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:45 PM

Yea I've been running with CB/RW/Defile so far tonight and it's been phenomenal.  Thanks to both for the responses, one last question is what stat priority are you using for gear?

#67 Schvetolga

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:32 AM

View PostOwnu, on 18 November 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

1) I suppose it depends on how often you are being trained. While solo in a battleground, yeah Necrotic Plague probably outweighs Defile, but this changes in arena. I don't think you'll be looked at enough in arena to warrant Empower Rune Weapon Glyph, but I suppose we have yet to find out.

2) Right, Blood Tap was fine to macro before to gain Death Runes for Necrotic Strike, as long as you didn't spend them on anything else [too often]. Now the only real reason to take Blood Tap as Frost is for Killing Machine, as you said. I don't see any particular reason to take Blood Tap over the others as Unholy, unless you are running Death Siphon.

3/4) I've been switching around. I really like the synergy of Chillblains and Unholy Blight, and it works great for controlling enemies around you as a massive, reapplying, annoying slow. If I were to take Asphyxiate, say, for arena; I'd be using Plaguebearer. I've also been liking Necrotic Plague in that combo for Battlegrounds.

5) I stand in my defile and hit them, and don't bother with Conversion until I'm getting low. I can't exactly say I've faced a good Feral, since they are battleground Ferals, but I've fought a good handful and its usually the same thing. The fight lasts forever, and It's really about dispelling those nasty Heart of the Wild hots. Additionally, I like to strangulate them. Thought, if I were Asphyx, I'm sure they would trinket. Seems no feral wants to trinket a silence, so they usually sit it, even if they're going to die because of it.

Are you really saying Blood Tap is out as a viable talent? I find that odd as RE/RC is just RNG and much less reliable as a peel talent. If I go BT I can reliably Tap to get a rune for CoI whereas RE/RC is just out of luck at that point.

I'm just curious, not an assault at what you're saying :P.

Edited by Schvetolga, 19 November 2014 - 12:33 AM.

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#68 Ownu

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:12 AM

No never said its out, just said its not head and shoulders above

#69 Schvetolga

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 10:52 AM

View PostOwnu, on 19 November 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

No never said its out, just said its not head and shoulders above

You said there's no real reason to take BT over RC/RE, to me that sounds like it's "out", unless you go Death Siphon.
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#70 Ghoruz

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:19 PM

So what is the general consensus, frost or unholy for arena?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

#71 Ownu

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:07 PM

View PostSchvetolga, on 19 November 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

You said there's no real reason to take BT over RC/RE, to me that sounds like it's "out", unless you go Death Siphon.

I advise taking it in my guide for control, however it won't simulate higher dps than taking RC/RE, is more what I was getting at, sorry if it wasn't clear.

View PostGhoruz, on 19 November 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

So what is the general consensus, frost or unholy for arena?

Well, until two days ago, I didn't know that there was a 25% resilience modifier still in the game. It was removed earlier today, and the damage output from Unholy seems to be more acceptable. Additionally, there have been some ninja buffs to Necrotic Plague. First there was the 20% on launch, which I didn't think would do it, but while testing it I noticed they allowed Necrotic Plague to crit again. After playing a handful of Shadow Cleave with Thasta, I'm confident that Unholy isn't out of the ring yet.

Additionally, I think I've finally figured out what the stat priority might be for both. I just need to do a tiny bit of confirming, which can come later.

I'm dreadfully sick right now, so I'll update the guide reflecting Unholy and Necro later today.

#72 Forumz

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 03:33 PM

View PostOwnu, on 19 November 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

I advise taking it in my guide for control, however it won't simulate higher dps than taking RC/RE, is more what I was getting at, sorry if it wasn't clear.

I want to point out that going Blood Tap is pretty terrible for a Breath build as well. For 150 RP you get 1 Obliterate / Death Strike / 2 Scourge Strikes. That 20 runic power will do jack shit for sustaining your Breath. Runic Corruption or Empowerment work much better for that in my opinion.
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#73 Ownu

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 07:07 PM

View PostForumz, on 19 November 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

I want to point out that going Blood Tap is pretty terrible for a Breath build as well. For 150 RP you get 1 Obliterate / Death Strike / 2 Scourge Strikes. That 20 runic power will do jack shit for sustaining your Breath. Runic Corruption or Empowerment work much better for that in my opinion.

Right, which is why I dont like breath for frost. Never considered it as unholy however.

#74 Ownu

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

On a seperate reply, some T3 testing (all dummies level 102, ROTFC active, proc trinket active in all tests. No pillar/on use trinket active in any test)

Breath of Sindy (Single Target)

One full runic bar, with all runes available to be used for sustain yields (RC):

15 hits (12 hits, 3 MS) 132537 total. One RC proc. Ticks for 10040-10041, MS for 3012-6025.

Necro Plague (Frost)

Stacked with blight and outbreak alone.

21 hits (15 hits, 6 MS) 44883 total maximum tick at 15 stacks = 3274.

Necro Plague (Unholy)

Stacked with blight and outbreak alone.

20 hits (15 hit, 4 MS, 1 Crit) 90256 total. total maximum tick at 15 stacks = 6965. The single crit was 9683.

Defile

12 hits (10 hits, 2 MS) 44317 total.

Obviously the cooldown of each needs to be considered.

#75 Forumz

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 10:09 PM

Breath is the #1 talent for burst as it stands right now.

Plague is the #1 talent for sustained dmg

Defile is somewhere in between.

Pick what fits your playstyle the most!


View PostOwnu, on 19 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:


15 hits (12 hits, 3 MS) 132537 total. One RC proc. Ticks for 10040-10041, MS for 3012-6025.

This sounds like you got a bit unlucky btw, because for every 67 RP spent, you should theoretically get 1 proc. Of course it's RNG but yeah, you should see 2 procs with your preparation on average.

Edited by Forumz, 19 November 2014 - 10:12 PM.

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#76 Mickemontana

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Posted Yesterday, 02:08 PM

I must ask, Im kinda new as a Dk..
As frost when u do dmg, are you using any obliterate without killing machine? Are you always just autoattacking and waiting for it to proc?

#77 Bridgey

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Posted Yesterday, 06:09 PM

If its true that multistrike is halved in pvp (1 chance not 2) wouldn't mastery and even crit win over multistrike for unholy?
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#78 Ownu

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Posted Yesterday, 07:18 PM

View PostMickemontana, on 20 November 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

I must ask, Im kinda new as a Dk..
As frost when u do dmg, are you using any obliterate without killing machine? Are you always just autoattacking and waiting for it to proc?

use it with out killing machine, keep your blood charges pooled (and let them over cap even) so that you have them ready when you get a killing machine

View PostBridgey, on 20 November 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

If its true that multistrike is halved in pvp (1 chance not 2) wouldn't mastery and even crit win over multistrike for unholy?

I still have to edit the guide, but right now crit is also halved in pvp as well, since crits on players are 150% damage instead of 200% damage, like they were in MoP. For unholy mastery is probably the strongest followed by versatility. Multi should still win out over crit because of necrosis

#79 Mickemontana

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Posted Today, 10:46 AM

Big thanks!
But for lvl 100 talent. I don't see big dmg coming from neither of them? I mean breath of sindra seems pretty useless. I'd rather spam frost-strikes? Going for high burst in arena atm on 2v2





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