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Cold Inferno - A Shendelz PVP Guide (6.2.0)

dk pvp arena guide unholy frost 5.4.7 6.0.3 6.1 6.2

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#21 Ownu

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:09 PM

Currently on live 6.0.3 it is still possible to heal yourself with Death Coil during Lichborne.

Is it? On beta I recall it not working. Could have been a bug, or maybe live is a bug. Either way I'lleavw it like it is until launch next week, and if it doesn't get patched, I'll remove the strike through.

I'm planning playing 3s with a SPriest and stuck deciding between a Frost DK or my Ret. Would you recommend the FDK over the Ret for that comp? Also, the only reason I'm even considering DK is that I absolutely hate pet management (especially DK's dumb garg) and Frost seems to be viable now. Do you guys see Frost being viable in the long run?


It's too early to know. As past history tells, frost is generally only good with melee cleaves. I doubt that's the case this time, but we'll see.

Edited by Ownu, 07 November 2014 - 07:12 PM.

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#22 Emfrun

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 12:00 AM

I feel like plaguebearer sucks. all it does is save you an extra unholy rune by not needing to plague strike when it falls off. you're going to be chains of icing/howling blast so the frost dot will naturally be applied with your rotation. and healers are going to be dispelling your dots anyways so the added time is useless.

Unholy blight goes amazing with necrotic plague because each unholy blight tick adds a stack to necrotic plague. so you can get the dot buffed up to 20 stacks much quicker.

Plague leech also goes good with breath of sindragosa, You can use spells while channeling so you could plague leech then reapply plague strike and chains of ice for an extra 30 runic power for 2 more ticks. theres also a lot of new glyphs that generate runic power so im thinking could destroy targets as long as you have uptime.
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#23 Ownu

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 01:42 AM

Yeah, but Necrotic sucks as of right now. I hear some people like Leech, I don't really recommend it but at the same time I don't condone it. Its just a very, very clunky spell. Its best use is removing dots from a target that someone else needs to CC, while that class that needs to CC does not have a CC spell that removes dots on application of said CC. It doesn't work out well when bursting down a kill target. While it is true that you no longer need to reapply diseases to make Obliterate hit hard, I find it rather counterproductive to use a global cooldown to remove damage, just to do more damage. You should have plenty of runes available with 10+ charges of Blood Tap.

The problem with Breath of Sindragosa is that its not exactly running out of runes to generate more runic power to continue the RP drain that is Sindragosa, but rather the fact that you can't really spend globals fast enough to keep it up. Plague Leech, as you know, does not generate runic power. I haven't tried this method personally, and IIRC beta is offline right now, so I can't go try it; but I feel that the global used on PL would just drain your runic power empty.

The benefit of Sindragosa is to do damage while doing damage;
Posted Image
So its counterproductive to do things like generate runic power for the sake of generating runic power to feed the frosty dragon.

Edited by Ownu, 08 November 2014 - 01:49 AM.

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#24 Rydar

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 02:59 AM

This is great Shendelz, incredibly informative.

So would you say Unholy is dropping below frost in viability? I still feel the spread pressure is strong and the damage overall is great, also pet stun.

Also, maybe some info on your predictions for comps in WoD at 100, and some general outlines for how to play them (Strengths, weaknesses etc).

All in all great work mate.
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#25 Ownu

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:53 AM

This is great Shendelz, incredibly informative.

So would you say Unholy is dropping below frost in viability? I still feel the spread pressure is strong and the damage overall is great, also pet stun.

Also, maybe some info on your predictions for comps in WoD at 100, and some general outlines for how to play them (Strengths, weaknesses etc).

All in all great work mate.


I tried both unholy shadowcleave and frost shadowcleave, and they both preformed well. Unholy is definitely better for like, spread damage. That pretty much only applies to shadowcleave though. Everytime I play unholy on beta and I think my damage is good, my partner dies, and I realize that my single target damage is dogshit. Hope they buff it soon.

Also, thanks for the compliment, its encouraging. Typing these up usually takes all day between typing, grammar, research, and testing.
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#26 Heero

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 11:00 PM

Is it? On beta I recall it not working. Could have been a bug, or maybe live is a bug. Either way I'lleavw it like it is until launch next week, and if it doesn't get patched, I'll remove the strike through.


I have tested it in both Blood and Unholy spec on live and can confirm that it is currently still working.
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#27 Scarkx

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:11 PM

Some things need to be removed/changed in this guide. For exemple Talent macros no longer needed, as of now if you change a talent it's automatically changed on your actionbar too. Conversion now uses different RP dump for each spec, for Unholy for exemple it uses way more RP than Frost, so it might not be an option. Unholy Blight + Necrotic Plague and some Festering Strikes is definitly an option in my opinion to burst. PL + Breath of Sindragosa too.
Lichborn in burst/trinkets heals fairly well, it needs to be mentioned too.
Desecrated Ground now, if i'm not mistaken, break/make you immune to roots/snares.

So I think building a new guide from the ground is better than editing a MoP one.

Just IMHO. :)
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#28 Ownu

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:33 PM

Some things need to be removed/changed in this guide. For exemple Talent macros no longer needed, as of now if you change a talent it's automatically changed on your actionbar too. Conversion now uses different RP dump for each spec, for Unholy for exemple it uses way more RP than Frost, so it might not be an option. Unholy Blight + Necrotic Plague and some Festering Strikes is definitly an option in my opinion to burst. PL + Breath of Sindragosa too.
Lichborn in burst/trinkets heals fairly well, it needs to be mentioned too.
Desecrated Ground now, if i'm not mistaken, break/make you immune to roots/snares.

So I think building a new guide from the ground is better than editing a MoP one.

Just IMHO. :)


While I agree with the macro thing, it was only one macro used for the sake of tooltip. The Lich/AMZ one is required [even though AMZ is dead until a later date], because existing macros (cancelaura Lich) dont swap automatically when you swap into a different talent in the same tier. As for conversion; extensive testing showed that conversion--even for unholy--still wins out in level 100 arena over the other choices in the tier unless the conditions are very specific--which I covered. If you are getting trained, conversion is better 100% of the time. No cooldown, for a constant heal at the sacrifice of damage. Death Pact, is a two minute cooldown, in trade for effectively 25% of your health. If you are being trained into the ground, like so many teams did to Death Knights over the last expansion, which one sounds better to you? Plague Leech is not even an option considering it requires death runes.

As for editing a mop guide, the only things that are generally the same is the format, and theory that did not change whatsoever. I rewrote this from the ground up only using my previous version as a format guide. If you couldn't tell that the content was generally different it makes me wonder if you read it at all, or if you just skimmed through it :\

. I kept old content with strike-throughs because that helps show to the reader, as you read, that something [major] has changed. I already mentioned all of that concerning desecrated ground. As for lichborne, this guide is written for level 100, not level 90 patch 6.0.3. If I wrote it for level 90, I would have included blood, since it's better than the other specs by far. I also already covered necrotic, defile, and sindragrosa.

Maximum stacks of Necrotic Plague ticks for less than Blood Plague+Frost Fever, and only ticks 50% quicker. It also can't crit. Taking Unholy Blight would definitely get a fast stack of 15, but it would be by no means "burst", It would hardly be any more damage than not even taking Necrotic Plague or Unholy Blight.

Edited by Ownu, 10 November 2014 - 07:44 AM.

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#29 ~Invictus

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:52 AM

Struck changes are really helpful when it comes to understanding the updates, it's been a really nice idea.
Good job Shendelz.
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#30 Scarkx

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 11:47 AM

I didn't mean to question your guide, you really did a great job, and I know im just a member but I wanted to point out some things that you might have forgotten or didn't pay attention to.
As I see you deleted the old macros wich I spoke of but left the self heal one, I think Lichborne no longer transform you into Undead so its no longer working. -I think-
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#31 DjBenx

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:44 PM

Been having great fun playing chillblains and remorseless winter with the increased lockout on strangulate. Feel it could work really well in shadowcleave with the removal of the lock blanket cs.

If you get a healer into a full stun for 6s then a 9s lockout with strangulate, then a locks coil + cs/your mindfreeze.
If a healer fakes your kick they're going to hardcast their next heal which is a free 9s lockout (unless it's a paladin).

I'm sure desecrated ground will pull out ahead, but especially v caster teams this 9s lockout is incredible.
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#32 DjBenx

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:49 PM

I didn't mean to question your guide, you really did a great job, and I know im just a member but I wanted to point out some things that you might have forgotten or didn't pay attention to.
As I see you deleted the old macros wich I spoke of but left the self heal one, I think Lichborne no longer transform you into Undead so its no longer working. -I think-


It works in UH and Blood. Death coil was removed from Frost.

Tooltip doesn't specify, unless it's a bug.


Lichborne is still best choice for all 3 specs as AMZ is complete wank 3s 20% and purgatory won't save you in any pvp situation other than maybe RBGs.

Edited by DjBenx, 10 November 2014 - 01:50 PM.

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#33 Scarkx

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:25 PM

Misunderstood again :)

I'm not saying LB is not viable anymore, IT IS the best choice in that tier, I said is that the tooltip in LB no longer tells that the DK is transformed into an Undead, thus the DC heal wont work. BUT right now IT IS WORKING so either it's a wording change in the tooltip or they reverted it.

So nevermind what I said earlier. :)
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#34 bigtheo

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:04 PM

Is Death Siphon that much worse at 100? On live, I don't see how you could argue it's worse than Conversion. Right now I see +10% HP heals from Death Siphon. The limiting factor is definitely Death Runes, but you still need a load of RP for Conversion to "feel okay". Death Pact is still good because it gives a decent burst heal, but the CD and absorb component kind of suck at the same time (I can still see the appeal of it though).
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#35 Ownu

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:32 PM

Is Death Siphon that much worse at 100? On live, I don't see how you could argue it's worse than Conversion. Right now I see +10% HP heals from Death Siphon. The limiting factor is definitely Death Runes, but you still need a load of RP for Conversion to "feel okay". Death Pact is still good because it gives a decent burst heal, but the CD and absorb component kind of suck at the same time (I can still see the appeal of it though).


Maybe I'm being cynically, but there is something about requiring death runes--which you might not always have when you need them to survive--that I dont like about the talent. Maybe if it healed for a boatload, but unfortunately its healing is based on the damage it does. If the only thing you can hit with it is like an AMS'd Dk or Cloaked Rogue, you're in for some bad news.

Been having great fun playing chillblains and remorseless winter with the increased lockout on strangulate. Feel it could work really well in shadowcleave with the removal of the lock blanket cs.

If you get a healer into a full stun for 6s then a 9s lockout with strangulate, then a locks coil + cs/your mindfreeze.
If a healer fakes your kick they're going to hardcast their next heal which is a free 9s lockout (unless it's a paladin).

I'm sure desecrated ground will pull out ahead, but especially v caster teams this 9s lockout is incredible.


Personally my favorite so far is Defile+DnD glyph+Remorseless+Chillblains+Strangulate for shadow cleave

Edited by Ownu, 10 November 2014 - 06:33 PM.

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#36 bigtheo

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:53 PM

I think depending on comp, you're really pigeon-holed into taking specific level 100 talents and glyphs. If you're running PHD, Rogue/DK, or even Shadowcleave, Defile wouldn't be a good choice (probably a bad choice for breaking CC). Therefore, you're probably forced to take either Necrotic Plague for melee comps and Breath of Sindragosa for spellcleaves. Then, you're probably forced into doing something like taking Glyph of Enduring Infection to protect Necrotic Plague stacks, etc.

At least there a lot of flexibility based on both your comp and opposing comp that we didn't see before.

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#37 Ownu

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:08 PM

Seems like all the new talents are massive CC breakers
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#38 Thasta

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:19 PM

When I play shadowcleave I couldn't care less about fears breaking. Give me more damage thanks

Edited by Thasta, 10 November 2014 - 07:20 PM.

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#39 DjBenx

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:44 PM

Personally my favorite so far is Defile+DnD glyph+Remorseless+Chillblains+Strangulate for shadow cleave


This sounds fucking amazing, healer swaps every minute with that will be insane. So less frequent healer swaps but more effective, sounds good
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#40 Ownu

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:46 PM

When I play shadowcleave I couldn't care less about fears breaking. Give me more damage thanks


I think the only thing we cared about was if the opposing healer was a monk or not :D
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