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Haste vs Mastery for affliction

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#21 Hawtzz

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:11 AM

tried a few games with pretty much the perfect haste set up

http://us.battle.net...nimals/advanced

don't think theres anything wrong with it (although i do have blacksmithing, which gives me 640 haste to reach that 11,205 breakpoint with demon soul. if you don't have blacksmithing or jewelcrafting you need to break the socket bonuses in legs + chest + gloves to get it, which i don't think is worth)

i enjoy it thoroughly... im converting to haste. my dps was the same, if not better and the faster globals + casts are so good

the only thing i dont like is ua dispel being weaker

that's my armory link above ^ if you have BS or JC to get the 640 haste, if not, my alt lock with engi/tailoring so you can copy set up:

http://us.battle.net...zeemdr/advanced

Let me know if you see anything wrong


The only thing you could do better for your lock is to replace the orange gems in your chest and your legs with +160 expertise and +160 haste. Then reforge your chest from crit > mastery instead of crit > hit.

This would net a loss of 160 intellect for 350 mastery (which is far surperior since 320 mastery gem > 160 int gem and in this case you would be gaining 350 mastery!)

Literally every lock should use askmrrobot it takes care of everything PERFECTLY for you.

Heres the link for your character specifically -- http://www.askmrrobo...drius/chanimals
You will end up with 5.99% hit if your uncomfortable with that .01% chance of missing a fear then ur setup is fine.
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#22 Chanimal

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:30 AM

The only thing you could do better for your lock is to replace the orange gems in your chest and your legs with +160 expertise and +160 haste. Then reforge your chest from crit > mastery instead of crit > hit.

This would net a loss of 160 intellect for 350 mastery (which is far surperior since 320 mastery gem > 160 int gem and in this case you would be gaining 350 mastery!)

Literally every lock should use askmrrobot it takes care of everything PERFECTLY for you.

Heres the link for your character specifically -- http://www.askmrrobo...drius/chanimals
You will end up with 5.99% hit if your uncomfortable with that .01% chance of missing a fear then ur setup is fine.


I'd do that but that 0.01% chance always happens at the worst times
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#23 Accelerator

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

I'd do that but that 0.01% chance always happens at the worst times


Thanks Chan,

I tried it out yesterday as well. Very undergeared, but I loved the faster gcds. I'm going to stick haste as well. Was kinda disappointed seeing 4k agony dot ticks but oh well, we cant all be warriors.
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#24 JaK91

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:05 PM

mop is weird

Edited by JaK91, 11 December 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#25 Accelerator

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

Off topic question, but what are the locks top comps in order from best to less. In you guys opinion?

I was thinking of LSD, WLS this season
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#26 Hackattack3

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:57 PM

Interesting discussion,


Pure math, working through simcraft, http://simulationcraft.org/ (I know I know pve =/= pvp but I am looking just pure damage) mastery will just barely beat out haste but to the point where it's not noticeable.

Only time I could see noticing a difference stacking haste is if you are getting trained, can't cast anyway and max mastery will help putting out at least some pressure.

If you have time to stand there and cast by all means go HAM with haste.


Edit: Haste vs mastery discussion will also be affected by which meta you are running.

I also don't know why everyone is so concerned with 6637 for UA and 4717 for corruption. How often do you really just apply a set of dots? You apply double duration dots when you get a trinket proc, on use, or pop DS. People should be looking at +30% haste cut offs and x1.5 duration cut offs to really see what they are getting from haste.

Example:

w/ 30% haste (meta or DS)
4th tick of UA is 4198, you would have to go up to 8647 to get a 5th tick, so that magic 6637 number buys you nothing.

Extended duration:
When you re-apply UA (base 14 sec) due to CDs and procs, it extends to 22 sec. To get a 3rd extra tick during extended UA you need 7180 haste.

All of these minor haste cutoffs due to pandemic and haste procs is why people see a smooth increase in damage when adding haste, not a huge spike when certain breakpoints are hit (like 6637 for UA).

http://www.askmrrobo...rlockaffliction

Edited by Hackattack3, 11 December 2013 - 10:06 PM.

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#27 Accelerator

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

Interesting discussion,


Pure math, working through simcraft, http://simulationcraft.org/ (I know I know pve =/= pvp but I am looking just pure damage) mastery will just barely beat out haste but to the point where it's not noticeable.

Only time I could see noticing a difference stacking haste is if you are getting trained, can't cast anyway and max mastery will help putting out at least some pressure.

If you have time to stand there and cast by all means go HAM with haste.


Edit: Haste vs mastery discussion will also be affected by which meta you are running.

I also don't know why everyone is so concerned with 6637 for UA and 4717 for corruption. How often do you really just apply a set of dots? You apply double duration dots when you get a trinket proc, on use, or pop DS. People should be looking at +30% haste cut offs and x1.5 duration cut offs to really see what they are getting from haste.

Example:

w/ 30% haste (meta or DS)
4th tick of UA is 4198, you would have to go up to 8647 to get a 5th tick, so that magic 6637 number buys you nothing.

Extended duration:
When you re-apply UA (base 14 sec) due to CDs and procs, it extends to 22 sec. To get a 3rd extra tick during extended UA you need 7180 haste.

All of these minor haste cutoffs due to pandemic and haste procs is why people see a smooth increase in damage when adding haste, not a huge spike when certain breakpoints are hit (like 6637 for UA).

http://www.askmrrobo...rlockaffliction


Very interesting.

Do you guys apply dots twice before spreading? No right or wrong, but do you fellow locks do??

I personally try to cast the dots if things arent hectic, then sb soul swap then swap dots. Not always the case.
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#28 zenga

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:42 PM

I think you guys leave out quite an important factor into the haste vs mastery discussion: necrotic strike, rogue poison, curse, hunter pets ... i.e. cast slow.
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#29 stevieshankalot

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:44 PM

Off topic question, but what are the locks top comps in order from best to less. In you guys opinion?

I was thinking of LSD, WLS this season


LSD is very strong and easy to play (saying this from ele exp in the comp)

WLS is the same shit but gets countered a lot because of the resto shaman. TSG/WMD/KFC seem to dump on it.

Play LSD if you want serious rating.
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#30 Hawtzz

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

Like I said before... the only haste breakpoints that really matter in pvp are that of corruption breakpoints. And its not because of damage. Its because nightfall has a chance to proc everytime corruption ticks. Thus resulting in faster soul shard regeneration.... all other haste breakpoints are really irrelevant imo.

Also i believe RLS/LSD are the best lock comps at the moment MLS being a close third.

WLS was good at the start of the season when healers couldnt manage the damage without ooming, but now in full gear it doesnt seem to be nearly as good. Still not a bad comp though.
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#31 Damius

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:04 PM

Hmm...

I tried out full haste, but felt like i did quite abit less dmg - is the legendary meta mandatory for full haste to really work? And if so, how much work is it to get it? :)

I currently just play full griv mastery & pvp power-resi meta (tail & ench)
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#32 Filthpig

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:29 PM

Like I said before... the only haste breakpoints that really matter in pvp are that of corruption breakpoints. And its not because of damage. Its because nightfall has a chance to proc everytime corruption ticks. Thus resulting in faster soul shard regeneration.... all other haste breakpoints are really irrelevant imo.

Also i believe RLS/LSD are the best lock comps at the moment MLS being a close third.

WLS was good at the start of the season when healers couldnt manage the damage without ooming, but now in full gear it doesnt seem to be nearly as good. Still not a bad comp though.



Is RLS even viable? I don't think I've seen a single one.
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#33 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:45 PM

Is RLS even viable? I don't think I've seen a single one.

rogues dont only work with mages, surprisingly :)
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#34 Chanimal

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:05 PM

Off topic question, but what are the locks top comps in order from best to less. In you guys opinion?

I was thinking of LSD, WLS this season


RLS is the best comp by far.

It's the only comp where I've felt like I can beat most comps pretty easily - but I've only played one session of it (although fought a variety of teams and it seemed incredibly strong)

WLS and MLS are decent, but any good team that trains the shaman is so hard (WM / RM / Kitty) and shaman kfc is a problem for this.

LSD is decent as well, but rogue mage (rogue teams in general) are so hard for it. I don't think there's anything else that it really loses to, though.

Edited by Chanimal, 12 December 2013 - 09:07 PM.

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#35 Filthpig

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

RLS is the best comp by far.

It's the only comp where I've felt like I can beat most comps pretty easily - but I've only played one session of it (although fought a variety of teams and it seemed incredibly strong)

WLS and MLS are decent, but any good team that trains the shaman is so hard (WM / RM / Kitty) and shaman kfc is a problem for this.

LSD is decent as well, but rogue mage (rogue teams in general) are so hard for it. I don't think there's anything else that it really loses to, though.



Might have to check it out then, hard to base opinions of a comp on one session though. I feel like this might because a warlock vs mage issue though.
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#36 Hawtzz

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:09 PM

Yes, RLS is very good right now... most people just havent realized it yet.
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#37 Ghingis

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

I have played quite alot of games with both, and I can honestly say I rate haste way over mastery.
Makes my gameplay alot more fluent because of the lower GCD (it is very noticeable imo).

I dont really feel my damage going down that much, however I am playing WLS mainly, which means that the pressure comes from my warrior doing huge single target damage so the healer cant really heal his team effectively.

Feel as if tho haste just makes my gameplay alot more enjoyable. The DPS loss so far seems very small.
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#38 pbnewb12

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:15 AM

uhhh w hatttup!
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#39 Hackattack3

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:09 PM

Like I said before... the only haste breakpoints that really matter in pvp are that of corruption breakpoints. And its not because of damage. Its because nightfall has a chance to proc everytime corruption ticks. Thus resulting in faster soul shard regeneration.... all other haste breakpoints are really irrelevant imo.

Also i believe RLS/LSD are the best lock comps at the moment MLS being a close third.

WLS was good at the start of the season when healers couldnt manage the damage without ooming, but now in full gear it doesnt seem to be nearly as good. Still not a bad comp though.


Corruption is the least important haste breakpoint now with 5.4 changes. Reasons:

1. Nightfall only procs off the last applied corruption (10% chance) as per 5.4 changes.

2. Corruption by far the lowest damage dot, even with CoA ramp up time and de-curse spamming teams.


Haste vs mastery debate seems to be a matter of preference with more experienced players being able to benefit/feel the lower GCDs from haste stack.
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#40 Shaderz

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:48 PM

Awesome thread! Conflicting responses tho. Very good read regardless.
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