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Mastery vs Crit


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#1 Dubsidia

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

Trying to Figure out if Crit or Mastery is better, playing Kitty cleave at the moment.

Does mastery give an advantage vs comps like RMx or is it just overall beneficial.

Not fully geared, also think mastery scales better than Crit.

#2 Depression

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:01 PM

gem 80 int 160 crit in all yellow and red sockets and in green go with more crit. Reforge your spirit and haste into crit. On pieces that already have crit then reforge off the haste or spirit into mastery.

The absorbs can be purged off. With so much insta burst being able to crit a ton helps keep your team up because there is so much damage you can't really stack the absorb up past like 15k. + The bigger crits give you bigger absorbs anyway then non crits that have more mastery. And being able to crit almost all the time coming out of CC is so clutch.

Spirit is way overrated on holy paladins this season I run with 5.9k spirit and I never oom. Matches last between 0-8minutes. Just go with as much output as possible.
If the square peg won't fit in the circle then you are not smashing them together hard enough.

#3 Dubsidia

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:53 PM

Then why are 9/10 of the top hpals on ladder running mastery?

#4 Depression

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:48 AM

#1 and #2 and #4 are all Elite so he obviously does each stat priority the same. So that really counts as 1 person and he plays with Mastery and spirit.

#3 and #5 and #6 #8 #9 and #10 play with crit

#7 plays with Mastery

So 2 people out of the top 10 play with mastery and 6 prefer crit. If you want to count each of Elites toons as different people then that is 6-4 in favor of crit.

Also if you look at how the people who play with Spirit/Mastery reforge and gem and gear it is extremely inefficient. I have no doubt that they are more skilled in a arena match than I am but I do not understand their choices at all.

On my Paladin I still have 5 Tyranical pieces and I have 5972 spirit, 21.94% mastery and  24.92% crit.
The top paladin in the US has  11714 spirit, 22.28% Mastery and 15.37% crit.

Now with all of that being said and after reading many posts on AJ from other paladins who say that spirit is a joke and that even with a minimal amount of spirit they do not oom. Is having more than 6k spirit and .34% mastery better than having an additional 9.5% crit when in reality by the time I am done with this toon Ill have at least 13% more crit. So most paladins do not oom with 7k spirit,and I do not oom with 5.9k either so the way I see it is, .94% mastery vs 9.5% crit and counting. Also by the time im done all have more mastery.

Whats more beneficial if geared, gemd, and chanted efficiently, to maximize output? Crit by far.
If the square peg won't fit in the circle then you are not smashing them together hard enough.

#5 Ragnarzor

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:11 AM

I go with mastery because during CD's you can get some pretty good shields out. If you stack your shields properly you can sit more CC and don't have to rotate your CD's as fast.

Crit is really good with fast games, but I like mastery and spirit for longer games, especially against goat shamans.

But in the end it is all personal preference. If you find you are losing games because they go until you run out of CDs then maybe mastery is for you.

#6 Holypalaswe

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:22 AM

So I realize AJ is probably the worst place to talk about theorycrafting, seeing as the response crit vs mastery is "I have to go crit to keep my team up" every season since s7.

But I found it interesting that when you group with someone that has 5% spell haste buff you're very close to the first haste breakpoint for EF. I used mr robot to get the best reforge/gem together with going for mastery (yes not crit :rolleyes:) and got my haste to 1 hasterating above softcap with only a gem & 2 reforges out of the ordinary.

Anyone else tried this seeing as we all got the exact same gear, I haven't had time yet.

Spoiler

Edited by Holypalaswe, 30 January 2014 - 02:48 AM.


#7 Gollak

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:41 PM

Hey everyone,

My preference is full on crit. I am sitting at around 29.4% crit unbuffed and really notice the difference. Crit leads to bigger heals, more mastery as my heals are bigger when I crit and hasted Divine Lights from HS crits so it gives you a lot of bang for your buck. As many have mentioned with bursty dps and the amount off cc in pvp small windows off healing are crucial so I feel more comfortable know that in that small window I have a higher chance of burst healing my team mates. Regards to spirit it is way overated. I sit at 6621 spirit and I have never run oom in an arena match. With team mates peeling enabling the odd drink also it's better to focus on throughput.

My Holy Pally if your interested in my setup, gear etc.
Gollak on EU Alliance Defias Brotherhood. Human in a guild called Myth.

Hope that helps.

#8 Markpally

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:30 AM

I run Int>spirit>crit>mastery>haste. Mastery actually doesn't scale that well because after battle fatigue, the difference between a full shield while geared mastery and a full shield gearing full crit isn't that big or significant. Gearing crit will give you more Infusion of Light procs from Holy Shock and will ultimately help tremendously in keeping your team up through heavy burst while avoiding being interrupted. You can still go Mastery, but the way damage and CC is right now, you'll mostly likely find yourself falling behind in healing if you don't have any CDs because you won't get nearly as many crit heals and your shields will still get eaten through very easily.

#9 Souki

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:49 PM

I started running Kittycleave a few days ago, and its working out great so far.

A lot of Paladins are going for Crit, which is the best stat imo.  With Kittycleave, you get the 5% Feral crit buff.  So I decided to stay around 25% crit. So that brings me to around 30% crit in game.

I also reforged as much mastery as possible from spirit and I'm around 27%.

I don't have a lot of spirit, only 6k. But running Kitty, I expect most games to end in less than 2 minutes if we play really offensive.  

So far its a good build for this comp, and I already hit 2350 with the comp. I'll keep messing around with it.

Edit: I forgot to mention that my 27% mastery is AFTER my might buff.  I'm normally around 21-22% mastery.

Edited by Souki, 03 February 2014 - 09:52 PM.


#10 Rallo

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

I recently reactivated my subscription, I've been watching people all over the brackets and what I don't understand is why Mastery.
The question is why people like Elite is reforging mastery when as far as I know it almost doesn't do anything, as far as I saw the absorbs are very low, around 20k top.
If someone can provide a more in-depth explanation of why certain paladins go Mastery it'll be appreciated.

Edited by Rallo, 09 March 2014 - 09:43 AM.

jaime maek goodest post

#11 glonglon

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

Hi Rallo,

I also noticed that some high rated Hpallys are reforging for mastery. I'd say It's mostly personal preference, crit and mastery playstyles are both viable.

Your stats priorities as holy are  :

Crit=Mastery>Spirit (until comfortable)>Haste.

Max out Crit or Mastery according to your playstyle, then about Haste I don't find it to be very valuable as Holy due to the fact that you mostly use instant spells however I know that some paladins like to reach breakpoints for Eternal Flame.

You should read the third page of the excellent Don corleone's thread, people talk about stats priorities and you'll probably learn a lot of things :

http://www.arenajunk...ns/page__st__40

Hope this helps,
Regards.

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#12 Rakanichu

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:43 PM

I'm experimenting with a int crit mastery haste spirit setup and using the glyph that returns mana on holy shock crits. I think this glyph will outperform the flash glyph at this season's crit levels. More crits equals more divine lights and less flashes. I can't think the flash glyph is anything more than a 3% output increase. Compare that with another 8-10% in mainly haste from reforging out of spirit and buying different off pieces. And you can run both glyphs against many comps.

I think crit has over taken mastery since eternal flame dot change and the need for quick throughput from back to back crit holy shocks and divine lights. Or it will when 550 weapons come.

Edited by Rakanichu, 09 March 2014 - 05:51 PM.


#13 glonglon

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:41 AM

View PostRakanichu, on 09 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I'm experimenting with a int crit mastery haste spirit setup and using the glyph that returns mana on holy shock crits.

Must be interesting. Worth a try.

I noticed that as holy you can play with very little spirit as long as you don't spam flash heal.

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#14 Souki

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:25 PM

My last post in this thread is almost 2 months old and from a different season. I really think mastery is the best stat for Holy Paladins this season. With the right gear and reforging Hpals can get a lil over 40% mastery with Might buff.

I see a lot of top Paladins reforging spirit to like 12k+. Why? I never go oom with less than 8k.

Crit is nice, but Holy Shock already has baseline crit + your own crit. Maybe I'm missing something here?

Haste is a waste, sure we get more EF procs but who cares?  

I'm not full Prideful yet, but I noticed a big difference the other day healing 3s when I started to drop crit and go full out mastery. Those shields can get really big fast. I'm also doubling 2nd place heals in every rbg group I've joined so far.

Try it out and tell me what you guys think. Its a really fun build.

#15 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 11:17 PM

Well I doubt you're doubling the healing of others in RBG because of the shields. You have to remember only like 10-15% of your healing is from illuminated healing, no? Mastery does nothing for EF ticks, so I'd argue haste for X ticks and int/crit would be better.

I never liked being dependant on RNG in 3's or 5's, I always went for haste and mastery. As you said, we have decent amount of crit already baseline.




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