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lsd warlock affliction arena comp

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#1 Eckbok

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:24 PM

I'm a 1900 pug lock who is finally in a position to push for 2k+, after luckily finding some bros to PVP with who are solid 2100 players and i'm a little intimidated since I haven't done anything outside of pugging randies in trade who rage after 1 loss and tell me to kill myself.

I just have a few questions for some of the generous locks here who are looking to help me out:

1. Shadowfury or Coil for my Ele's capacitor? By default I use shadowfury but against some teams this doesn't work out so well when there isn't an opportunity to stun more than 2 people (i.e. arms+frost, melee+ranged)

2. Would getting my gateway under the bridge be worth it if I know full well that i'll be charged at the top?

3. What kind of addons do you use to track the enemy team's defensives, and/or any other addons you find useful for your lock in arena? (Note: The only addons I use are: Affdots, plates for my dots, omniCC to track my CDs, Gladius for my targeting and tracking their trinkets, and LOSA to improve my awareness.)

4. Versus other lock teams, is it a good rule of thumb to sac my pet since "XDWHOEVERKILLSPETWINS"? (I find this is very evident in LSDvsLSD)

5. Warriors + Mages:   Are gates and SB+portals my only counter to this bullshit considering how they are just going to train me 100% of the time? Warriors are virtually unkitable while mages have the mobility and freedom to LOS/CC while dealing stupid damage to any of their targets - half the time we keep the match going for as long as possible and train the healer around 6 minutes and pray to our Gods that somehow we'll win.

6. Absolutely stupid, babby's first question:
What/how does diminishing returns work?
If I fear 1 person, does that apply a DR to the entire team or just that one person?
Could I fear 2 people off the bat and force dispels/trinkets in an opener or is that just limiting my CC with nonsensical DR? I've played this game for years and have never once sat down to ask anyone this to understand full well how DR works - I simply just fear every now and again when my team needs a peel, when we set up a kill or when a derp trinkets out of a hex/cyclone/poly/etc because I know if I just go fearhappy then we'll lose.

7. What is a good way to approach WLS?

8. Curse of Enfeeblement on Healers and CoE on kill targets - am I doing it right?

9. Basic LSD from the warlock's POV : what are the key offensive CDs my Shaman and Druid have that I should know like the back of my hand?

I'm a decent warlock but i'm very, very inexperienced in regards to actually competing with and against players who know exactly what they are doing and when to do it. My playstyle is usually to pop DS in the opener and blanket everything in my LOS with AIDS as fast as humanly possible. My ELE sham is very vocal and aggressive and hits me up when he is about to blow up a target, and that is the one that I hit with a haunt and work my way to CS/fear a healer whilst we maintain momentum. My biggest weakness is that I often forget to curse the other team, and I usually lock up on warriors since they have 2 silences and stuns, and I virtually can't fake any pummel - half the time I miss a gate and my team loses solely because we didn't have mobility.

I don't expect everyone to answer this as thoroughly as possible, but any advice would definitely help; I will definitely follow up on any and all advice, links to streams and/or guides. Thanks bros

-Eckbok the Warlock
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#2 Filthpig

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:50 PM

1. Unless you're playing with a warrior or rogue I would always use shadowfury. You can sfury healers into fears every 30 seconds.

2. ALWAYS put your gateway under the bridge at the start of the map crossing under the bridge to one of the other ramps. Pop dark soul for the haste if you think the team will be able to charge/silencing shot/counterspell you. Knowing when you can move your gate midmatch will come with practice. You should always be able to get a gate at the start of a match in: Ruins and the new MoP arena without any help from partners, the other maps may need a root or typhoon but I never have trouble getting a gate except in nagrand or sometimes sewers if my partner doesn't stop the charge etc.

3. The addons you use should be plenty enough, you can use interruptbar too and add some of the defensive's if you like. I also use an addon that tracks my jade spirit/proc trinket/cloak enchant procs to line up crazy dark souls.

4. Saccing your pet against most lock teams is usually fine, you probably want a pet against a team with a mage though because MLD etc has so much cc you will want to be able to spell lock while feared etc. Notable comps that saccing is good against: LSD, Shadowcleave, WLS, LSD2, most ele comps in general.

5. Glyph of CoEx can be huge against this comp because you can gate and basically stick the warrior in place even if he leaps as long as you aren't in LoS of charge. If they kill your pet more than once bring out a voidwalker and start disarming recklessness etc. Another thing you need to get used to is playing with a voidwalker in general. Against KFC's you should more than likely just start with one, if you feel confident you can start with an observer, but if they kill it just switch to VW immediately. They pretty much can't kill it without tunneling it and with good pet control and coordination from your healer you pretty much can't die to cleaves.

6. DR in a nutshell: Each person has a set of diminishing returns for each school of CC. For a warlock you have several different DR's including fear, stun, and horror. Once you have feared someone their DR kicks in and the next fear will be reduced by 50%, then 75% and so on until they're immune. Basically you cut the duration in half each time you do it. It's not exact but its something like 8s -> 4s -> 2s -> 1s - >immune. DR's reset after a spell in that school hasn't been used on that target for 15 seconds so basically if you fear something for 8 seconds and they sit the whole thing you have to wait 15 seconds after the end of the fear until fearing again for it to be 8 seconds long again.

Simplified: 8s Fear -> Fear ends -> Wait 15 seconds -> DR resets -> 8s Fear.

Heres a list of DR schools: http://www.wowwiki.c...nishing_returns

As for when to use fear... as often as possible pretty much in this state of the game at your mmr. You're playing at low enough ratings that you'll just get miracle fears from spamming it so much that you don't really have to set much up, just try to follow the fear with a hex or cyclone for your kills etc. As you get better you'll start to understand when fears are important based on what cooldowns and trinkets are available.

7. Best way to approach every single comp as LSD is to just do as much damage as you possibly can while staying alive and maintaining good positioning. Pretty much your job is to just keep the main target fully dotted and as many off targets as you can dotted so you can get some rot going. Your ele should be peeling for you and healing when necessary so your druid can get clones off. Fear as much as you can and don't think that the warrior is totally immune to fear because he only gets 6s of immunity every 30 seconds so for 48 seconds per minute he is fearable. Clones are healers without trinkets win games so you need to coordinate that with your druid, and try to use your symbiosis heal on cooldown.

8. CoEn on healers is too much micromanagement unless they're a shaman or something, just fear them a lot. CoEn on other warlocks and most casters is a very good habit to get into though because LSD is all about slowing down the other team and trying to overpower their healing with constant spread pressure. Curse of Elements on kill targets is pretty much standard.

9. Basic LSD from your pov is the Dark soul on cooldown and keep the whole team dotted, the only cooldowns you need to worry about from your ele are stormlash and ascendance. If your druid plays with heart of the wild they can do some major damage too ie. 100k wraths. A lot of your kills will come from your ele getting a bunch of instant lava burst procs while you have the healer feared/stunned/hexed/cloned.

Just remember that your comp is about doing damage while staying alive. Don't push in for big howls unless you know you're going to be safe and always communicate defensive's with your team. Your games are going to be long and grindy against many teams so expect to be turtling until dampening comes up for many teams. Don't get overeager or overextend and if you make mistakes it's okay because your comp can always pull back and not be behind. Gate often against cleaves and use your port wisely.

#3 Infernion

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:00 PM

1: Coil, will help you set up kills or longer CC as it doesn't DR.

2: Yes of course, any gateway is better than no gateway :) If you can't stop it at the top, just make one from the bottom, even from the starter room to the other side if you are not confident you can stop the other team. You can always try to get a new one after a while.

3: Only addons I used was gladius, omniCC and interruptbar, with some practice you'll get used to somewhat tracking defensive CDs on your own. You should drop the gladiatorlossa tbh, your awareness will eventually get better that way, and it seems very distracting.

4: I play sac pet 99% of the time against dot cleaves. Having to go for pet resses all the time makes you lose a lot of DPS.

5: I feel like many (low rated) Locks neglects the importance of curses. You can use glyphed CoEx against warriors, and remember to swap curses a lot depending on the situation. CoEnfeeble is also very important. Warriors are annoying as a warlock, but mages shouldn't be able to kill you.

6. Get DR tracker for your gladius. If you fear one player, THAT player will be on DR. If warlocks can't keep track on their fear DR, they wont get high rated. Spam fear all day and Watch DRs. Don't Waste DRs, as the enemy will just swap something and pop CDs if you can't peel it.

7. Set up kill with stun->coil->blanket CS->fears-->hex-->clone etc.

8. No you're not. It's situational, I tend to use CoEnfeeble a lot, especially against specs like ele shaman and warlocks. If you have great pressure you can use CoE though.

9. Druid stun, NS, Hex, Stormlash, Ascendance, HotW etc. Ask your partners if you're unsure :)

Fakecasting is something that'll come along the way, no one went from low to glad in one day :) Getting a gate is your teammates job just as much as it's yours. If they don't stop the opponents, you wont get one. Tell them how important their help is, and remind them ;)

When you play LSD, you pretty much have to play PvE. Just spam damage, keep dots on all targets and wait for your shaman to win the lottery. Try setting up kills with stun->coil->blanket cs, fears, hexes and clones. Get help from your druid and be very vocal. Call what targets you're dotting up, what targets you're fearing, rotate your defensive CDs well with your druid. Remember to fear a LOT, and predict and call swaps from the enemy team.
You need to land a lot of CC on the enemy healer, and peel a lot for your teammates. Fear is your best friend! :)

Edited by Infernion, 01 February 2014 - 09:13 PM.


#4 DarkWolf

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:47 PM

For LSD or LSD2, is there any advantage in playing Affliction or Destro, specially now after the tongues nerf?

#5 Infernion

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

View PostDarkWolf, on 02 February 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

For LSD or LSD2, is there any advantage in playing Affliction or Destro, specially now after the tongues nerf?

I'd play affliction for both, although LSD with destro can be quite fun :)

#6 Eckbok

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:07 AM

First of all, a huge thanks to you guys who responded - the advice I got has already improved my play.

A question I forgot to ask is another pretty noobish question, and i'll do my best to make it not sound so open ended:

How do you guys handle focus targets?

I rarely if ever use a focus target, as I am often using the bars on gladius to manage my fears/silences/dots/etc. I have been avoiding using focus play out of sheer laziness, but after watching a few lock streams I quickly realized they all use focus utilities and tons of specific macros for focus targets.

Do you use a shortcut to create a focus target at the start of the match? What abilities (besides fear/spell lock) do you macro to affect your focus targets?

As always, I wouldn't ask if I didn't know.
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#7 Regent

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:18 AM

Fear
Soulburn/swap
Havoc
Spell Lock
Curses
Death Coil

You can set focus with macros or right clicking Gladius, both are fairly even in timing. I suppose the best way would be to have macros to focus each arena1, arena2, etc but then you would have to find keybinds for them that would be easy to get to - probably on your mouse.

I'm not entirely convinced that using pure focus macros for everything is even the best thing to do. Maybe its just my keyboard and onset arthritis in my left hand, but I find I can get similar speeds using mouseover/gladius and then I dont have to worry about what to do if I play 5s or 2s.

Edited by Regent, 08 February 2014 - 11:47 PM.


#8 Eckbok

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 08:53 PM

Fast question again:

Is there any way to macro my fear in a way where if I hold shift it will cast fear on my focus target?

I.e.: my "R" fears my current target,

can I macro something into it to cast a fear on my focus target when I hold shift?


Thanks in advance :3c
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#9 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 08:56 PM

View PostEckbok, on 08 February 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Fast question again:

Is there any way to macro my fear in a way where if I hold shift it will cast fear on my focus target?

I.e.: my "R" fears my current target,

can I macro something into it to cast a fear on my focus target when I hold shift?


Thanks in advance :3c
#showtooltip
/cast [modifier:Shift, @focus,exists,harm,nodead] Fear; Fear

=)

View PostRegent, on 06 February 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'm not entirely convinced that using pure focus macros for everything is even the best thing to do. Maybe its just my keyboard and onset arthritis in my left hand, but I find I can get similar speeds using mouseover/gladius and then I dont have to worry about what to do if I play 5s or 2s.
how would having arena 1 2 3 macros affect your ability to do 2s? =D

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 08 February 2014 - 09:00 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#10 Filthpig

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 09:10 PM

I personally use 5 macro's for fear which is probably 2 too many, but I have Arena123/focus/target. Reason being is i use 90+ binds on most characters and sometimes its faster for me to press one of the other two rather than repositioning my hand for Arena123. That sounds completely stupid and I should fix it.


I haven't used a razer naga, but if you have arthritis it might be something worth looking into.

#11 Hackattack3

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:11 PM

Couple players already made some great points.  Just wanted to chip in with a few things:

1.  macros & binds - There seems to be a fad with keybinds at the moment.  People to bind anything and everything and have tons of modifiers.  Some people can pull off 60+ binds but you have to be careful that it does not affect your movement and positioning.  I've had healers that brag about 70+ binds but they have trouble strafing and kiting pressure/cc because they are not efficient movers.  TL;DR macros are good but do not over-do it.

2.  LSD or LSD 2.0 - death coil all the way, shadowfury DRs w/ stuns and death coil sets up a nice lock out for healer swaps.  

3.  Tracking DR and enemy CDs - Several people already made great points about DR and even gave you DR lists.  Gladius is all you need to keep track of your important DRs, fear + silence.  Same concept here as in #1, you don't want to over-complicate things and fill your screen with addon fluff if it blocks your vision of the map.

#12 Infernion

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:58 PM

View PostEckbok, on 06 February 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

How do you guys handle focus targets?

I rarely if ever use a focus target, as I am often using the bars on gladius to manage my fears/silences/dots/etc. I have been avoiding using focus play out of sheer laziness, but after watching a few lock streams I quickly realized they all use focus utilities and tons of specific macros for focus targets.

Do you use a shortcut to create a focus target at the start of the match? What abilities (besides fear/spell lock) do you macro to affect your focus targets?

I've bound focus 1 2 3 on alt+1, alt+2 and alt+3. I target with f1, f2 and f3. I target my own teammates using my mousewheel, so i can spam rejuv. You should really get used to always managing focus and optimize your gameplay so you don't have to click anything, not even the gladius bar. People can get used to clicking some things and make it work, but in the end having keybinds for everything is the most optimal, it just takes some time getting used to in the beginning.

Managing your focus is super important for your awareness aswell, as it helps keep track of buffs, debuffs and castbars.

I haven't really played since the first few weeks of the season, but in my opinion you should have focus for:

CoEx and CoEnfeeble
Soul Swap
Fear
Spell Lock
Pet dispell (could make this the same bind as your imp dispell on healer)
Coil
Havoc

Another tip for limiting swapping targets is to have mouseover banish and fel flame. This helps a great deal, and mouseover fel flame is soooo amazing for taking out totems :)

Edited by Infernion, 08 February 2014 - 11:41 PM.


#13 Chanimal

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:59 PM

always play shadowfury with LSD. It's the best spell in the game.

bash is unreliable and even if your ele is using totem projection, shadowfury is still good to cc healer / break things up.
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#14 Eckbok

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:07 AM

Doing the best I can, all of this advice has helped me out immensely but the 3's i've done are very, very hard and unforgiving. I hit close to 1900 but ended up with 1818

It was just one of those days, I guess :c
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#15 Eckbok

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:08 AM

View PostEckbok, on 09 February 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Doing the best I can, all of this advice has helped me out immensely but the 3's i've done are very, very hard and unforgiving. I hit close to 1900 but ended up with 1818

It was just one of those days, I guess :c

Mostly just being absolutely trained by KFC, over, and over, and over, and over again.
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#16 Regent

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:50 AM

Just keep at it. Always think about how you can improve. Up until a certain point, always look at yourself first because eventually when you split ways with your current partners you will only take with you what you learned.

#17 crsdfr

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:33 PM

View PostEckbok, on 09 February 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

Mostly just being absolutely trained by KFC, over, and over, and over, and over again.

I know them feels friend. Had exactly the same shit all weekend at 1800 scrub tier.

I'm not sure what I should be doing. I'm trying to hold cd's but the damage I take is so fucking obscene, it just takes one good silence/stormbolt/wyvern and I have to pop everything to survive it... And Im dead on the next CC chain. If I try and kite the all the fuckin mongo on top of me, healers go crazy about line of sight There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point trying to kite the Warrior because he'll be on me again milliseconds later anyway. I'm kind of left to stand there and eat shit the entire game while the healer pisses mana into me until eventually one of us runs out of cd's and I just die.

Part of it is probably the 1800 shitter tier, where the DK or Warr on my teams seem in-fucking-capable of anything but mindlessly tunneling damage into something, standing idle by while TSG or KFC violate me. I can still put some damage out, but I'll never force D Stance with it, especially with HPals shitting out DR's - It just seems impossible to switch the momentum around at that point to get a kill.

#18 Hackattack3

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

View PostEckbok, on 09 February 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

Mostly just being absolutely trained by KFC, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Taking a peak at your profile, 574 ilevel?  Damn dude you are a beast.

Also when is KFC killing you?  In the opener or grinding you down after a couple of minute?  You could try unending resolve glyph (10% passive) it's pretty solid when paired with soul link.

#19 Eckbok

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:05 PM

View Postcrsdfr, on 09 February 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:



I know them feels friend. Had exactly the same shit all weekend at 1800 scrub tier.

I'm not sure what I should be doing. I'm trying to hold cd's but the damage I take is so fucking obscene, it just takes one good silence/stormbolt/wyvern and I have to pop everything to survive it... And Im dead on the next CC chain. If I try and kite the all the fuckin mongo on top of me, healers go crazy about line of sight There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point trying to kite the Warrior because he'll be on me again milliseconds later anyway. I'm kind of left to stand there and eat shit the entire game while the healer pisses mana into me until eventually one of us runs out of cd's and I just die.

Part of it is probably the 1800 shitter tier, where the DK or Warr on my teams seem in-fucking-capable of anything but mindlessly tunneling damage into something, standing idle by while TSG or KFC violate me. I can still put some damage out, but I'll never force D Stance with it, especially with HPals shitting out DR's - It just seems impossible to switch the momentum around at that point to get a kill.

You basically just described every game i've had past 1750, to the T. If KFC by some miracle doesn't kill me in an opener, they will easily catch up to my gate and finish me off in the 2nd cc chain. Lastnight was horrible because I had pugged really experienced players for LSD, gotten blow up in an opener by KFC and the 2.4k alt resto druid pushed blame on me for the loss even though my gate, portal, and defensives were all on cooldown, while in sight of him. It kind of sucks the fun right out of 3's for me.
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#20 ottishen

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:30 PM

View PostEckbok, on 09 February 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

Mostly just being absolutely trained by KFC, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Facing KFC is really hard, but if you are playing LSD, I'd say you can do a lot if you just practice a bit. The shaman being able to ground traps and tremor out of fears and Wyvern Sting really helps to ease the pressure. Making sure that you have good communication with your healer is another thing that helps out, if you overlap your defensives you will fall pretty far behind.

Getting used to those things should be enough to live through the initial pressure, after that, it's up to you to be able to turn it around. The biggest problem I have with KFC is that even after the situation is more or less cleared up, we continue to run and kite, and we aren't able to turn it around for the next round of cc from the hunter. Somehow you need to get your dmg out even though you are being pressured, and then your ele can get his dmg out and they will not be able to play as offensive as they want to.





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