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Frost/Unholy 5.4.7 guide


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#1 sarma

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:45 PM

DK frost/unholy guide (5.4.7)

PvP Talents

Unholy :
Posted Image

Frost :
Posted Image

Those are talents that I use as default in arena. Talents and Glyphs should be changed every arena match depending on what composition you're playing, what you're up against, and what strategy you and your opponent might execute.

Level 15:
Rolling blood for unholy Plague leech / Unholy blight for frost

Unholy : Rolling blood for unholy for more aoe dmg .

Frost : Plague leech if you play with aspxyxiate or death advance, Unholy blight if you play with chillblains

Level 30
Lichborne for both specs is only viable option as it provides fear break ,polymorph/sleep immunity as well as good self heals because you can use deathcoils to heal yourself while lichborne is active

purgeatory tend to bug in pvp like guardian spirit did in 5.0-5.4 so this is not viable option and anti-magic zone is reduced to 3 seconds duration for 40% spell reduction so lichborne is always better

Level 45
Aspxyxiate is recommended for most cases for both specs. If you play with rogue or warrior or any comp in which you got plenty of short cd stuns provided by your teammates you can go for chillblains or death advance

Level 60

Unholy :
Conversion - Usable while silenced conversion provides 3-6% heal per second (its possible to spam conversion without calceling conversion aura doubling the effect for double the cost check macros below ) and its far superior to death pact and death siphon..Dk 4 piece bonus also interacts here giving you 3 runic power every second for 5 seconds while you are slowed which is usually all the time making conversion costing 2rp per sec!
However against comps that have low sustained dmg but high burst I recomend Death pact over conversion

Frost :

Death pact - conversion is not an option if you play frost because runic power has much greater value then it does for unholy dk. Spamming your conversion while you are trained will totally shut down your offense resulting in much less dmg output.

Level 75
Blood tap - why blood tap, answer is simple no rng. Other 2 talents are rng and sometimes you can do 5-6 deathcoils or frost strikes and they wont proc

Level 90
Desecrated ground - Extra pvp trinket and best option in this tier

Gorefiend has usage in 5v5 and rbgs but for 2v2 and 3v3 its just not good enough as you can already grip 2 targets in ring of frost without using it.

Remorseless winter is a pve ability and it has no use in arena games but
you can sometimes pick chillblains + remorseless winter as 5.4 strangulate is no longer on global cooldown so using strangulate+remorseless at same time on a shaman , priest or paladin healer will guarantee that rw stun will go off as they cant dispell/freedom stacks while they are silenced. Yet again if those healers are paired with enhancemet shaman , hunter , ww monk , or ret they can freedom their healers every time you silence+rw them making your RW useless.

Glyphs

Prime Glyphs:

Frost :

Shifting presences - mandatory
Dark simulacrum - mandatory unless you meet mw/war/hunter for example
Icy touch - Frost dks can purge alot this glyph is mandatory
Regenerative magic - i swap it sometimes with ds glyph against kfc

Unholy :

Dark simulacrum - mandatory unless you meet mw/war/hunter for example
Shifting presences - optional
Icy touch - optional , unholy dks can not purge much but sometimes you can get that bop off in 1-2 purges
Pestilence - Paired with chillblains its easier to slow opponets down and its easier to keep your dots up on multiple targets
Enduring infection - against double disease dispel teams such as priest/monk/x

Minor glyph :

-Glyph of death embrace - refunds 20 runic if you succesfully heal your pet

Gems / Enchants / Stats
General Priorities for Stats :

Unholy :
3% Hit>3% Expertise>Crit>mastery>haste

Most of dks go for pure crit gemming and reforging. Why is this so? In 5.4 they changed Unholy Presence to grant a flat 20% Haste to all things, up from Haste for melee (attack speed and Rune regeneration) only.Gemming haste or reforging it is total overkill if you dance your presences

If you plan to sit in blood presence and never go out of it anytime haste reforging and full str gems work just fine

Frost :
3%hit/3% expertise > Haste > mastery > crit

Frost dks gem haste because with full 550 gear you can make your rune regen under 8 seconds. Why is this so important?
This means that you can actually sit in blood presence while trained and still do descent dmg output on single target.


Recommended Gems:

Unholy :
Meta - 216 Strength / +3% Crit Damage or Tyrannical Meta Gem (Have both Helms ready, Strength meta still does more damage / burst while Tyrannical Meta Gem is better for surviving)
Red -  80 str / 160 crit
Yellow -  320 crit
Blue - 160 crit /  80 PvP Power

Frost :
Meta - 216 Strength / +3% Crit Damage or Tyrannical Meta Gem (Have both Helms ready, Strength meta still does more damage / burst while Tyrannical Meta Gem is better for surviving)
Red -  80str / 160 haste
Yellow -  320 haste
Blue - 160 haste/80 pvp power


Viable DK Comps
Dks are in pretty bad shape in mop but you can still reach high ratings.
I recomed dk/ele/druid , tsg or phd for unholy and dk/rogue/healer for frost.

Professions
Doesn't really matter. Use any professions that give strength or attack power gains. Blacksmithing is really good since it can give you crit/haste if you choose to do so. Jewelcrafting also can give you crit/haste, these professions give you choices on what you want to do.

What rotation do you use in PvP?
There is no "specific" rotation in PvP.

Playing unholy dk you want to get some attack power procs first such as Unholy strenght, pvp proc trinket or on use trinket or all 3 at same time then spread powerfull diseases on as much targets possible and pop your gargoyle.
If you want to do a hard swap you should have dotted that target first have saved atleast 10 blood charges and 3-4 death runes then aspxyxiate enemy healer and do 5-6 necrotics +gnaw on target
If your partner is free to dps at this point and your team has follow-up cc  you are already forcing major defensives or pvp trinket

Frost is easy to understand if you are in blood presence keep 2 dots up on a target fish a km proc then obliterate. If you are free to be in frost presence don't fish anything just put 2 dots on do rotation with this prio:


KM proc obliterate > necrotic strike > frost strike > obliterate

Addons:

I recomend getting magic runes but you can use this script if you dislike addons

/script RuneFrame:SetScale(2.0)
/run RuneFrame:SetPoint("top", 0, -325)

change values to move it where you want

-gladius or s arena or move anything to move your arena frames



What macros does Dks have for PvP?

This is list of all my macros :

1) focus simulacrum macro

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] Dark Simulacrum

2) arena frames simulacrum macros :

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena1] dark simulacrum

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena2] dark simulacrum

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena3] dark simulacrum

3) frost strike + blood tap macro :

#showtooltip
/cast frost strike
/cast blood tap

4) horn + da macro also removes annoying red error text

/cast death's advance
/cast horn of winter
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()

5) Death pact macro

#showtooltip
/cast [nopet] raise dead
/cast !death pact


6) arena frames grip macros

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena1] death grip

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena2] death grip

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena3] death grip

7) HB macro

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast howling blast

8) pop/cancel lichborne macro

#showtooltip
/cancelaura Lichborne
/cast Lichborne

9) Deahcoil selfheal macro + hs

#showtooltip lichborne
/use Grievous Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/cast !lichborne;
/cast [target=player] Death Coil
/use fel healthstone

10) Mindfreeze macro for focus and target

/cast [modifier:shift, target=focus] Mind Freeze
/cast [nomodifier] Mind Freeze

11)necrotic + blood tap

#showtooltip
/cast necrotic strike
/cast blood tap

12) remorseless macro
/cast strangulate
/cast remorseless winter

13) frenzy+pvp trinket

#showtooltip unholy frenzy
/use Grievous Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/cast unholy frenzy

14) arena frames macros for coi

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena1] chains of ice

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena2] chains of ice

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena3] chains of ice

15) cancelauras

/cancelaura hand of protection
/cancelaura hand of freedom
/cancelaura divine shield
/cancelaura ice block
/cancelaura conversion

16) pet macro

/petautocastoff claw
/petfollow
/petmoveto

17) stancedance macros

#showtooltip
/cast frost presence
/cast Blood presence

#showtooltip
/cast unholy presence
/cast blood presence

18) swifty macro


#showtooltip summon gargoyle
/use 10
/use blood fury
/use berserking
/cast Unholy Frenzy
/cast summon gargoyle
/use Grievous Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/petfollow
/petattack


19) leapgnaw macro

#showtooltip
/cast leap
/cast gnaw

20) conversion macro

#showtooltip
/cast !conversion

21) focus it macro

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] icy touch

22) focus grip macro

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] death grip

23) mouseover petattack macro

/cast [target=mouseover, exists] [harm] icy touch
/petattack mouseover

24) leapgnaw focus:

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus] leap
/cast [@focus] gnaw

25) arena purge macros

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena1] icy touch

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena2] icy touch

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena3] icy touch


26) pet macro

/petfollow
/petattack
/petautocaston claw

27) pet heal macro

#showtooltip
/cast [target=pet] death coil

28) leap gnaw for arena 123

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena1] leap
/cast [@arena1] gnaw

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena2] leap
/cast [@arena2] gnaw

#showtooltip
/cast [@arena3] leap
/cast [@arena3] gnaw

29) Swifty for frost

/cast pillar of frost
/use 10
/use blood fury
/use berserking
/use Grievous Gladiator's Badge of Victory

30) focus strangulate macro

#showtooltip strangulate
/cast blood tap
/cast [target=focus] strangulate

31) arena strangulate/aspxyxiate macros

#showtooltip strangulate
/cast blood tap
/cast [@arena1] strangulate


#showtooltip strangulate
/cast blood tap
/cast [@arena2] strangulate

#showtooltip strangulate
/cast blood tap
/cast [@arena3] strangulate


32) soul reaper/ scourge macro
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] soul reaper
/cast scourge strike

33) raise dead + transform macro
/cast [nopet] raise dead
/cast !dark transformation

Edited by sarma, 06 October 2014 - 08:06 PM.


#2 Forumz

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:43 PM

I like it. short and concise. It could probably do with explaining general strategies with some matchups, but that's all additional stuff and not 100% needed.
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#3 Surel

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:50 PM

Very good! you could add in "races" i guess, pros and cons.

Edited by Surel, 23 February 2014 - 02:50 PM.


#4 schnoobins

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:04 PM

Unless I've misunderstood how conversion works, you can only generate runic power by spending runes while it's active

#5 Vanguards

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:08 PM

Nice guide! Stickied.
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#6 Tripyo

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:48 PM

eu dk's gem crit?

Edited by Tripyo, 23 February 2014 - 04:00 PM.


#7 Losiro

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:20 PM

[quote name='Tripyo' timestamp='1393170494' post='4062464']
eu dk's gem crit?
[/quote]

Yes.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=EU&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&class_filter=6

Don't look at Scalier or [url="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormreaver/Nakk%C3%AEs%C3%A4mpyl%C3%A4/"]Nakkîsämpylä[/url], both appear to be win-traders (don't know about nakki). Other then that, the rest are fair game (some may have been pilots but no idea).

May want to throw in Scleave as a good unholy comp, played that to 2441 and it can also work as frost as I accidentally played it at 2250 mmr and won :P

#8 Miette

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:11 PM

I disagree with the bloodtap talent. You use it as Runic empnt/Runic corruption. The point of BloodTap is to bind it separately in order to get a rune WHEN you need it. More over, if you put it in a macro, you will waste A LOT of runes even if you don't notice it.

(PS : I'm not sure you always use it with a macro (example : Frost strike macro / Necrotic macro) but it's a bit confusing).

Edited by Miette, 23 February 2014 - 05:20 PM.

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#9 Maleficent

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:20 PM

[quote name='Miette' timestamp='1393175519' post='4062524']
I disagree with the bloodtap talent. You use it as Runic empnt/Runic corruption. The point of BloodTap is to bind it separately in order to get a rune WHEN you need it. More over, if you put it in a macro, you will waste A LOT of runes even if you don't notice it.

(PS : I'm not sure you use always it with a macro (example : Frost strike macro / Necrotic macro) but it's a bit confusing).
[/quote]
The OP said it perfectly, they're completely RNG and unreliable compared to BT. BT is more consistent and not "macroed in"; that was a Cata thing when it had a 1 min CD. BT may be bad for Frost because because RE/C have more chances to proc.

I disagree with your reasoning and find BT to be all around better.

#10 Miette

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:42 PM

I might have said something confusing : I actually disagree with the explanation of the BT talent. BT is of course always better, the explanation is however incorrect. Using BT in a macro is less interesting than taking one of the other similar talent (it might not proc sometimes, but it will always be a better rune management than macro-ing the BT talent).
However, if you want to pick BT, bind it separately because if you macro it, you will loose a tone of runes and fuck up your rune management, that's it.
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#11 Maleficent

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 06:43 PM

I understand now. :)

#12 Lyamarth

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:36 PM

Very nice guide! It's good to have something like that again :) As somebody already mentioned races could be added.

In "Professions" you say that it doesn't really matter. Well if you want to min-max you character it kinda does.
- If you are non-human and you use a pvp-trinket engineering is probably the strongest.
- Blacksmithing is superior to other professions because gemsockets let you gem what you need (most professions give 320 strenght bonus). In our case thats 640 extra crit/haste
- Tailoring 4k AP procc... well i have no clue how good it really is as a dk...
- Jewelcrafting is pretty bad in my opinion because of how the stats on the jewelcrafing gems are: 320 strength (is good when you're going for strength) mainstat BUT! 480 Haste / Crit. If you compare that to the normal gems 160 strength, 320 Crit/Haste its obviously a bad tradeoff if you're going for "secondary stats".

Thanks again for taking your time and writing this!

#13 Scalier

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:51 PM

Should add glyph of tranquil grip and glyph resilient grip to minor glyphs.

Glyph of tranquil = you keep 2nd grip after warrior reflected grip

And yea darksorrow scalier isn't me.

#14 Neosaurfang

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 08:00 PM

[quote name='Scalier' timestamp='1393185097' post='4062662']
Should add glyph of tranquil grip and glyph resilient grip to minor glyphs.

Glyph of tranquil = you keep 2nd grip after warrior reflected grip

And yea darksorrow scalier isn't me.
[/quote]

What did you play last day of season to 2.4?

- Also i'd play shadowcleave anyday over any of the comps you mentioned OP.

Edited by Neosaurfang, 23 February 2014 - 08:09 PM.

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#15 Scalier

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 08:01 PM

MW Monk Warrior DK

#16 Forumz

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

[quote name='Miette' timestamp='1393177338' post='4062557']
I might have said something confusing : I actually disagree with the explanation of the BT talent. BT is of course always better, the explanation is however incorrect. Using BT in a macro is less interesting than taking one of the other similar talent (it might not proc sometimes, but it will always be a better rune management than macro-ing the BT talent).
However, if you want to pick BT, bind it separately because if you macro it, you will loose a tone of runes and fuck up your rune management, that's it.
[/quote]

I agree with this. I feel like macroing Blood Tap into other abilities just removes the one reason you're taking the talent in the first place: control. You will have times where you need to use the ability which you've macro'd BT to, but you don't want to use BT. In that scenario, you'll be missing out on potential rune regen later on. I think it's always better to have BT on a seperate keybind.
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#17 Luvsick

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 09:41 PM

You take Blood Tap to get 2 extra necros, the control part is... secondary.

#18 Forumz

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:08 PM

[quote name='Luvsick' timestamp='1393191671' post='4062809']
You take Blood Tap to get 2 extra necros, the control part is... secondary.
[/quote]
Let me put it another way.

Is there a scenario where having Blood Tap on a seperate keybind a bad thing?

Answer: No. You can press it in between globals and you'll always be able to use it when you want to.

Is there a scenario where having Blood Tap macro'd into another ability is a bad thing?

Answer: Yes. There are times when you don't want extra runes, but you've macro'd it so you don't have a choice.

Therefor, I think it's always better to have a seperate keybind.

Edited by Forumz, 23 February 2014 - 10:09 PM.

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#19 Slaggy

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:31 AM

Played TSG as unholy to 2100 this season, ended the season at that rating also. At the risk of incuring the wrath of "more experianced" Dk's here I ask:
How does frost stack up in tsg with a warrior who tends to ONLY play shockwave/bolt or shockwave/avatar?
I understand that tsg works off constant pressure and eventually "unhealable" damage on something, and frost dk's achillies heel is the lack of sustained being put out while in blood presence. Does this make the comp unplayable, or is it just that much easier to blood boil spread aids and watch the entire enemy team rot to deep wounds + diseases within 30 seconds? I'd totally rather play frost (always loved the playstyle) but also enjoy playing at a high (comparativly) level so if its not viable its just not viable.

advice anyone?
I play full haste/corruption spec anyway, which is what I would suspect is frost candy also.

#20 forumsloveme

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:12 AM

[quote name='Slaggy' timestamp='1393201898' post='4063001']
Played TSG as unholy to 2100 this season, ended the season at that rating also. At the risk of incuring the wrath of "more experianced" Dk's here I ask:
How does frost stack up in tsg with a warrior who tends to ONLY play shockwave/bolt or shockwave/avatar?
I understand that tsg works off constant pressure and eventually "unhealable" damage on something, and frost dk's achillies heel is the lack of sustained being put out while in blood presence. Does this make the comp unplayable, or is it just that much easier to blood boil spread aids and watch the entire enemy team rot to deep wounds + diseases within 30 seconds? I'd totally rather play frost (always loved the playstyle) but also enjoy playing at a high (comparativly) level so if its not viable its just not viable.

advice anyone?
I play full haste/corruption spec anyway, which is what I would suspect is frost candy also.
[/quote]

I've had my 2,7 in WotLK playing with a Frost DK, and have played a few games with Evelin as Frost in 5.4, and imo Frost is viable, althought it fits cleave comps much more than any MCH comp. PHD and TSG are propably the best comps you could play if you want to go Frost.
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