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Scrub lock pushing for 2k in 3's, advice about LSD + Warlocks in general

lsd warlock affliction arena comp

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#21 Megorix

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Facerolled to 2k running Destro/WW/RSham. WW just needs to play like a rogue on crack opening opportunities for you to cast. The fact that you have the two best executes in the game makes it ridiculously easy to land kills.

Cheers.
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#22 crsdfr

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:02 PM

You basically just described every game i've had past 1750, to the T. If KFC by some miracle doesn't kill me in an opener, they will easily catch up to my gate and finish me off in the 2nd cc chain. Lastnight was horrible because I had pugged really experienced players for LSD, gotten blow up in an opener by KFC and the 2.4k alt resto druid pushed blame on me for the loss even though my gate, portal, and defensives were all on cooldown, while in sight of him. It kind of sucks the fun right out of 3's for me.


:'(

That's the worst part of it, feeling responsible for the teams loss because your class is a fucking punching bag. Then sitting in silence in queue, everyone more than acutely aware the team would be far better off with a Warrior, Hunter, UHDK or Rogue instead.

Inevitably 3 games later they drop group and block you on Skype.

I've tried to analyze it all best I can. And I think a big part of the trouble I have with melee are these ranged long duration stuns on 30cd (Stormbolt/Asphyxiate/FoJ), and Charge stun in particular. You can spend 20s self peeling just trying to land a fear though the fucking labyrinth of kicks, faux interrupts and fear immune mechanics, only to end up HERP CHARGE STUN STORMBOLT SLAM SLAM SLAM FOJ SLAM KILLSHOT DEAD immediately anyway. It's fucking obnoxious.

Unrelated but I also got solo'd by a Mistweaver earlier today when we were the only two left. Jade lightning was ticking me for 33k through LoS while he happily dispelled every UA I could cast, occasionally stopping to shit out a bunch of green spheres or take another sip of his infinite mana pot.

Just had to vent. It's been a frustrating weekend.
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#23 Eckbok

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:00 AM

:'(

That's the worst part of it, feeling responsible for the teams loss because your class is a fucking punching bag. Then sitting in silence in queue, everyone more than acutely aware the team would be far better off with a Warrior, Hunter, UHDK or Rogue instead.

Inevitably 3 games later they drop group and block you on Skype.

I've tried to analyze it all best I can. And I think a big part of the trouble I have with melee are these ranged long duration stuns on 30cd (Stormbolt/Asphyxiate/FoJ), and Charge stun in particular. You can spend 20s self peeling just trying to land a fear though the fucking labyrinth of kicks, faux interrupts and fear immune mechanics, only to end up HERP CHARGE STUN STORMBOLT SLAM SLAM SLAM FOJ SLAM KILLSHOT DEAD immediately anyway. It's fucking obnoxious.

Unrelated but I also got solo'd by a Mistweaver earlier today when we were the only two left. Jade lightning was ticking me for 33k through LoS while he happily dispelled every UA I could cast, occasionally stopping to shit out a bunch of green spheres or take another sip of his infinite mana pot.

Just had to vent. It's been a frustrating weekend.


You aren't alone, dude.

Tonight I tanked again, sub 1770 but somehow climbed to 1838, with some vigilance. A lot of guys have been pvp'ing for years and can easily scoff at the trouble we're having, but to constantly pug and all too often experience the skype silence before disband is really, really demoralizing.

My last game tonight was against a WMD, arguably the most dangerous damage comp i've faced- the warrior stuck on me the entirety of the match and was virtually unpeelable; the mage, our main target, freely casted and saved cs for me when the warrior's shout/pummel/leap charge didn't interrupt me. My druid ate the majority og cyclones/polys but he was very successful in keeping me alive even though I dipped to 15% about 3 times. When they decided to switch to my shaman is eventually when momentum slowly tilted to our favor and we landed a kill on the mage, at this point I had spread dots so deep into their team that the druid had absolutely nothing left, ate a UR fear and we got the kill - all the while, the warrior stood at full health, with almost no CC on him throughout the entirety of the match, still beating the piss out of my shaman. The -ONLY- reason why we won that game is because of gateway play and my shaman winning the lottery.

Recklessness. Shield wall. Second wind. Disrupting shout, spell reflect and mass spell reflection - blowing my blood horror (assuming it isn't reflected BACK to me), only to force a recklessness and follow up with my shadowfury almost always results in me dying. His off dps can keep my healer locked down for 8 seconds and it is ample time to 1 shot me. Don't even get me started with TSG - the healer is globalled and the lock dies in a gnaw.

Don't get me wrong: no one likes complainers - I respect WoW and the players who compete and earn what they deserve but seriously - this season is a living nightmare for warlocks. KFC, KFC, KFC, TSG, WMD, KFC, KFC, WMD. Every time I queue it is groundhog day
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#24 OzCymru

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:33 AM

Recklessness. Shield wall. Second wind. Disrupting shout, spell reflect and mass spell reflection - blowing my blood horror (assuming it isn't reflected BACK to me), only to force a recklessness and follow up with my shadowfury almost always results in me dying.


I find against warriors I often have to shadowfury melee->fear the healer to actually generate some pressure while being tunneled.
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#25 Jonatan

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:59 AM

I dont know shit about locks but as far as addons goes i use GladiusEX over Gladius, its the same thing as gladius BUT it shows important cooldowns under the healthbars of the enemy, and it also got an gladius frame for party, with cooldowns, which helps since you dont have to ask if your priest got swap so you dont have to block etc (im a mage) and just say swap!
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#26 hekumzx

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 09:25 AM

I'm a decent warlock but i'm very, very inexperienced in regards to actually competing with and against players who know exactly what they are doing and when to do it. My playstyle is usually to pop DS in the opener and blanket everything in my LOS with AIDS as fast as humanly possible. My ELE sham is very vocal and aggressive and hits me up when he is about to blow up a target, and that is the one that I hit with a haunt and work my way to CS/fear a healer whilst we maintain momentum. My biggest weakness is that I often forget to curse the other team, and I usually lock up on warriors since they have 2 silences and stuns, and I virtually can't fake any pummel - half the time I miss a gate and my team loses solely because we didn't have mobility.


I think a lot of good locks wait for 10 stack of agony, then demon soul and swap that around. I don't play lock but I play with a lot of them. This is probably comp to comp basis but, something to think about as you improve.
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A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

VO1yUL2.png

Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#27 hekumzx

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 09:30 AM

6. DR in a nutshell: Each person has a set of diminishing returns for each school of CC. For a warlock you have several different DR's including fear, stun, and horror. Once you have feared someone their DR kicks in and the next fear will be reduced by 50%, then 75% and so on until they're immune. Basically you cut the duration in half each time you do it. It's not exact but its something like 8s -> 4s -> 2s -> 1s - >immune.

8s -> 4s -> 2s -> 1s - >immune

8s -> 4s -> 2s -> 1s - >immune

8s -> 4s -> 2s -> 1s - >immune


A 2300 lock just told you that there is a 4th DR in the game that I apparently missed for 14 seasons. AJ is not always the most helpful site.

Really?
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A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

VO1yUL2.png

Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#28 Nexxer

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 09:36 AM

A 2300 lock just told you that there is a 4th DR in the game that I apparently missed for 14 seasons. AJ is not always the most helpful site.

Really?


Proves that most people who play lsd have a really good insight into the game.
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#29 Hackattack3

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 05:49 PM

Quick update on lock viability vs current comps.

I did 3s for the first time on my mage the other night (MLS) and we were rolling up to 2k mmr ventless. We had no trouble keeping the lock alive and the only losses vs these mongo comps were when they got lucky w/ a early kill on our rshammy. DKs just flopped over. What worked well vs KFC was to keep our healer at max range and pressure the hunter hard. We were dot heavy so he had to be careful with deter (wouldn't save him) and the rsham just outranged scatter/trap and disengage/trap combos. Killing pets also helped.

I guess my recommendation would be to try different comps till you get more comfortable with playing defensively on your lock. As MLS, if they mongo tunnel you (lock) and leave the mage alone, their healer will eat 10-15 sec of CC with an orb out and something will die. Current state mages force those mongo comps to either tunnel the mage or play more defensive. I would also try RLS, nerve strike peels could be great for keeping you up if you find a good rogue.
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#30 Nadagast

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:54 PM

I think a lot of good locks wait for 10 stack of agony, then demon soul and swap that around. I don't play lock but I play with a lot of them. This is probably comp to comp basis but, something to think about as you improve.


Use DS with all your int procs, which is usually before you have time to get a 10 stack agony out. Int procs are more important than waiting for the stack, although agony stacks are definitely important.

I'll also agree with Mr Chanimal, use shadowfury whenever you can, it's a lot better than coil most of the time. I'd say pretty much always use shadowfury unless you're playing with a rogue, or a warrior who is using stormbolt + shockwave.

Also, if you're having trouble being trained, I'd suggest a couple of things:
1. Practice. You gotta learn to be calm and do your thing while getting trained.
2. Don't overlap defensive CDs. You and your healer have a limited number of defensive CDs. If you use two defensive CDs when one would have been enough, it is a major mistake, and will often lose you the game. Learning to make quick judgements on how many CDs to use is not easy--you and your healer need to get good at predicting how much damage will be coming in, and be quick at communicating what you're each using.
3. Play comps where you don't get trained as much. For example, the warlock is a lot less likely to be trained playing MLS.

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#31 zenga

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

A 2300 lock just told you that there is a 4th DR in the game that I apparently missed for 14 seasons. AJ is not always the most helpful site.

Regardless of the blooper this thread is one of the more informative ones for non glad levels players that I've seen in a while!
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#32 hekumzx

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:43 AM

Regardless of the blooper this thread is one of the more informative ones for non glad levels players that I've seen in a while!



Yeah, true true.
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A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

VO1yUL2.png

Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#33 Pwnzlol

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:23 AM

Lmao at the 4th DR. Btw dr doesn't reset at exactly 15secs everytime. The server actually checks every 5secs.
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#34 Wayreth

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:51 PM

I'm certainly no expert(playing LSD around 2.1k as the druid healer), and I realize you are looking for tips from a Warlock perspective, but there are likely things that both your partners can do to improve your survivability as well.

As the druid in LSD, I play mass entangle instead of typhoon since the knockbacks DR. ME is great for stopping the initial stop on gateway, or root/beaming the healer if he uses Symbi on the shaman. I assume he is running Soul of the Forest and if not, should be. Playing agains a comp like KFC, you mentioned the warrior sticking to you almost all game. One mistake a druid healer often makes is simply trying to heal through the damage rather than prevent it with root/clone/stun. While being mindful of spell reflect, use those fast clones on the warrior to not only alleviate pressure, but allow for casting to create counter-pressure. Once you have counter-pressure, this also opens up the druid to come out and get a CC on the healer. Also be sure to try to keep up a fully charged mushroom so if you do get stuck in some CC, you can top someone off quick afterward.

As the shaman, grounding the traps is huge and should be a primary goal against hunter teams. At that rating, you shouldn't have a ton of well-coordinated cross CC/trap covering. Always make sure the shaman is in range to tremor warrior fear/ground trap. KFC likes to try to trap off a stormbolt or just a standard scatter/trap.

If you avoid full traps and fear, druid should be able to keep alive either of your targets provided you stagger your defensive CDs.
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#35 Nadagast

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 08:18 PM

One mistake a druid healer often makes is simply trying to heal through the damage rather than prevent it with root/clone/stun.

I'm not a druid, but I actually think it's the opposite. Too many druids focus on doing risky things like stopping damage with CC, screwing up their positioning. Have a strong focus on positioning to get CCed as little as possible, and be good at knowing how to use your heals for maximum throughput. When your team has strong pressure, you can go in for CC. Of course, this doesn't hold in all circumstances, but I think in general, healers don't focus on avoiding CC enough. It's the most important part of the game for a healer, by far.
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#36 Wayreth

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:19 PM

I'd definitely agree that avoiding CC and positioning should be the #1 priority. I was just thinking along the lines of using a SotF proc to clone/root a melee dps under "safe" circumstances(reflect down, out of focus pummel/disrupting range, etc) might be better than a hasted regrowth while the melee is touching your dps butthole, especiall during dps cooldowns like reck/wings/ascendance. Granted you you have far more experience, so I'd take your advice over mine - just going from my experience in the low 2k bracket :P
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#37 Regent

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:25 PM

I'd definitely agree that avoiding CC and positioning should be the #1 priority. I was just thinking along the lines of using a SotF proc to clone/root a melee dps under "safe" circumstances(reflect down, out of focus pummel/disrupting range, etc) might be better than a hasted regrowth while the melee is touching your dps butthole, especiall during dps cooldowns like reck/wings/ascendance. Granted you you have far more experience, so I'd take your advice over mine - just going from my experience in the low 2k bracket :P


I think what you said has a lot of merit.

I have personally only been duelist range as Rdruid, but glad range as almost every other healer. The thing that is different about rdruids is that you can rarely just stand there and heal people through stuff like hpals/rshams (atleast currently). Thats why you either have to play with really tanky classes, classes that throw out a ton of CC or you need to stop as much damage as possible.

What Nadagast said probably makes more sense over the history of WoW, but your advice is probably much more relevant to the current season and comps that rdruids tend to run.

Just use RMD as an example. How much do the high rated RMDs even heal? Not much at all since they end the games really fast with insane CC/damage. In that comp its much better to try and get out as much pressure while you still have healing cds than trying to avoid cc/heal.

Edited by Regent, 14 February 2014 - 09:26 PM.

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#38 Nadagast

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:37 PM

I'd definitely agree that avoiding CC and positioning should be the #1 priority. I was just thinking along the lines of using a SotF proc to clone/root a melee dps under "safe" circumstances(reflect down, out of focus pummel/disrupting range, etc) might be better than a hasted regrowth while the melee is touching your dps butthole, especiall during dps cooldowns like reck/wings/ascendance. Granted you you have far more experience, so I'd take your advice over mine - just going from my experience in the low 2k bracket :P

The thing that I would say here is that even a 'safe' circumstance isn't really safe. It's so much better to be 40 yards away from your healing target than 30. If cyclone range was 40 yards, I would agree with what you've said. Cyclone is great, I think there should be more NS clones, and less NS heals. But the extra 10 yards is often a huge deal. If you can be 40 yards away from your teammate, spamming heals on him, I would say in most situations that's the correct thing to do. There are some situations where you're forced to be less than 40 yards away from your heal target, I think it's more acceptable to go for random DPS cyclones in those circumstances, when you aren't sacrificing range.


I think what you said has a lot of merit.

I have personally only been duelist range as Rdruid, but glad range as almost every other healer. The thing that is different about rdruids is that you can rarely just stand there and heal people through stuff like hpals/rshams (atleast currently). Thats why you either have to play with really tanky classes, classes that throw out a ton of CC or you need to stop as much damage as possible.

What Nadagast said probably makes more sense over the history of WoW, but your advice is probably much more relevant to the current season and comps that rdruids tend to run.

Just use RMD as an example. How much do the high rated RMDs even heal? Not much at all since they end the games really fast with insane CC/damage. In that comp its much better to try and get out as much pressure while you still have healing cds than trying to avoid cc/heal.

A druid in RMD will probably be cloning more than a druid playing LSD. What I said mostly applies to non-crazy-overpowered-damage comps. But I think druids playing both comps could benefit from more emphasis on positioning and less on random DPS cyclones. Cyclones at key moments are game winning, but sacrificing positioning to throw out random DPS cyclones is usually bad. As a healer, you sitting CC is the worst thing that can happen to your team.
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#39 Hackattack3

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:38 PM

Predicting incoming damage as an rdruid is crucial. Landing a good ironbark mitigates soo much. Removing enrages/buffs with soothe also clutch. Cyclone obv.

Rdruid has a lot of tools to mitigate incoming damage.
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#40 Hackattack3

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:40 PM

A druid in RMD will probably be cloning more than a druid playing LSD. What I said mostly applies to non-crazy-overpowered-damage comps. But I think druids playing both comps could benefit from more emphasis on positioning and less on random DPS cyclones. Cyclones at key moments are game winning, but sacrificing positioning to throw out random DPS cyclones is usually bad. As a healer, you sitting CC is the worst thing that can happen to your team.


A lot of this is also comes down to a comp you are playing against. Always risky for a defensive clone on a warrior. It's hard to keep track of every spell reflect CD. Bad luck and a reflected clone could be the end of the game since clone won't dr with anything from a KFC.
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