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5.4.7 Moonkin Stats


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#41 Nadagast

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:40 AM

Why would you go for haste breakpoints that require NG instead of ones that don't require NG? I have very, very limited PvP experience on my moonkin, but I am under the impression that you spend a lot more time outside of NG than in NG. Is that wrong? Also, starsurge procs seem more important while you don't have NG up, to carry you to your next eclipse faster.

And, as you say, gameplay feels much smoother the more haste you get. Is that not a good enough reason to give up ~2k crit rating for 2k more haste? (Assuming that's possible with next season's gear) 2k crit rating is only about 3% crit.
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#42 Siuox

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:47 AM

Gonna simcraft it and compare numbers
idk why and i was wondering the same thing :P

okay simcraft wouldn't make sense, because I always have NG up.

There's no way I can get more haste than 10.289 without geming into haste next season.
I am just geming the way I would in PvE for max. damage and this is crit :P

Edited by Siuox, 11 February 2014 - 01:00 AM.

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#43 Nadagast

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

I don't think simcraft will be useful for this. The reason why moonkin guides (and simcraft) say to go for NG breakpoints is because you're constantly casting in PvE, so you're triggering eclipses (and hence entering NG) much more often. In PvP, I think you're much more likely to have a significant gap between eclipses, (you're usually not standing there spamming wrath/starfire) meaning that we should go for the non-NG breakpoints.

Of course, this is pretty much entirely theorycraft on my part. I've only played some 2s games and I have no gear, so I don't really have a good sense of boomkin arena. I'm just guessing at things, I could well be wrong.

It might be worth considering the 6.6k +2 ticks non-NG breakpoint, as well, as a low haste setup for next season.

okay simcraft wouldn't make sense, because I always have NG up.


!?!? Really?
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#44 Siuox

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:02 AM

in simcraft I would have NG up all the time*

Next season we have one more dottick between the Nature's Grace gaps. And one more dottick during Nature's Grace.

I don't think it's worth trying to get 2000 more haste just for one more dottick.
In some cases for example you "overbuff" your old dots before there would be any extra dot tick.

Imo the 12439 hastecap is not reachable and I won't try to reach it. Sure, some owls will go for it though.

Starsurge Proc Chance WITHOUT NG:

12439 Haste: 10 ticks * 0.31 * 0.3 = 0.93

10289 Haste: 9 ticks * 0.34 * 0.3 = 0.91

5273 Haste: 8 ticks * 0.36 * 0.3 = 0.86

Remember that you also rely on "critting starsurges" to do damage. Most damage is during your cooldowns where NG is up.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
5273 Haste 10289 Haste 12439 Haste In Moonkin Form

Edited by Siuox, 11 February 2014 - 01:42 AM.

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#45 Nadagast

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:09 AM

in simcraft I would have NG up all the time*


Ah, okay that makes more sense :D
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#46 Nadagast

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:27 PM

@Siuo, thanks for the pictures. On the PTR, my naive Moonkin gearing got stats similar to your 3rd picture, but with more int and less crit.

Did you have a chance to play around with any of these gear setups at all? It looks like the 12.5k haste setup gives the most starsurges, but they crit slightly less often than the 10k haste build. The 5k haste setup seems like you're basically trading haste for mastery, which doesn't seem worth it to me.
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#47 Nadagast

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:27 AM

Man, not a lot of moonkin enthusiasm around here... :)
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#48 Polke

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:37 AM

Man, not a lot of moonkin enthusiasm around here... :)

That's because they are shit
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#49 Creamo

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:43 AM

Man, not a lot of moonkin enthusiasm around here... :)

We've been beaten down into the dirt. The rest rolled warriors. :P

I think the main reason no one in pve cares to go over that 11th dot tick(aside from crit being more valuable) is that wrath caps at 10,350 haste.

Personally, I couldn't live without it. The faster gcd's and casts feel so much better to me. I suppose though if I was to gear for a heavy burst comp with incarnation I might go crit/mastery...but I'd hate it :(
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I don't even fotm


#50 Vulcon

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:22 PM

I was recently still running a more heavy Mastery/crit setup and just switched to haste/crit, loving the haste much more. Kinda brings me back to cata a bit as we stacked haste then too.

On the note about simcraft and NG uptime.....What do you all think about Glyph of Omens? I've been using it and I kinda like it. Also since they made Astral Communion un-interruptable, with all the haste we have it doesnt take much time to get back into eclipse.
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#51 Siuox

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

using glyph of omen against caster cleaves and switching it for glyph nature's grasp against meeles (no idea why noone uses this glyph, maybe cause everyone uses the treants)

I didnt play arount with the stats, because I will only go for 10289 haste next season.

Edited by Siuox, 14 February 2014 - 03:56 PM.

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#52 superplowxzz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:29 PM

Is it me or moonkins dmg is a little bit retarded on ptr?
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#53 stevieshankalot

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

Is it me or moonkins dmg is a little bit retarded on ptr?


really? :D cause that would be sick for me ! :D what do you mean by retarded?
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brb everyone

#54 superplowxzz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:35 PM

Like, I was playin kfc on ptr, and my shaman got hit by 2 starsurges in a row, 186k, 182k and he died

Edited by superplowxzz, 14 February 2014 - 04:35 PM.

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#55 Creamo

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:23 PM

The way we scale with gear I'm not surprised to hear that, honestly. I'd still give it all for survival instincts or something.
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I don't even fotm


#56

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:52 PM

using glyph of omen against caster cleaves and switching it for glyph nature's grasp against meeles (no idea why noone uses this glyph, maybe cause everyone uses the treants)

I didnt play arount with the stats, because I will only go for 10289 haste next season.

yeah i use the tree ents otherwise i would do this too :)
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#57 Zerud

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:55 PM

Like, I was playin kfc on ptr, and my shaman got hit by 2 starsurges in a row, 186k, 182k and he died

Was the moonkin playing with incarnation? Because with all procs/buffs and incarnation you can already reach these numbers -granted once every blue moon- on live.
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#58 Nadagast

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:07 PM

On the note about simcraft and NG uptime.....What do you all think about Glyph of Omens? I've been using it and I kinda like it. Also since they made Astral Communion un-interruptable, with all the haste we have it doesnt take much time to get back into eclipse.


For what it's worth, I'm planning on using it on my boomkin. I am basing that on absolutely no 3s experience though. :)
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#59 Creamo

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:58 AM

I use the glyph fulltime, since I use treants. The glyph and 4pc keep eclipses almost manageable. Might of Malorne in WoD might change all that though.
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I don't even fotm


#60 Vulcon

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:21 PM

I've been using it full time for a little while now and I find myself constantly being in eclipse and not having to use AC, but its always there if you need to. But In 3's I find that with the extra person to dot and cc Omens does shine. I just asked the question because I saw alot of higher rated Moonkins on the ladder that dont seem to use it and their 3rd glyph always seems so lack-luster compaired to this.
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