Jump to content

Photo

PTR rogues


  • Please log in to reply
235 replies to this topic

#221 Beariorn

Beariorn
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 93
  • Talents: Frost 2/0/1/0/0/2/1
  • 2v2: 1139

Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:28 AM

No class should EVER have a spell that if they fuck up and do something wrong everything still gonna be alright. Cause some stupid spell still lets you get a good or decent opener. I think subterfuge should be removed from the game all together same with Alter Time.


your aware alter time can be used both offensively and defensively yea? it adds more dynamic ability to an otherwise monotonous lance spam. why would we ever want that removed? stop it man cmon.
  • 1
Twitch.tv/tckz -RatLeague Mage Play for Funz

"I take this srsly because wow is a srs game."

#222 glonglon

glonglon
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2,600
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/2
  • 2v2: 1905
  • 3v3: 1990

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:50 AM

It's not really about not being able to see it. It's about not being able to peel the rogue.


Ok let me clarify then. The talent subterfuge as a WHOLE isn't the problem, just one aspect of it. Getting an opener through subterfuge, and the ability to use stealth moves for 3 seconds is not a problem. I am saying that the problem is the still invisible aspect of it. What subterfuge allows a rogue to do is not what should be changed. It's the way Blizzard implemented it that should. So again, subterfuge as a whole shouldn't be removed. All that needs to be changed is to allow the rogue to become visible (sort of like when you see one in stealth before they open) while subterfuge is active. It lets you peel the rogue, see what CDs he uses, react accordingly, etc.


Stop contradicting yourself and admit you didn't knew how to read your combat text after 9 years of wow.


No class should EVER have a spell that if they fuck up and do something wrong everything still gonna be alright. Cause some stupid spell still lets you get a good or decent opener. I think subterfuge should be removed from the game all together same with Alter Time.


I want you to remember this patchnote :

http://us.battle.net.../blog/10158897/

Especially this part :

Posted Image

You people talk as if you are the only person in your team, guess what , you are not. You are playing 3v3, you have plenty of ways to shut down another class , whether if it's in stealth or not.
Examples:
Monk: aoe kick stun(idk it's name)
Lock:Howl
Priest: fear
Let's not include hunter's which can scatter rogues from miles away while they are in stealth
Warrior: Shockwave
And to the rest of classes who cannot aoe cc some1, guess what , u can just stand on top of ur partner and you will instantly be able to see the rogue when he stunlocks one of your teammates. You talk as if subterfuge makes them being able to stun some1, it does not.
Rogues will still be able to stun after that, so it's not rly about being able to stun a target, but not being cced in the stun duration so that u can do dmg while u stick to it.
I don't think that subterfuge needs a nerf with all this aoe in the game and the the extra ccs every single class has taken this expansion, in fact i think it's perfectly balanced around rogue opener.


100% agree.

Btw, I find it ridiculously OP for a KFC to be able to shockwave the kill target while stormbolting+trap the healer.

Warriors should be obliged to chose between shockwave & stormbolt having 2 stuns is insane.

Same for hunter's wyvern sting, it's too much CC...Imo they should force MM hunters to chose between silencing shot & wyvern sting.
  • 4

2928d50b7e413a8ddaf370ee54429eb5.png


#223 Icyfresh420

Icyfresh420
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 216
  • Talents: Frost 1/2/1/2/2/2/.
  • 2v2: 2401
  • 3v3: 2766
  • 5v5: 2403
  • RBG: 2316
  • LocationFreshland

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:01 PM

I want you to remember this patchnote :

http://us.battle.net.../blog/10158897/

Especially this part :

Posted Image

Every single time I see some moron who talks about this to whine and moan about mages I laugh my ass off, not only because they most likely play some moronic brain numbing cleave in arena
But also because they look at that as a buff and QQ while not understanding in the slightest why it occured
It occured in the same patch/season/change as the MAGE MASTERY CHANGE
which in effect nerfed EVERY SINGLE SPELL a mage would use on a frozen target by about 55%
Went from s13 critting 80-110k frostbolts, 70-80k icelances, 27-33k frozen orb TICKS, and 130-155k frostbombs
To s14 critting 30-40k frostbolts, 50-75k icelances(without rogue modifiers you derps) 7-10k frozen orb ticks, and 80k frostbombs and everyone and their grandmothers cries about mages getting "buffed"

tl:dr nerf all mage damage by 50-55%, buff icelance by 43% after OMG MAGE OP BLIZZARD Y U BUFF ICELANCE OMGGG

Edited by Icyfresh420, 25 February 2014 - 01:04 PM.

  • 0

#224 Icyfresh420

Icyfresh420
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 216
  • Talents: Frost 1/2/1/2/2/2/.
  • 2v2: 2401
  • 3v3: 2766
  • 5v5: 2403
  • RBG: 2316
  • LocationFreshland

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:17 PM

You people talk as if you are the only person in your team, guess what , you are not. You are playing 3v3, you have plenty of ways to shut down another class , whether if it's in stealth or not.
Examples:
Monk: aoe kick stun(idk it's name)
Lock:Howl
Priest: fear
Let's not include hunter's which can scatter rogues from miles away while they are in stealth
Warrior: Shockwave

Going to complete the list for you cus yolo
And I feel like loling at everyone who says its 100% unpeelable
Warrior: shockwave, heroic leap to your partner and shockwave during smoke bomb, innervene ontop of partner and shockwave on the opener, fear
Monk: leg sweep aoe stun, ring of peace disarm
Mage: Blink to your partner to see the rogue and deep/pom poly, dragonsbreath if fire, pet nova/ring of frost
Druid: typhoon, disorienting roar, can blink ontop of the partner to disorient, stun, ns clone
Warlock: howl of terror, shadowfury aoe stun
Priest: Fear
Shaman: Although this is very situational and would require iffy timing/prediction it is possible to cap stun the rogue
Hunter: ridiculous stealth detection to just scatter trap a rogue out of stealth, flare ontop of the partner that is opened on and it brings him out of stealth AND subterfuge
Paladin: blinding light
Posted Image
  • 0

#225 spelgubbe

spelgubbe
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Darksorrow
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 299
  • Talents: Frost 1/1/0/2/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 1559
  • 3v3: 2683
  • 5v5: 96
  • RBG: 1710

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:18 PM

Blizz should've just tuned down the mage mastery scaling and mages would've been fine and more fun to play, and you would actually benefit from landing your casted damage spells.
  • 1
Fixed an issue during the Murozond encounter that could affect Death Knights and cause their Anti-Magic Shell ability to go on a slightly longer than intended 12-day cooldown.

#226 mirox

mirox
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Burning Legion
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 600
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/2/1/1/1
  • 2v2: 1990
  • 3v3: 2782

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

2. it is completely brainless as you can restealth with a full row of dots and still get an opener rotation, or run straight through aoe like rain of fire and get an opener


Might wanna play a rogue in current state of aoemagedon with auto applied 30 seconds dots and 8 second dispel cd so you can maybe reconsider that.
  • 5

#227 Chefyata

Chefyata
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Ragnaros
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 93
  • Talents: Assassination 0/2/1/2/0/1
  • 2v2: 1715
  • 3v3: 1599
  • LocationPortsmouth

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

Its easy to tell if a rogue uses cds in subterfuge, especially if you know how to use interrupt bar or your combat log

The dumb things about subterfuge are

1. its literally impossible to peel a rogue during subterfuge unless you have a long range aoe cc or actually can see the rogue

2. it is completely brainless as you can restealth with a full row of dots and still get an opener rotation, or run straight through aoe like rain of fire and get an opener


I do get your point. I hate the current state of the rogue class myself.

We used to be able to win a game but executing clutch moves such as: timed vanish of dots > sap, vanish different spell, restealth through dots and still get an opener and many more.

I agree it does feel brainless, however it has already been pointed out that this is just the metagame of the rogue class right now. It is how things are done.
No stealth opener = noodle damage. Sad but true.
  • 0

#228 Chefyata

Chefyata
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Ragnaros
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 93
  • Talents: Assassination 0/2/1/2/0/1
  • 2v2: 1715
  • 3v3: 1599
  • LocationPortsmouth

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

Stop contradicting yourself and admit you didn't knew how to read your combat text after 9 years of wow.




I want you to remember this patchnote :

http://us.battle.net.../blog/10158897/

Especially this part :

Posted Image



100% agree.

Btw, I find it ridiculously OP for a KFC to be able to shockwave the kill target while stormbolting+trap the healer.

Warriors should be obliged to chose between shockwave & stormbolt having 2 stuns is insane.

Same for hunter's wyvern sting, it's too much CC...Imo they should force MM hunters to chose between silencing shot & wyvern sting.


More like 3 if you count charge (which you should tbh cuz it adds really nice :D)
  • 0

#229 Chubbsmalone

Chubbsmalone

Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

This entire debate boils down to the fact that many people hate the stealth mechanic; they hate feeling like they have no control over their situation - and they often feel helpless when attacked by someone from stealth. Blizzard largely ignores this concern and went to the extent of designing a spec which entirely revolves around stealth/restealthing and procing Find Weakness. In the current state of the game, creating a spec which revolves around stealth/find weakness to do ANY amount of noticeable damage REQUIRED a talent like Subterfuge to make it competitive.

Taking that a step further, Blizzard's Subtlety design is pitifully dependent on Find Weakness. If (and it's a huge if) Blizzard were to give sub rogues a way to apply Find Weakness outside of stealth - then they would be able to remove the largely hated talent, Subterfuge, completely. Rogues wouldn't need to go out of their way to constantly look for opportunities to drop combat and restealth, and it wouldn't even make sense to do so. i.e. Blizzard could alter the rogue design where it makes more sense to stay in combat, opposed to peeling, running and restealthing all day.

A change like this would essentially make Rogues more "warrior-esk", and I'm not so sure Blizzard wants that. I think they enjoy the subtlety niche - but I'm not so sure the community is enjoying it.
  • 0

#230 mirox

mirox
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Burning Legion
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 600
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/2/1/1/1
  • 2v2: 1990
  • 3v3: 2782

Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:19 PM

This entire debate boils down to the fact that many people hate the stealth mechanic; they hate feeling like they have no control over their situation - and they often feel helpless when attacked by someone from stealth. Blizzard largely ignores this concern and went to the extent of designing a spec which entirely revolves around stealth/restealthing and procing Find Weakness. In the current state of the game, creating a spec which revolves around stealth/find weakness to do ANY amount of noticeable damage REQUIRED a talent like Subterfuge to make it competitive.

Taking that a step further, Blizzard's Subtlety design is pitifully dependent on Find Weakness. If (and it's a huge if) Blizzard were to give sub rogues a way to apply Find Weakness outside of stealth - then they would be able to remove the largely hated talent, Subterfuge, completely. Rogues wouldn't need to go out of their way to constantly look for opportunities to drop combat and restealth, and it wouldn't even make sense to do so. i.e. Blizzard could alter the rogue design where it makes more sense to stay in combat, opposed to peeling, running and restealthing all day.

A change like this would essentially make Rogues more "warrior-esk", and I'm not so sure Blizzard wants that. I think they enjoy the subtlety niche - but I'm not so sure the community is enjoying it.

Spot on! I think that blizzard just might end up listening to the non rogue community whines, finally give up one day, and make rogues more warrior-like. But that would just ruin the way rogues are meant to be played and erase rogue `niche` completely.What would be the difference between a rogue that never re stealths and a monk or a warrior?

All in all, blizzard, just do the good old `-eviscerate,ambush and backstab now do 50% less damage`, so that we can go on and not listen about how OP subterfuge is anymore.Because once we hit like a wet noodle again , and are there only for the stuns we bring, people dont give a fuck even if we have permanent subterfuge.
  • 0

#231 Chubbsmalone

Chubbsmalone

Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:35 PM

I've never understood why players, and even Blizzard devs, target core damage abilities and talents and scream "NERF THE NO SKILL ROGUESSS!!//!?!", when GEAR SCALING is the main cause of concern.

Rogue damage in 5.4 has been very reasonable and most people have no gripes with it. The only Rogue change going into the patch is a NERF to Nerve Strike; so ask yourself - what else is causing all the QQ about rogue damage? The answer is gear and how it is scaling - this happens at the end of every expac. Wake up people.
  • 0

#232 Schvetolga

Schvetolga
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 1,069
  • Talents: Unholy 0/0/2/0/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1152
  • 3v3: 2534
  • RBG: 2060

Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:24 PM

Spot on! I think that blizzard just might end up listening to the non rogue community whines, finally give up one day, and make rogues more warrior-like. But that would just ruin the way rogues are meant to be played and erase rogue `niche` completely.What would be the difference between a rogue that never re stealths and a monk or a warrior?

All in all, blizzard, just do the good old `-eviscerate,ambush and backstab now do 50% less damage`, so that we can go on and not listen about how OP subterfuge is anymore.Because once we hit like a wet noodle again , and are there only for the stuns we bring, people dont give a fuck even if we have permanent subterfuge.


So you're telling me the rogue "niche" is and has been running away and restealthing? There has never been as much restealthing in a season as in S14.
  • 0
Posted ImagePosted Image

#233 varellz

varellz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 425
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/2/2/2/0/0
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:36 PM

So you're telling me the rogue "niche" is and has been running away and restealthing? There has never been as much restealthing in a season as in S14.


s12,s13

but ofc you didn't notice in s12 when every rogue got oneshotted and s13 when every team had a feral spamming ff
  • 6

#234 mirox

mirox
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Burning Legion
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 600
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/2/1/1/1
  • 2v2: 1990
  • 3v3: 2782

Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:09 PM

^ exactly, and even before that, rogues just took every opportunity to restealth if it presented itself. Remember Samulex in cataclysm?
Why would you be in the open and do laughable damage that can be out healed by hots, when you can running around pillars trying to get restealth and have people chase you to stop you?

Edited by mirox, 25 February 2014 - 06:15 PM.

  • 0

#235

  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Spirestone
  • Reckoning
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/1/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 672

Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:35 AM

s12,s13

but ofc you didn't notice in s12 when every rogue got oneshotted and s13 when every team had a feral spamming ff

THIS
  • 0

#236 adidaslol

adidaslol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1
  • Talents: Subtlety 1/2/2/1/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 1949
  • 3v3: 2203
  • RBG: 2067
  • Locationpittsburgh PA

Posted 14 August 2015 - 10:17 AM

i miss samule :(
  • 0
LJONEs




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<