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Games like Arena but not shit?


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#21 abtronic

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:36 PM

BLC was a fucking incredicble game. Got really repetative, and as someone said previously you ended up fighting the same people over and over. I was ready to give that game a real go, but it never took of. Then I quit and Hafu won tournies : )))))))
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#22 BalanceRexxar

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

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#23 Regent

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:06 PM

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If there was a modern version of ~2006 PKing RS... :wub:
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#24 Velayn

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:37 PM

If there was a modern version of ~2006 PKing RS... :wub:


Jagex made 2007 RS servers.

so yeah
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#25 Regent

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:32 AM

Jagex made 2007 RS servers.

so yeah


Yeah, but the graphics make my eyes bleed.
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#26 inclyne

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

real life


yea real life arena if you're somehow living in ancient rome
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#27 flannelsoff

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 01:06 AM

chivalry best game
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#28 Regent

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 01:21 AM

chivalry best game


I've tried the game but can't really get into it. It always seemed really laggy, plus the lack of ranked support.
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#29 drcrck

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:21 AM

I've started developing the game you want! 

 


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#30 drcrck

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 05:15 AM

New video:


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#31 Konjunktur

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:04 PM

Problems:

 

Aiming your dps/healing rotation in WoW:ish arena.

 

Less abilities than Legion.

 

Worst graphics ever.

 

Terrible map design (a fucking hole in the middle, wat?).

 

Players are "hard objects" that you cant move through (lol @ physically blocking swaps to weak targets - castercleaves galore).

 

Add more abilities, fix the graphics and remove the "aim to hit people" thingie. Then obviously the GUI needs to be customizable because the current GUI looks like ass, sorry (but that's a secondary thing, and not for a beta). Also a good DR system and a CD sharing system needs to be implemented (if you didn't already). And when I say good, I mean something similar to WoW's old DR system with multiple categories. Not something like what all the scrubs suggest where "all cc should share DR" or similarly stupid ideas.

 

Regarding aiming, WoW PvP is great because of the tactical awareness, executing a complex dps/healing rotation (compared to other pvp games) properly and planning out CC chains and the team coordination required to do so. It's not good because of twitch reaction and predicting lag so your aim hits properly (actually "aimed spells" is one of the worst things with WoW arena).

lol no.


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#32 drcrck

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:47 PM

Add more abilities

Action bar has 20 slots and every class will have exactly 20 active abilities (including talents), I think it's enough
 

Also a good DR system and a CD sharing system needs to be implemented (if you didn't already).

 

DR works the same way as it works in WoW (with same categories and 20s duration)
CD sharing is implemented, but there are no spells which use it yet

 

 

 

Players are "hard objects" that you cant move through

You can
 

Regarding aiming, WoW PvP is great because of the tactical awareness, executing a complex dps/healing rotation (compared to other pvp games) properly and planning out CC chains and the team coordination required to do so. It's not good because of twitch reaction and predicting lag so your aim hits properly (actually "aimed spells" is one of the worst things with WoW arena).

 

Aiming is not as hard as you think
Wizard fireballs explode like rockets in q3
Many spells (like Warlock's Corruption or Wizard's Freeze) are casted on ground with targeting circle, like AoE spells in WoW
Melee classes don't need to aim at all, they just cleave all targets in front of them
I'll make a post about aiming and differences from WoW later
 

a fucking hole in the middle, wat?

As I see many people don't like that hole so I think I'll cover it with something 
 

the current GUI looks like ass

At least I'm working on it
WoW arena GUI didn't change since it was added


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#33 Siuox

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:51 PM

Action bar has 20 slots and every class will have exactly 20 active abilities (including talents), I think it's enough

 

brngWoWRecap012.jpgbrngWoWRecap015.jpg


Edited by Siuox, 06 September 2017 - 02:54 PM.

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#34 Konjunktur

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 04:09 PM

Action bar has 20 slots and every class will have exactly 20 active abilities (including talents), I think it's enough
 

DR works the same way as it works in WoW (with same categories and 20s duration)
CD sharing is implemented, but there are no spells which use it yet

 

You can
 

Aiming is not as hard as you think
Wizard fireballs explode like rockets in q3
Many spells (like Warlock's Corruption or Wizard's Freeze) are casted on ground with targeting circle, like AoE spells in WoW
Melee classes don't need to aim at all, they just cleave all targets in front of them
I'll make a post about aiming and differences from WoW later
 

As I see many people don't like that hole so I think I'll cover it with something 
 

At least I'm working on it
WoW arena GUI didn't change since it was added

Aiming isn't necessarily hard, it's just annoying and a bad mechanic in a game like WoW Arena.

 

And yes, I'm fully aware that there are many spells that use aiming in WoW, and I said they're one of the worst aspects of the game (especially when expected to be used without any sort of help, ie WoD binding shot->trap compared to MoP scatter->trap). Everyone universally hates failing an aim because "lag" and "something made my camera angle fuck up and now I can't hit it" etc.

 

Built-in AoE cleaving into the DPS rotation is also one of the worst aspects of WoW PvP since it frequently breaks CC and basically de-values CC. Maybe your version doesn't hit CCed targets, but it sounds very weird.

 

Also, the WoW UI has changed several times, on top of that the WoW GUI is fully customizable.

 

Also idk what happened to my original post that "lol no" was not supposed to just be in there, I wrote these things but for some reason they got cut:

 

 


Just use regular MMO targetting, allow for easy arena123 binds and be done with it. I'm 100% sure a game like this will fail if you have to aim almost all your spells. Just imagine WoW without targets and just aiming everything - I think almost everyone would think it to be pretty darn bad. Don't try to be a MoBA and a WoW Arena game at the same time, it's not going to work.

 

Is this a single person project? Please tell me it's a company or at least a team. Because if it isn't, it will never get polished up to a releasable state. All solo projects of advanced multiplayer games like this never get released. Frankly, it's impossible to release a good multiplayer game with any sort of depth to it as a solo project. Please prove me wrong, but I have my doubts.

 

All in all it looks interesting, but yeah obviously needs a lot of polishing.

 

PS: When it comes to "Champion" design, implement the "PvP specs" first. When I say PvP specs I don't necessarily mean the specs that have been good in PvP but the ones with a high skill cap, the ones which didn't just rely on damage to win. That's also one of the major issues with WoW - it has far too many "spam damage and win" specs, and since they exist and eventually end up as t1 the meta ends up being really bad (meleecleave meta of last season for example). In WoW this is inevitable, because there are 36 specs and a lot of them aren't PvP specs, at all. So, my advice is to stay away from implementing classes that are similar to Holy Paladin, Warrior, Frost DK, DH etc, and implement the high skill cap specs instead such as Frost Mage, Affli Warlock, Sub Rogue, Feral, Disc Priest, MM Hunter, Resto Druid & Shaman etc. (Obviously WotLK/Cata/MoP versions of said specs and not WoD/Legion but yeah).


Edited by Konjunktur, 06 September 2017 - 04:10 PM.

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#35 drcrck

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2014/november/brngWoWRecap012.jpg
media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2014/november/brngWoWRecap015.jpg

How many times did you use combat res, aquatic or fly form in arena? Moonglade teleport? Okay, excluding completely useless abilities, what about all these feral skills you didn't actually use because casting moonfire+wrath did 200% more damage?
Of course resto druid had more than 20 useful abilities in WotLK, but far less than 57
 

Aiming isn't necessarily hard, it's just annoying and a bad mechanic in a game like WoW Arena.

May be
We are going to test it these weekend with 6 real players, without bots
I'll post a video

PS Targeting is already implemented in engine, so I can switch to WoW-like system in 1-2 days

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#36 Konjunktur

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:51 PM

Is that the art style you're going for? I realize the graphics is obviously nowhere near where it's "intended to be", but is that the general style you're aiming for? Humanoids and very realistic (not cartoony or similar) - or is it just placeholders?

 

Also, about abilities:

 

5-6 buttons for DPS rotation leaves 14-15 abilities for utility/defensives/offensives/cc.

 

Lets look at WotLK and take for example Feral Druid (WotLK), I've removed the ones that weren't "necessary" and that can be cut without impacting the spec too much, also I've assumed forms are removed and everything is usable in "human form" (to cut down on keybinds):

 

Bash

Abolish Poison

Remove Curse

Barkskin

Berserk

Tiger's Fury

Pounce

Cyclone

Dash

Demo Roar

Entangling Roots

Faerie Fire

Feral Charge

Mark of the Wild

Healing Touch

Hibernate

Innervate

Moonfire

Wrath

Prowl

Regrowth

Rejuvenation

Lifebloom

Powershift-like ability (due to removal of forms)

Maim

Survival Instincts

Tranquility

Frenzied Regenration + Bear Form replacement defensive

 

As you can see it's easily ~35 keybinds. Some could potentially be cut (don't need Wrath, only need 1 of Regrowth and Healing Touch, Lifebloom is not vital either, nor is Demo Roar, abolish poison and Remove Curse could be merged into 1 ability) so could potentially get down to ~30, and then Feral is one of specs with the most keybinds but I'm fairly certain you can't create a class that feels complete in WoW Arena with <25 keybinds, or you're going to get Legion 2.0.


Edited by Konjunktur, 06 September 2017 - 09:46 PM.

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#37 Phatkat

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:27 AM

I think the 3rd person crosshair aiming could be an interesting mechanic, but if you're looking at having a game that feels anything like WoW 3s, tab targeting or some sort of similar lockon mechanic is needed. Aiming like in a shooter is just so far a departure from simply pressing globals it doesn't really fit. Nobody can have 100% perfect aim so you'd need to balance around that. And imagine a hunter trying to kite but needing to keep his crosshair on the enemy to do damage, you'd be relegated to backpeddling.

 

Also, even if everything else was 1:1 in translation, all melee attacks basically being cleaves would be incredibly gamechanging by itself.


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#38 drcrck

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:27 PM

New short video:
 
 
If you want to participate in beta testing, fill this form: goo.gl/forms/IYSAQtiRXQVY2B192
Sorry I cannot post links  :mellow: You can copy it manually or open this video in new tab and click on link in description

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#39 Konjunktur

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:05 AM

 

New short video:
 
 
If you want to participate in beta testing, fill this form: goo.gl/forms/IYSAQtiRXQVY2B192
Sorry I cannot post links  :mellow: You can copy it manually or open this video in new tab and click on link in description

 

Other than the lack of actual targetting, blocking abilities with your body and the low amount of abilities/champion it looks good.


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#40 Warmonger_Skulm

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:51 AM

While there is a discussion about targeting, I think the aim factor MAY (please notice I said MAY with caps) allow a player to bring more "skill" to the table. Let us just consider the most "skill based" game in competitive gaming. Of course some will say Starcraft, some will say Dota etc. but for me, it is undoubtedly CS. The reason for CS being so skillcapped is not a complex issue. First, the aim factor (under the aim factor, you have branches such as spray control, tapping, range, positioning, reflex, etc) allows players with better aims to excel against others (excluding teamplay here) and second, the mindgames in CS allows players to combat mentally as well (teamplay, fake strats, fake sounds, fake flash, split tactics, fake sprays, fake reloads, smoke rushing etc.)

 

As you can see, while the aim itself of course brings a higher skillcap, it is these mindgames what makes a game so entertaining. You see these top level mindgames in Dota, LoL, Starcraft, CS:GO, apart from the actual hard-earned skill itself (aim in cs is hard earned, just like the micromanagement and teamplay in Dota, LoL, [no teamplay in SC but it is the king of micromanagement]).

 

Then on the other hand, you have the WoW arena. I am not going to bash it here, but it is certain that there is a group of players (including myself) who like the concept of 3v3 PvP in an arena setting. While many games tried to take it to a next-generation level, many failed, and this should be a lesson to be learned by potential developers and potential next-generation systems.

 

Frankly, I think the creator of "The Arena" game is doing a good job. Of course, there is room for improvement, and it is probably why he/she is posting here, to get feedback.

 

Let me speak about the aim factor first, I think while the aim in a 3rd person setting could be good, it could also be devastating as well, in terms of game fluidity. The reason is simple, lack of control. As certain posters pointed out, aim has to go hand in hand with movement/positioning, so a hunter kiting and trying to hit a target at the same time will have a much harder time vs certain classes. There should be a reward for accomplishing such a challenge, or the game itself should have more fluidity. This is the main reason that CS is far better compared to CoD etc. In this case, I will draw an example from WildStar. I know it couldn't kill WoW etc. but it introduced lots and lots of interesting/fun stuff alongside with potentially good game mechanics. I will not advocate that the telegraph system is next-gen level, but it was a change from tab-targeting. In addition, there were certain spells which required tab-targeting. This mash-up of skills was most obvious in Esper class (in WildStar). The hybrid mechanism was actually good (again, I am not saying that the telegraph system is superior). Therefore, "The Arena" could distinguish between skills which require actual aim, vs skills which require tab-targeting. Both is skill, but one is aim, the other one is micromanagement. Since you are in between, why not introduce both, to create a higher skill ceiling while actually improving game fluidity ? Your unique hybrid mechanism could bring a next-gen level itself, if it is good enough.

 

In WoW, you have fake casting, positioning, movement (grip/blink) etc. Try to find ways to bring more interesting / better mindgames with your game. I read that Ridtur mentioned body blocking. In this game, the first time I was watching it, I thought to myself : "If there is actual body blocking this could be good." Imagine what could body blocking potentially bring to your game. The level of teamplay would drastically improve, the actual positioning would matter. Your "mutant" class could accomplish more than just chasing someone to death (I know it as fear/CC etc but imagine if the mutant could actually take the hits via positioning, and if there are skill based purely around this concept). Certain classes could have certain spells such that body-blocking would actually benefit them offensively etc. Therefore, I think you are definitely adding a good element by introducing the body blocking.

 

Another alternative would be introducing a synergy between aimed and targeted targets. You could create a mechanism such that it would allow more synergy in combination with aim based spells + tab-targeted spells.

 

Cosmetics is also important. For example, if you get blinded, the whole screen should go dark, but you should still be able to move and attack (with a reduced hit rate of course). In addition, as a FRP guy myself, I am going to say this but please don't burn me, but polymorph should not break on damage :)

 

Your game looks a bit grim, it reminds me more of a Mortal Combat/Prototype mash-up. If this is the message you'd like to convey, then bring more reflex-related, reaction based skills, and make it look more violent, more aggressive.

 

However, speaking from my own experience, colours are good. Colourful games are more stimulant compared to grim looking games (there are several papers on this issue). So, if you could introduce a bit more colour/maybe also in a cartoony fashion, your game will do better against aging.

 

In summary, there is potential in this game. I hope you will make it more user friendly while creating more depth in the actual skill-level itself. I have some ideas, and this post is waaaaaay too long anyway, but I wish you good luck with your project.


Edited by Warmonger_Skulm, 15 September 2017 - 01:59 PM.

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