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#61 Vallok

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:29 PM

How to stop RMX opener as KFC - Wyvern rogue, silence mage, stormbolt trap druid, scatter rogue's trinket. Make sure your shaman stands in flare GG.

#62 jaimex

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:33 PM

no im not jamIep

and thats thinking your warrior can move to actually stormbolt.

#63 Glink

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:36 PM

View PostArtofmage, on 03 January 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

Yes there is, rmp is so cd dependant, when u run out of cds u lose, such as vanishes or have long time for orb and dance etc.
If u fuck up their opener, by just silencing mage out of stealth or spam stun/ scatter rogue, they r forced to use some cds on another target few seconds later, and u'll end up sacrificing ur ccs/cds in order to save ur teammate.
All in all, u just have to live their cds and u win, it's obvious as hell when an rmp is swapping nowadays and u can easily stop it(not talking about having a rdruid instead of priest cuz i never play with druids).I could give u a good tip on how to fck up rmp/rmd too as a hunter.
Good rmps want to fear ur pet and u , because most of the hunter's don't even control their pet's properly, when u see a priest sprinting towards u with feathers, it's obvious that they r swapping on either ur healer or ur other dps, so instead of u getting feared u can just drag ur pet out of fear range and the priest will be forced to fear either u or the pet, which means that if he fears u then ull be able to sac the target they are going for , and if they fear ur pet then ull be able to peel for ur team.
^ Just one example on how easy it is to stop rmp swaps.
Thanks for those instructions, btw I don't know how it is on EU but no one really plays RMP, its RMD, which is a lot different.

I appreciate your help in telling me how to play my class but I beat RMDs all the time with whatever comp Im playing.

Btw, when coordinating any stormbolt -> trap as KFC vs RMD "ok bolt now...er wait cheapshot, ok now! Er wait disarmed...Now! Sotf Clone youre dead."

Literally all a rogue with a brain has to do is cheap shot or disarm or gouge or use anything to stop the hunter for a second when you see the hunter move towards the druid.

Edited by Glink, 03 January 2014 - 09:46 PM.

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#64 snugglebunny

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:49 PM

View PostArtofmage, on 03 January 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

lol at ppl saying mage rogue combination requires no skill and it's so faceroll, go play and see how faceroll it is.
It required , it requires and it will always require the most communication out of any other comps in order to obtain high rating.

This isn't 2009... we are playing Mists of Pandaria. I don't know how people can't just agree that both these comps are stupid, have tons of cc, and require no communication for the most part. WoW requires virtually no skill at all any more

#65 Zerud

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:39 PM

Does goat/fox debuff slow down globals aswell? Is this new? when did they change that?

#66 jaimex

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:39 PM

they always did that

#67 Crawthz

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:43 PM

View Postjaimex, on 03 January 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

they always did that

Changed in MoP, all cast-time-reductions affect Haste by reducing it by 25% in PvP. Reduced haste = slower GCD.

I wouldn't even mind the goat if it didn't reduce GCD or affect haste, but it's fucked up that you can have negative haste when having full haste reforged gear.
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#68 jaimex

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:47 PM

that too but the main thing is it effecting block/disperse/bubble.

#69 Jahmilli_

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

The main issue with SGX isn't the amount of instant CC it has, and it isn't the amount of damage it's able to put out. Multiple comps have more CC and more damage than SGX, but aren't nearly as strong.

The main issue with it is how difficult it is to control, and how little the classes have to do to avoid CC (compared to other comps). People just want simple answers as to why a comp is out of control, and usually those answers come out right as you die, that's when you're most annoyed. "I CANT EVEN FUCKING PLAY MY CHARACTER" or  "90K ICE LANCE WHAT A FUCKING JOKE." A lot of people don't really think of what goes on during the entire game, just towards the end when they're dead or about to die. From my experience it seems that most people (mainly casters of course) can't even think of the actual reason why SGX is so miserable to play against, but all of them know that they hate fighting it.


The shaman and the goat PASSIVELY (this is the worst part) make up for some of the biggest weaknesses of EVERY class, (excluding casters). The comp alone is the sole reason a lot of comps are no longer viable, and also the sole reason a lot of classes (mainly physical and healers) are viable.

- RET goat shaman (Ret easily controlled by casters / lacks CC)

- DK goat shaman (squishy / lack CC and mobility)

- FERAL goat shaman (Feral easily feared / very squishy outside of CDs / lacks CC)

- HOLY (Priest/Paladin) goat shaman (Priest and Paladin both easily controlled by casters)

- MONK (WW and MW) goat shaman (MW Monk easily controlled by non warlock/spriest casters, assuming they're undead.)
   (WW Monk unique playstyle / very squishy outside of CDs / lacks CC)

- HUNTER goat shaman (Hunter very squishy vs casters / easily feared)

Almost every spec above is NOT viable at a high level outside of SGX.

The hunter alone has enough CC to make up for any that his X lacks, and the shaman alone has enough ways to keep their DPS/Healer out of CC

Goat shaman (especially shaman) is also the bane of any wizard cleave, they are non-existent. The ONLY viable wizard cleaves are ones with shamans, and even those should get demolished by SGX.

The class simplifies and limits any comp its a part of, and any comp it plays against. There is only so much you can do... they lack depth.

Another one of the comps best qualities is how easy it is to maintain proper positioning in comparison to other comps. This mainly has to do with the shaman, and this is also my biggest issue with the class in general. Shamans are an extremely defensive class (If you ever play or watch any 3v3 game go to dampening, 99% of the time there will be at least 1 shaman in the arena), they don't really have any real CC, they are VERY disruptive, and they're the most difficult class to control. It's rare to catch a shaman out of position, because majority of the time there really is no reason to be. That's why I think it's much simpler to play any shaman comp than it is to play nearly ANY other comp in the game.

Being able to effectively use your healer CC offensively while maintaining proper positioning is a HUGE part of your teams success. Many healers and teams struggle with this.

You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective fears from your priest.

You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective clones from your druid.

You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective Hojs/fears/repents from your paladin.

You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective incaps/stuns/roots from your monk.

You WILL be competitive at a high level in arena without effective.... 45second CD hexes...... from your shaman.

Shamans do NOT CC, they PREVENT CC. They slow down the tempo of every arena they enter. That's also another reason you won't ever see a high rated shaman comp without some kind of cast reduction spell (Curse of enfeeblement / Goat / Mind numbing) on their team. They need to slow games down and simplify them as much as possible in order to win. That's also why they are so weak against melee cleaves, or just any melee in general. (there is no ability you can press to reverse bloodlust a melee class).

Not to mention they walk in arena with a PASSIVE damage and healing buff to everyone on their team. Grace of Air (3000 mastery)

I'm not sitting here saying it is unstoppable. I am saying that the amount of effort and coordination required to win games, in comparison to every other comp in the game, is much less as Shaman Goat, and I think every goat and shaman would agree that without each other, they wouldn't have nearly as much success in arenas.












and foxes

Edited by Jahmilli_, 04 January 2014 - 12:27 AM.


#70 jaimex

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:12 PM

jahmilli not biased at all i see

#71 Jahmilli_

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:13 PM

I also believe that comps like goat shaman, or mainly just shaman tongues in general, are the reason damage modifiers are so out of control. If you cannot win without consistently landing CC (something that is VERY difficult to do against any shaman team), then how are you supposed to ever beat it? Over the top burst windows.

You cannot tone down one without toning down the other.

#72 Glink

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:25 PM

RLS has a goat w/ nerve strike (Mind Numbing). So shouldn't that comp have super slow tempo vs anyone they face? I mean, it definitely seems to when you face a good one.

Infact nerve strike alone slows down the tempo of the game more than goat since it affects physical damage classes AND casters and the uptime, while not 100%, is every single rogue stun DR'd or not. I would estimate my fox get's CCd more than a rogue does since its not getting dispelled, it doesn't have cloak, and it doesn't have any mobility other than auto attacking and running to targets.

Every single time im 1/4th DR cheap shotted as a peel, I lose 50% dmg for 6 seconds (and 10% less healing). I'd rather have -30% bloodlust that only affects casters than -50% damage that affects entire team with a rogue who knows how to abuse it.

like I said, yes uptime is less since ultimately you can't have everything stun DR'd all the time, but when its needed for peels it can be abused to slow down the game way more than goat ever could.

I would happily give up my fox/goat forever if nerve strike was removed.

EDIT: @Jah: If it is true what you say, that shamans and goats slow down the tempo of the game, is it really unfair to say that there should be something to slow it down? When there are comps like RMD in the game with all the retarded things I mentioned earlier, seems like there should be some sort of way to slow it down or else it would be completely undefeatable.

Edited by Glink, 03 January 2014 - 11:42 PM.

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#73 Tsx

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:29 PM

View Postsnugglebunny, on 03 January 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

This isn't 2009... we are playing Mists of Pandaria. I don't know how people can't just agree that both these comps are stupid, have tons of cc, and require no communication for the most part. WoW requires virtually no skill at all any more
im not saying the opposite, mop skill lvl is like 10 times lower than wotlk was, but its the synergy of the 2 classes will always be higher than any other's, call it personal opinion, call it however u want to .

#74 Tsx

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:32 PM

View PostDahjy, on 03 January 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Stopping an RMD opener? Hahahahahhah you must have autism,  you do know subterfuge and block immune is in the game right?
if a mage is that stupid to waste block in the opener(Such as Mitchjones as ive seen couple of times doing), then ur twice as stupid for not being able to kill him 30 seconds later.

#75 Tsx

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:36 PM

View PostGlink, on 03 January 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Thanks for those instructions, btw I don't know how it is on EU but no one really plays RMP, its RMD, which is a lot different.

I appreciate your help in telling me how to play my class but I beat RMDs all the time with whatever comp Im playing.

Btw, when coordinating any stormbolt -> trap as KFC vs RMD "ok bolt now...er wait cheapshot, ok now! Er wait disarmed...Now! Sotf Clone youre dead."

Literally all a rogue with a brain has to do is cheap shot or disarm or gouge or use anything to stop the hunter for a second when you see the hunter move towards the druid.
i just told u an example of how to easily stop a mage rogue x as a hunter, that can be done as any other class too.
U know, rmp was actually stronger last season than this, but never shined because of ferals dominating.

#76 Glink

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:40 PM

View PostArtofmage, on 03 January 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

i just told u an example of how to easily stop a mage rogue x as a hunter, that can be done as any other class too.
U know, rmp was actually stronger last season than this, but never shined because of ferals dominating.
Yes I know what you said...I do that every single game except I do it better. Silence mage, sleep healer, scatter rogue, pet sac + freedom their kill target. I can tell you for a fact that the "opener" isn't what decides the game. All the "opener" means is that if the RMD gets a good one you lose 100%, if you peel the opener (which you can never do, even if rogue dances right out of stealth and I scatter it he has 4 seconds on dance, silencing mage when he pops out does nothing other than stop his first cast or PoM, and wyvern on druid is only to stop an initial cyclone) you still have to be defensive since the RMD has huge damage still, and really, they almost always do.
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#77 Aldrainíl

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:43 PM

id like to add its also not necessarily difficult to beat shaman goat as wmx/rmx, it's just extremely unfun and also have to try way harder to win games than goat shaman will ever have to

#78 Schvetolga

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:44 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 03 January 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Changed in MoP, all cast-time-reductions affect Haste by reducing it by 25% in PvP. Reduced haste = slower GCD.

I wouldn't even mind the goat if it didn't reduce GCD or affect haste, but it's fucked up that you can have negative haste when having full haste reforged gear.

Cause mages dont cast hehehehehe. MoP <3
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#79 Crawthz

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:55 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 03 January 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Cause mages dont cast hehehehehe. MoP <3

Global Cooldown, you dumb fuckin cunt. I don't just afk in arena, every time I press any of my buttons, it triggers a GCD. Ever heard of it?
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#80 Jahmilli_

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:57 PM

View PostGlink, on 03 January 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

RLS has a goat w/ nerve strike (Mind Numbing). So shouldn't that comp have super slow tempo vs anyone they face? I mean, it definitely seems to when you face a good one.

Infact nerve strike alone slows down the tempo of the game more than goat since it affects physical damage classes AND casters and the uptime, while not 100%, is every single rogue stun DR'd or not. I would estimate my fox get's CCd more than a rogue does since its not getting dispelled, it doesn't have cloak, and it doesn't have any mobility other than auto attacking and running to targets.

Every single time im 1/4th DR cheap shotted as a peel, I lose 50% dmg for 6 seconds (and 10% less healing). I'd rather have -30% bloodlust that only affects casters than -50% damage that affects entire team with a rogue who knows how to abuse it.

like I said, yes uptime is less since ultimately you can't have everything stun DR'd all the time, but when its needed for peels it can be abused to slow down the game way more than goat ever could.

I would happily give up my fox/goat forever if nerve strike was removed.

EDIT: @Jah: If it is true what you say, that shamans and goats slow down the tempo of the game, is it really unfair to say that there should be something to slow it down? When there are comps like RMD in the game with all the retarded things I mentioned earlier, seems like there should be some sort of way to slow it down or else it would be completely undefeatable.

I've played a number of rogue comps as the rogue... RLS, priest thug, shaman thug, RMPala, RMD, RMP. Granted i'm not nearly as experienced as other rogues but i've played all of them against the best comps and teams. SGX and RLS were by far the easiest and most simple for me to play.

And like I said in my 2nd post, I understand a lot of it is required right now, because of the amount of damage modifiers that are in the game, I think both are out of control. But regardless... I still think its much more difficult and enjoyable to play a faster paced game with a balance of control, burst, and consistent damage, rather than a slower one with much less CC, much less burst, and much more consistent damage. When classes and comps are limited like that it becomes much more difficult to overcome counters and comes down to more of a comp based game more than anything else.

Edited by Jahmilli_, 04 January 2014 - 12:01 AM.





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