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Mw Monk stats 5.4.7 crit arena spirit

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#1 forumsloveme

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:05 PM

Ok lol, I just realized how drunk I've been when I made this post... Here is my sober edit and rephrasing:

I have several questions regarding our gearing for next season, as I love min/maxing my characters, but am quite horrible in theorycrafting myself, so I'll try to take them step by step.

Right now in S14 I was using Spirit items, with the 2nd (non-spirit) stat reforged to Crit, Int/Crit gems in red, Crit gems in yellow and Crit/Spirit gems in blue sockets, with the 432 Spirit/3% higher Crit effect meta.

My reasoning behind this was:

Even though Crit is our best throughput stat and also acts as a sort of regen stat, there will be times where you can't drink/use a lot of Mana Tea stacks at once, and the Spirit will help you bridge those phases.

Questions:

1.: I know S14 ends soon, but just for the sake of knowing it now: Have I been wrong with this? Would using Crit items and refording their 2nd (non-crit) stat to spirit while keeping the same way of gemming have been better all the time?

2.: If it wasn't better already, will going Crit items reforged to Spirit be better than Spirit items reforged to Crit next season? With the higher ilvl I could imagine that the Spirit you get from reforging would already be enough to bridge the no-drinks-/no-tea-phases.

3.: Due to the way Crit works, everyone knows there will be a point at which crit becomes worse than other stats. Will we reach this point in Prideful gear? And what stat would be higher priority after reaching it? Mastery seems useless, there are already tons over tons of mastery orbs spawning right now. Haste isn't affecting our main heal (since Orbs are already GCD capped), and Hots are worthless vs teams that can dispel offensively (and let's be honest, what comp can't these days). I guess Int? I could imagine staying with crit items, reforged to spirit, but a bit more int-focused gemming.

Thanks already for your attention and any eventual replies.
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#2 forumsloveme

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:55 AM

Bump for the edit
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#3 forumsloveme

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:21 PM

No one? really?
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#4 Primius

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:52 PM

Tried a few different builds on PTR..

I tried a full haste build playing with ele shaman and was able to get to the 4th additional tick on Enveloping which was insanely good, and still managed to hit 23% crit.  I was running 6000 spirit. I actually reforged all my spirit off. You pretty much can keep someone up with renewing mist/enveloping/wave with a few ticks of soothing.  It's very strong because we actually have reached an item level where we can make our HOTs really good. Problem is no dispel protection so it's risky but the chi regen and sustain healing is nutz.

I tried full crit breaking 40% crit.  It's equally stupid, and probably overall better.  You pretty much are critting on stacks so often that you can not run out of tea and the burst healing can't be matched.

I also tried a crit/haste build where i got to the second enveloping mist tick and was able to stay at 34% crit. It was very strong but doesn't offer the benefits of going all out on one or the other.

#5 forumsloveme

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:52 PM

View PostPrimius, on 18 February 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Tried a few different builds on PTR..

I tried a full haste build playing with ele shaman and was able to get to the 4th additional tick on Enveloping which was insanely good, and still managed to hit 23% crit.  I was running 6000 spirit. I actually reforged all my spirit off. You pretty much can keep someone up with renewing mist/enveloping/wave with a few ticks of soothing.  It's very strong because we actually have reached an item level where we can make our HOTs really good. Problem is no dispel protection so it's risky but the chi regen and sustain healing is nutz.

I tried full crit breaking 40% crit.  It's equally stupid, and probably overall better.  You pretty much are critting on stacks so often that you can not run out of tea and the burst healing can't be matched.

I also tried a crit/haste build where i got to the second enveloping mist tick and was able to stay at 34% crit. It was very strong but doesn't offer the benefits of going all out on one or the other.

Thanks for the reply, seems you're still the only really active monk on here.

Ok, so you basically confirmed my thoughts. Haste is really good for hots, but will get purged off vs any good team, mixed builds are ineffective and crit will stay the main stat.

I guess I'll just do it the way I planned next season, buying crit items and reforging to spirit or haste.

Ty :)
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#6 Primius

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:59 PM

View Postforumsloveme, on 18 February 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply, seems you're still the only really active monk on here.

Ok, so you basically confirmed my thoughts. Haste is really good for hots, but will get purged off vs any good team, mixed builds are ineffective and crit will stay the main stat.

I guess I'll just do it the way I planned next season, buying crit items and reforging to spirit or haste.

Ty :)

I found once i hit 40% crit that spirit was all but useless.  You build tea so fast that spirit is a non-issue.  It's just impossible to be without tons of tea at crit levels that high, and if you get into a group with someone that has the 5% crit buff it's gg.

Haste is incredible too but it has the drawbacks of zero dispel protection BUT the chi regen is insane, and enveloping mist is insanely powerful, as well as renewing mist.

Seemed at 4 additional ticks on Enveloping that is almost a half million heal when you factor in crits even at only 23-24% crit.  You land that before getting hit with a CC with Renewing Mist on a target and they more then likely won't die.  

Soothing Mist is also insane when you are at 60% haste. Chi regen is nuts and soothing's heal while enveloping is up is going so fast that it's virtually a joke to keep someone up.

I think haste levels are high enough where both play styles can be supported.  The GCD cycling from having that much has is pretty boss.

None of it matters however since regardless of what build you run, rogues will kill one of your partners before sap wears off on you.

#7 lehel

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:03 PM

View PostPrimius, on 18 February 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

I found once i hit 40% crit that spirit was all but useless.  You build tea so fast that spirit is a non-issue.  It's just impossible to be without tons of tea at crit levels that high, and if you get into a group with someone that has the 5% crit buff it's gg.

Haste is incredible too but it has the drawbacks of zero dispel protection BUT the chi regen is insane, and enveloping mist is insanely powerful, as well as renewing mist.

Seemed at 4 additional ticks on Enveloping that is almost a half million heal when you factor in crits even at only 23-24% crit.  You land that before getting hit with a CC with Renewing Mist on a target and they more then likely won't die.  

Soothing Mist is also insane when you are at 60% haste. Chi regen is nuts and soothing's heal while enveloping is up is going so fast that it's virtually a joke to keep someone up.

I think haste levels are high enough where both play styles can be supported.  The GCD cycling from having that much has is pretty boss.

None of it matters however since regardless of what build you run, rogues will kill one of your partners before sap wears off on you.

Rogues will be an issue for all healers, and some changes definitely need to be made for non rogue teams to even enjoy this upcoming season. If everyone QQ's hard enough we may get a hotfix 2 months in..... =/

#8 forumsloveme

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:53 AM

View PostPrimius, on 18 February 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

I found once i hit 40% crit that spirit was all but useless.  You build tea so fast that spirit is a non-issue.  It's just impossible to be without tons of tea at crit levels that high, and if you get into a group with someone that has the 5% crit buff it's gg.

Haste is incredible too but it has the drawbacks of zero dispel protection BUT the chi regen is insane, and enveloping mist is insanely powerful, as well as renewing mist.

Seemed at 4 additional ticks on Enveloping that is almost a half million heal when you factor in crits even at only 23-24% crit.  You land that before getting hit with a CC with Renewing Mist on a target and they more then likely won't die.  

Soothing Mist is also insane when you are at 60% haste. Chi regen is nuts and soothing's heal while enveloping is up is going so fast that it's virtually a joke to keep someone up.

I think haste levels are high enough where both play styles can be supported.  The GCD cycling from having that much has is pretty boss.

None of it matters however since regardless of what build you run, rogues will kill one of your partners before sap wears off on you.

Have you actually had so much problems with chi regen? I feel like the only time I lack it, is when I used mana tea without actually having to.

I guess I'll ignore Spirit completely then... still not sure about haste, it just feels so pointless with almost every class being able to purge... maybe go for more Int on gems? Like, Int/Crit in yellow, instead of pure Crit, etc.

Edit: When using a full crit build, what would you suggest reforging items to? First haste breakpoint (16,65% haste)? Second even? Spirit?
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#9 Shridevi

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:28 PM

I don't think there will be any trick.  The top monks last season probably didn't even know the haste caps.  They just bought spirit/haste gear and reforged all haste/mastery into a mix of crit/int/spirit, none of which being "better."

Last season I had gear with ~2424 haste (no haste buff, env) and 3178 (ReM) in rbgs.  I would forget to swap gear and heal the same.  I'll probably go for effortless 3145 haste and spirit/crit/int.  5376 haste for env would be nice but thats -4% crit.

It will matter even less in WoD with no reforging and less gem slots.  A year ago you could get pve trinkets and customize a lot of things.  It doesn't matter, you can copy any random MW on the ladders and it would work.

#10 forumsloveme

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

I think what I'm gonna do is:

- Buy all crit offparts, no spirit items (with the increased ilvl, the spirit you get baseline from items will be enough to bridge times where you can't drink/mana tea)
- Reforge my mastery/spirit to haste up to the highest haste breakpoint i can reach without dropping crit
- Gem Int/Crit in red, Crit in yellow, Crit/Spirit in blue, unless we will reach a point (in full prideful) where getting another point of crit becomes shit, in which case I'll gem Int in red, Int/Crit in yellow and Int/Spirit in blue.
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#11 Primius

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:47 PM

View Postforumsloveme, on 20 February 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

I think what I'm gonna do is:

- Buy all crit offparts, no spirit items (with the increased ilvl, the spirit you get baseline from items will be enough to bridge times where you can't drink/mana tea)
- Reforge my mastery/spirit to haste up to the highest haste breakpoint i can reach without dropping crit
- Gem Int/Crit in red, Crit in yellow, Crit/Spirit in blue, unless we will reach a point (in full prideful) where getting another point of crit becomes shit, in which case I'll gem Int in red, Int/Crit in yellow and Int/Spirit in blue.

It will be interesting to see what happens this season. Since the overwhelming majority of monks on the ladder was using orb bot and now that is no longer working I wonder how many will keep playing.  i honestly believe the only reason we saw an large increase on the ladder was because of that bot becoming easily available to the masses.

I am so glad I never broke down to use it. Someone on Tich in trade chat was making jokes about how no Mistweavers wanted to do any Wargames because the bot is no longer working.

#12 forumsloveme

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:18 PM

View PostPrimius, on 21 February 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

It will be interesting to see what happens this season. Since the overwhelming majority of monks on the ladder was using orb bot and now that is no longer working I wonder how many will keep playing.  i honestly believe the only reason we saw an large increase on the ladder was because of that bot becoming easily available to the masses.

I am so glad I never broke down to use it. Someone on Tich in trade chat was making jokes about how no Mistweavers wanted to do any Wargames because the bot is no longer working.

Didn't know that, good thing they stopped the bot abuse though... People resorting to stuff like this are simply pathetic
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#13 forumsloveme

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:28 PM

Update after playing ~200 games on my monk already this season, and talking to Baten about it:

- Crit still main stat (what a surprise)
- Haste is useless as a secondary stat, your heals are already strong enough without the added ticks to the hots. Full haste builds like some of the more active monk posters here have tried them, might be a viable alternative if running zen sphere for added dispel protection
- Spirit as your secondary stat will still be preferred over getting haste breakpoints (unless prioritizing haste instead of crit as your main stat), to bridge phases with low mana tea stacks
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#14 DerpiousMaximus

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

i'd just say pick all the pieces that have crit as their highest stat. Reforge everything into crit. And either go for socket bonuses with crit int in red and spirit crit in bleu. Or go for full Crit gems. (i'd personnaly skip pvp power bonuses for full crit). Mind you this is on the new gear you are getting. ATM i'd prefer to just balance stuff out. But with the new gear we will have enough mastery and haste baseline to focus on crit only.

#15 Primius

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

View PostDerpiousMaximus, on 11 March 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

i'd just say pick all the pieces that have crit as their highest stat. Reforge everything into crit. And either go for socket bonuses with crit int in red and spirit crit in bleu. Or go for full Crit gems. (i'd personnaly skip pvp power bonuses for full crit). Mind you this is on the new gear you are getting. ATM i'd prefer to just balance stuff out. But with the new gear we will have enough mastery and haste baseline to focus on crit only.

Yeah I was thinking about that yesterday. There is really no reason not to go full yellow 320crit gems in every slot on all new gear.




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