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#41 Corleonesx

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

View Postglonglon, on 26 February 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

@Corleonesx

Hi Don Corleone,

I have a little question about stats and I dunno if the pinned guide is still accurate, so what is your stats priorities as a holy paladin ? I guess it's :

Intellect > crit > haste > mastery > spirit  

Am I wrong ?

Thanks in advance for your future reply :)

Hello man,

The order is

Int > Crit > Mastery > Haste

I did not put in spirit because it depends on the comp: when I run kitty, I forge from spirit to mastery but lets say when I play LSP I reforge to crit and spirit etc.

I can give comp specific gear and reforge and stuff if you want to get further information :)
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#42 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:10 PM

I actually run with 13,66% haste, 21,5% ,mastery and 19,5% crit. This means I went for a Mastery > Haste > Crit build, but I gemmed and reforged to keep a certain level of crit. Without 5% spellhaste I gain 2 extra tricks of EF, which I believe is allright since the Beacon transfers it. That means I gain 2 extra ticks on myself, pets and my 2nd partner that is not being targetted.

I did some LSP and ended at 2050 MMR after like 12 games. We went 12-1 but half of games litterally lasted 15 minutes. We couldn't score kills untill dampening came in and helped us, I ran with 7500 spirit and I almost never had mana issues.

#43 glonglon

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

Thanks for your reply Don Corleone, as usual it was very helpful :)

Since your feedback was very insightful and helpful for the AJ community, I thought It would be great If you could write a holy paladin guide for 5.4.7, the one currently pinned doesn't seem to be up to date.

However, I admit that writing a guide takes time and effort so I understand if you do not want to do so.

View PostCorleonesx, on 27 February 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I can give comp specific gear and reforge and stuff if you want to get further information :)

yes I am interested :)

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#44 Chapunie

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:15 PM

Great thread (y)
"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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#45 Corleonesx

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:45 PM

View Postglonglon, on 27 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Thanks for your reply Don Corleone, as usual it was very helpful :)

Since your feedback was very insightful and helpful for the AJ community, I thought It would be great If you could write a holy paladin guide for 5.4.7, the one currently pinned doesn't seem to be up to date.

However, I admit that writing a guide takes time and effort so I understand if you do not want to do so.

yes I am interested :)

I would love to do that, in fact I can write a brief one for the fellow rather experienced holy paladins :)

I'm at 2.250 MMR atm and last time I checked, I was the 6th paladin on EU. Achieved that with kitty cleave.

Here I go

LSP: 5-15min games so I got with int>crit>spirit>mastery>haste(don't even bother with haste tbh)

Kitty: 1-7min games int>crit>mastery=spirit (because the shield that comes with mastery is shitty imho and almost any class can dispel it sadly..)

PHDk: same as kitty

TSG: same as kitty ( DON'T PLAY THIS, you won't get better at your class if you play this comp imho. However I've seen some rank 1 people playing TSG and the way they play is amazing, if you can play TSG like that I'd say go for it :) )

Thug: no MoP exp yet

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Just give me the comp name and I'll give you detailed info about them Holy Paladin PoV.
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#46 Corleonesx

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:49 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 27 February 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

I actually run with 13,66% haste, 21,5% ,mastery and 19,5% crit. This means I went for a Mastery > Haste > Crit build, but I gemmed and reforged to keep a certain level of crit. Without 5% spellhaste I gain 2 extra tricks of EF, which I believe is allright since the Beacon transfers it. That means I gain 2 extra ticks on myself, pets and my 2nd partner that is not being targetted.

I did some LSP and ended at 2050 MMR after like 12 games. We went 12-1 but half of games litterally lasted 15 minutes. We couldn't score kills untill dampening came in and helped us, I ran with 7500 spirit and I almost never had mana issues.

Yo Felic!

Thanks for your posts on this thread :)

I did play LSP too, and I think it has potential this season.

The EF ticks imho don't mean much because it barely ticks above 30k, and almost any class can dispel/purge/spellsteal it. Thus I stopped trying to follow a haste build. Mastery, however; is viable but still I think the best way overall is the crit/spirit one.
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#47 melignent

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:46 AM

on zerg comps you want to run Crit>master>spirit.. there is a fine line of how little spirit you want to have..every reforge goes into Crit. and mastery and spirit has to be balanced. thats based on how well you generally do w/ your mana

on caster comps or melee/caster you tend to have a preference. its iffy atm due to the new gear but i know for the most part ppl really enjoyed Crit over mastery. its preference. i choose Crit, i think crit this season will be even better due to higher stats. if you reforge full crit you should be along the lines of 36% with buffs. add the 25% crit from HS (61% total on HS) once fully geared. you should basically get a quick cast proc all the time.



but it should go Crit>spirit>mastery>haste or Mastery>spirit>crit>haste.

#48 Feliclandelo

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:14 PM

I think most of you here forget that haste also lowers the cooldown on HS, generating more Holy Power / chances to crit. Crit however, as you get closer to 50% will be prone to more RNG.I don't believe im relying purely on luck to top off your partners and I prefer to have solid and larger heals on average. For PvE Mastery and Intellect are often the go-to gems, because they generate more HPS. It has to be noted that they go with SH in 25man though since EF doesn't stack shields anymore. Intellect also increases regular heals by a lot.

There's a lot of different options. The only real solid advice I can give is to atleast go for one of the EF haste breakpoints. If you're 400 haste rating away or 200 above, there's simply no reason not to make sure you're exactly at it to gain that 1 extra tick or reforge the surplus of 200 haste to more mastery or crit. Spirit vs. more crit/haste/mastery/int should obviously also be considered depending on your comp. If you run KFC, PHD (first of all hang yourself), but secondly you can reforge away from a lot of spirit.

Edited by Feliclandelo, 01 March 2014 - 06:11 PM.


#49 Protasm

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 01 March 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

There's a lot of different options. The only real solid advice I can give is to atleast go for one of the EF haste breakpoints.

Please forgive the rookie question, still learning Holy...  Could you please explain what the EF haste break points are, or point me to a resource where I can learn more?

Thank you...  Great original post, great follow-up guide by the OP, and excellent reader comments!  I've learned a lot from your efforts.

#50 Feliclandelo

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:29 PM

View PostProtasm, on 02 March 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Please forgive the rookie question, still learning Holy...  Could you please explain what the EF haste break points are, or point me to a resource where I can learn more?

Thank you...  Great original post, great follow-up guide by the OP, and excellent reader comments!  I've learned a lot from your efforts.

Posted Image

There's simply no reason to be 200 haste rating off from an extra tick on EF. In longer games in 3v3, 5v5 or rbg you often have multiple EF stacks up on your teammates and you only refresh it on the one taking damage. The rest, such as on yourself or on pets (keeping it on yourself for +50% increased healing also means the beacon basicly transfers 75% of standard EF to your partner on top of the one he already has) often expire. Throw an EF on the pet of your partner, and you have a free extra tick for 50% for 200 haste rating.

Being above that for that matter also means you could reforge/regem into more HPS instead by going mastery, int or crit. Get another haste piece if you lack a bit for the next, and you can't reach the lower numbers and sacrifice a bit of crit. Remember it still lowers the cooldown of HS and it lets you use globals faster which can be life saving sometimes.

The most important thing however is partners, teamplay and your own personal skill. In the end those 1 or 2 gems will decide nothing in the long run.

#51 silarog

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

Hello there Corleone,

I have few questions, u said not to run TSG cuz we wont get better at our class, now i am wondering why is that? Also  my m8s are warrior and DK so i would rly much like to play with them, so since i am stuck in TSG what is  the way to get better with it?:)

Other thing is more general to all healers and that is how to effectivly avoid getting CC, which means to keep my team alive and still not get CCed?

and on the side note i am using raid proffiles(from blizzard UI) and it tends to fuck up the order in which me and my team mates are shown, meaning my targeting macros dont corespod to order in which raidporfiles has placed my and my teammates healthbars.

thanks in advance and congratz on your title :)

#52 improveyup

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:57 PM

I don't understand why you are bashing TSG when you are playing kittycleave, aren't they like the same thing?

Edited by improveyup, 02 March 2014 - 04:58 PM.


#53 Naxsis

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:30 PM

^
+ don't play jungle and lose to rshamans after you train them for 5 mins.. makes you look bad
lf 3s on alt healers, got everything but monk..monk incoming naxsis#2507

#54 Corleonesx

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:33 PM

View Postsilarog, on 02 March 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hello there Corleone,

I have few questions, u said not to run TSG cuz we wont get better at our class, now i am wondering why is that? Also  my m8s are warrior and DK so i would rly much like to play with them, so since i am stuck in TSG what is  the way to get better with it? :)

Other thing is more general to all healers and that is how to effectivly avoid getting CC, which means to keep my team alive and still not get CCed?

and on the side note i am using raid proffiles(from blizzard UI) and it tends to fuck up the order in which me and my team mates are shown, meaning my targeting macros dont corespod to order in which raidporfiles has placed my and my teammates healthbars.

thanks in advance and congratz on your title :)

Thank you man!

TSG is one of the hardest comps to play at high end arena. Due to the lack of CC the synergy must be amazing but at lowerratings well up to 2.2+ it is quite easy. Now if you are new to paladin, you cannot improve your positioning or situational awareness on 30 second long games. That is why I am telling to new palas to not to try TSG.

I also use blizz ui frames, and I don't know any way to fix that sadly..

Unline other healers, we are way too vulnerable to CC. Paladin is all about LoS'ing the enemy CC. However lets say you are playing a melee cleave it is hard to LoS and heal your partners at the same time because they will constantly LoS you to score a kill. You have to make sacrifice at there: whether it is necessary to heal the partner or not to get CCed. That is your call and it will improve over time. Eventhough I got glad for example, I dropped from 2200 to 2k tonight because I played with some randoms and we positioned ourselves badly.

View Postimproveyup, on 02 March 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

I don't understand why you are bashing TSG when you are playing kittycleave, aren't they like the same thing?

Kitty is harder and you know that.

View PostNaxsis, on 02 March 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

^
+ don't play jungle and lose to rshamans after you train them for 5 mins.. makes you look bad

We fucked up today.. :(
Xwede ji te razi be...

#55 jaimex

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:36 PM

imo kitty is easier, more burst, more uptime, people are just more scared of their health bars going negative from necros.

#56 Corleonesx

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:43 PM

View Postjaimex, on 02 March 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

imo kitty is easier, more burst, more uptime, people are just more scared of their health bars going negative from necros.

Untill people get fully geared, I think TSG is stronger.
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#57 Dayzlol

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:50 PM

Nice guide! rep

#58 Corleonesx

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

View PostScumgodx, on 03 March 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Nice guide! rep

Thank you!
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#59 Rallo

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

@Corleonex

I have a question regarding the mastery vs crit discussion, you explained above on what comps we should go crit and mastery.
But I'm more of a "why" guy, can you elaborate on mastery is good? and why is that good for certain games/comps.
I know for a fact that crit grants Infusion of Light and haste grants shorter cds and more ticks to EF.
But what does mastery grant us except for a shitty absorb. What is it good for?

If someone can honestly give me a serious and detailed answer I'll appreciate it.
I quit ln 5.2 and reactivated my subscription around 2 weeks ago, 5.4.7 is new to me.
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#60 Corleonesx

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:23 PM

Sorry for the late reply fellas, I stopped playing WoW... Atleast my current account. I recently got admitted to an university in the USA, and I'm preparing for it. After I move to US - in a couple of months - I will return the game in US servers :)
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