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Haste vs Mastery for affliction

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#41 etox1

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

As long as there are goats and rogues haste feels shitty

#42 abtronic

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:03 PM

i was reluctant to trying haste at first, felt like the percentage based damage loss would be a lot bigger, but after trying, I agree with what most people said in this thread, haste rox
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#43 Torotornot

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:20 PM

View Postabtronic, on 02 January 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

i was reluctant to trying haste at first, felt like the percentage based damage loss would be a lot bigger, but after trying, I agree with what most people said in this thread, haste rox

Agreed.

#44 Shaderz

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:26 PM

Even in RBG's?  I would feel the mastery is better than haste in rbgs due to the fact is you're constantly switching targets, soul swapping, CC'ing healers.  I soulburn dots and soul swap when I can but CC'ing healers after a few swaps is a must for me.  Therefore those dots need to hit as hard as they can.  Arena, I'd say Haste is better due to the fact you're not spreading AIDS to as many people as quickly.  Maybe i'm wrong but who knows.  Just my personal thoughts.  As of now i'm going with mastery.

#45 Filthpig

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:48 PM

View PostShaderz, on 02 January 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Even in RBG's?  I would feel the mastery is better than haste in rbgs due to the fact is you're constantly switching targets, soul swapping, CC'ing healers.  I soulburn dots and soul swap when I can but CC'ing healers after a few swaps is a must for me.  Therefore those dots need to hit as hard as they can.  Arena, I'd say Haste is better due to the fact you're not spreading AIDS to as many people as quickly.  Maybe i'm wrong but who knows.  Just my personal thoughts.  As of now i'm going with mastery.

Haste = faster globals, lower cast times, more dot ticks.
Mastery = slightly more damage on dot ticks.

So for rbgs that means with haste you dot more targets, get more soul shards, faster fears... In exchange for a little bit of damage. Haste is clearly better.

#46 Shaderz

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:12 PM

....Touche sir.

#47 Accelerator

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:35 PM

Hey guys, sorry to reopen this

Has there been any change to Haste vs Mastery while being able to cast faster by default?  I personally feel like i can actually cast now while praying that i wont be interrupted, a bit more successfully.

Also curse of elements glyph, yay or nay?  I feel it saves a few globals, making it a great 3rd glyph now.
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#48 Molga

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:44 AM

Yeah, I also want some clarification on this topic from some of the top tier players.

I've tried both and I just felt like I did more damage with mastery, so I switched back. There are a few top players still spec'd mastery, but it looks like the majority have decided to go for haste.

I even had some guy refuse to play with me because I "wasn't geared for affliction".

I guess the big question is, why is it worth it to give up 20% dot damage in exchange for 10% faster dot ticks plus 10% globals/casts? Does it depend at all on playstyle and comp, or is haste clearly better?

Especially now with the nerf to cast speed debuffs, doesn't it make mastery even better?

#49 Persephones

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:13 AM

It's pretty hard to theorycraft which stat is better. Mastery might give more damage in a freecasting scenario, but you could argue that Haste allows you to finish casts faster, which means you can get into a better position faster or get that crucial fear off. On the other hand in the scenarios where you can't cast whatsoever, haste is pretty much entirely useless.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#50 Nadagast

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:04 PM

View PostAccelerator, on 13 January 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Hey guys, sorry to reopen this

Has there been any change to Haste vs Mastery while being able to cast faster by default?  I personally feel like i can actually cast now while praying that i wont be interrupted, a bit more successfully.

Also curse of elements glyph, yay or nay?  I feel it saves a few globals, making it a great 3rd glyph now.

My stat rankings haven't changed since the tongues nerf.  CoElements glyph isn't good enough to be worth a glyph slot in most situations.

I'd love to hear a convincing argument as to why stat weights should change with the tongues nerf.

I suppose that one argument to be made in favor of less haste now is this:
When warlocks have done all they need to do, DoTs and debuffs applied everywhere they want, and all that's left to do is malefic grasp, that's essentially wasted time.  We'd so much rather be fearing or DoTing things with our time, because MG sucks.  So if the tongues nerf means you spend more time in this "I'm done with my important tasks, let me cast my shitty filler" state, then I could see that as being a point in favor of more mastery now, to make you spend less time in shitty-filler state, and make (some of) your important globals bigger.  But I don't think we're in that state enough to make mastery better than haste.


View PostMolga, on 23 January 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Yeah, I also want some clarification on this topic from some of the top tier players.

I've tried both and I just felt like I did more damage with mastery, so I switched back. There are a few top players still spec'd mastery, but it looks like the majority have decided to go for haste.

I even had some guy refuse to play with me because I "wasn't geared for affliction".

I guess the big question is, why is it worth it to give up 20% dot damage in exchange for 10% faster dot ticks plus 10% globals/casts? Does it depend at all on playstyle and comp, or is haste clearly better?

Especially now with the nerf to cast speed debuffs, doesn't it make mastery even better?

I don't think feelings are a good way to go about picking a stat.  The differences are too small, and humans have too many biases for that to be worthwhile.  You have to do the math.

If you read my post on page 1 of this thread, you'd see that you don't give up 20% dot damage for haste.  It's more like 2-5%, depending on buffs.  IMHO, haste is still better than mastery.

#51 Thasta

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

I think if anything the nerf to cast speed reduction abilities makes haste even more effective

#52 Molga

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:00 PM

View PostNadagast, on 23 January 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

I don't think feelings are a good way to go about picking a stat.  The differences are too small, and humans have too many biases for that to be worthwhile.  You have to do the math.

If you read my post on page 1 of this thread, you'd see that you don't give up 20% dot damage for haste.  It's more like 2-5%, depending on buffs.  IMHO, haste is still better than mastery.

Thanks a lot for the response Nadagastt. I guess I'll have to save some gold and gem back haste.

And I didn't mean for it to sound like I hadn't read your other post, I should have worded it "20% mastery" instead of "20% dot damage".

View PostThasta, on 23 January 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I think if anything the nerf to cast speed reduction abilities makes haste even more effective

Yeah, I can see that argument. In the other thread on this topic though, Blukstak said something along the lines of you always wanna stack haste against tongues teams. Because haste is percentage based, it will shave off even more cast time because the casts are longer. Therefore, if tongues teams aren't as good, you'd think that mastery would become marginally better.

#53 Bluckstack

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:18 PM

View PostNadagast, on 23 January 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:


I'd love to hear a convincing argument as to why stat weights should change with the tongues nerf.


Haste reducers such as tongues, mind numbing and goat didnt work like -25% haste, in fact they worked as -25% haste + -25% of your previous haste, now its the same tongues do not reduce 10% haste it reduces around 10% haste and another 10% of your previous haste, its not the exact number but if you check it yourself you will see my point. Haste reducers work reducing haste by not only a constant but a % of your haste, then stacking haste vs teams with tongues/mind numbing etc its more useful than before since they reduce less haste.

It doesnt change that much tho, but in the past vs kfc for example i never aimed for full haste while not playing with a haste buffer, nowadays i do, i go full haste vs them no matter what.

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Edited by Bluckstack, 23 January 2014 - 10:21 PM.


#54 Nadagast

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:15 AM

View PostBluckstack, on 23 January 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Haste reducers such as tongues, mind numbing and goat didnt work like -25% haste, in fact they worked as -25% haste + -25% of your previous haste, now its the same tongues do not reduce 10% haste it reduces around 10% haste and another 10% of your previous haste, its not the exact number but if you check it yourself you will see my point. Haste reducers work reducing haste by not only a constant but a % of your haste, then stacking haste vs teams with tongues/mind numbing etc its more useful than before since they reduce less haste.

It doesnt change that much tho, but in the past vs kfc for example i never aimed for full haste while not playing with a haste buffer, nowadays i do, i go full haste vs them no matter what.

#gethaste #swag #yolo

Yeah, I knew about that.  Sorry, I should have been more clear, I meant an argument in favor of mastery because of the haste nerf.

#55 dredhed

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:48 AM

With all the locks being haste now UA is back to being spam dispelled. Actually considered going back to mastery just for this reason. It fucking sucks.

#56 KaelenaXOXO

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

A lot of discussion between haste vs mastery and it's pretty much just being summed up by personal preference. Right now I play mainly Mastery after hitting a haste breakpoint and typically I find it works really well. I can maintain dots even when trained (with the use of the occasional soulshard), but will struggle to land a fear unless I SF -> fear the healer assuming he is in a bad position.

I find that dispelling my UA is very punishing and won't happen more than once in the game, so I presume as stated above - it's something healers will just continue to dispel assuming it does minimal damage (e.g. haste)

7078 is a haste breakpoint for Corruption which I think is really important to go for regardless if you're Mastery > Haste. The chance at an extra Soulshard is very appealing and I find it frustrating when I see decent players having just under 7000 haste as Mastery.

I'm interested in trying Haste primarily because I'm always the train target and the fears would help me get more pressure up, as opposed to the slight damage increase from Mastery. Only thing that deters me is I'm actively switching between Destro/Afflic for 5s/3s respectively and Haste seems terrible for Destro so I'd have to accumulate more gear, or sac playing Destro for a while :<
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#57 Nooborghini

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:51 AM

View PostAccelerator, on 13 January 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Hey guys, sorry to reopen this

Has there been any change to Haste vs Mastery while being able to cast faster by default?  I personally feel like i can actually cast now while praying that i wont be interrupted, a bit more successfully.

Also curse of elements glyph, yay or nay?  I feel it saves a few globals, making it a great 3rd glyph now.

Nay on the glyph, I've been testing Haste/Mastery.

Mastery is good until you get full glad gear.

Most people go Mastery then stop at 7078 for the haste cap or go straight Haste.

Going straight haste, you NEED 10k+ to > Mastery w/ 7078 IMHO.

#58 Tronux

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

You can use my spreadsheet to calculate damage differences, just put in values from mrrobot and use your brain.

https://docs.google....drive_web#gid=0

#59 Maleficent

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:44 PM

Just a random tidbit but the new PvP gear is on the PTR and I went full Haste and was able to reach around ~13k Haste and actually hit the 13717 breakpoint for an extra tick of Corruption. Didn't look at Mastery stacking but full Haste felt really good and fluid; the shard generation was a lot higher too. 1.28 Fear cast time lawl.

Not sure if this is relevant but the new gear levels offer more in-depth playstyles - Haste vs Mastery.

#60 KaelenaXOXO

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:11 PM

View PostKaelenaXOXO, on 28 January 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

A lot of discussion between haste vs mastery and it's pretty much just being summed up by personal preference. Right now I play mainly Mastery after hitting a haste breakpoint and typically I find it works really well. I can maintain dots even when trained (with the use of the occasional soulshard), but will struggle to land a fear unless I SF -> fear the healer assuming he is in a bad position.

I find that dispelling my UA is very punishing and won't happen more than once in the game, so I presume as stated above - it's something healers will just continue to dispel assuming it does minimal damage (e.g. haste)

7078 is a haste breakpoint for Corruption which I think is really important to go for regardless if you're Mastery > Haste. The chance at an extra Soulshard is very appealing and I find it frustrating when I see decent players having just under 7000 haste as Mastery.

I'm interested in trying Haste primarily because I'm always the train target and the fears would help me get more pressure up, as opposed to the slight damage increase from Mastery. Only thing that deters me is I'm actively switching between Destro/Afflic for 5s/3s respectively and Haste seems terrible for Destro so I'd have to accumulate more gear, or sac playing Destro for a while :<

Decided to test Haste. Currently sitting at around 10,370 and it feels a lot smoother. Fears are so much easier to cast, I can maintain dots consistently without having to rely on Soulshards and overall just feels a hell of a lot easier when being tanked by melee. The lack of Mastery doesn't feel as bad when playing with a Shaman too, so from personal experience I'm saying, based on puregameplay w/o number crunching, I prefer Haste

>was just an update
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