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Haste vs Mastery for affliction

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#1 Accelerator

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Hey guys,

Just wondering what the argument is for Haste > Mastery for some locks. Is it faster fears? Or is there some damage increase I am aware of.

Looked up locks like Nadagastt who are stacking pure haste like a pro.
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#2 Chanimal

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:33 PM

You get faster globals and slightly faster cast times (bit more than 0.1s i think off fear). You also get a few more dot breakpoints.

In return, you lose something over 20% damage from mastery.

IMO, it's not worth it because the DPS loss is pretty big, so only go haste if you really prefer the faster casts/globals
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#3 stevieshankalot

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:33 PM

yea faster fears which some locks prefer because of warriors... I personally think mastery is better but i guuess it depends on your playstyle.

outplayed by chanimal... standard.

Edited by Abolishedhey, 09 December 2013 - 02:36 PM.

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#4 Accelerator

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:54 PM

Thanks guys!

Thought as much, haste seems like so much of a loss of damage, wondering if the extra ticks will make up for it a little though. I will stick with mastery.

Last question,

Is it worth swapping jc for engineering for my lock? I know it's amazing for mage, but what about for affliction. Is the gain that big?
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#5 stevieshankalot

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

yea jc is best for most int classes imo.
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#6 dredhed

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:32 PM

Haste:
-chance to land fears that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to. ie just before an interrupt or just before the target runs behind a pillar.
-faster globals
-faster haunts (0.9sec w/ DS iirc)
-faster MG/drain ticks
-faster UA's = less reliance on soul shards to get a new row of dots up = more haunts.
-less lockouts
-lock damage sucks right now anyway - damage loss wasn't even that noticeable for me.
-heaps more fun to play

Mastery:
-More spread pressure.
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#7 Accelerator

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:58 PM

Mastery:
-More spread pressure.


Isnt this what warlocking is all about?
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#8 Filthpig

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

I think it really depends on what you play with. Shaman gives mastery AND haste so if you go full haste you'll still have 80%+ mastery and over 30% haste as opposed to 96%~ mastery and 15% haste.
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#9 Chanimal

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

Thanks guys!

Thought as much, haste seems like so much of a loss of damage, wondering if the extra ticks will make up for it a little though. I will stick with mastery.

Last question,

Is it worth swapping jc for engineering for my lock? I know it's amazing for mage, but what about for affliction. Is the gain that big?


Engineering/tailoring are your best professions.

especially so for locks, where procs are so important for soul swap

it's really not a big deal though, and tbh I'd rather be any other 2 professions because i'm lazy as hell and hate managing the procs

OH, mastery affects the damage UA does on dispel by 20% (or whatever number you lose from gemming/reforging haste).

Edited by Chanimal, 09 December 2013 - 05:08 PM.

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#10 Hawtzz

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:10 PM

I would only grab haste over mastery if you can reach an extra tick on corruption. This will cause nightfall to proc more = more soul shards.

Once you cant reach another haste breakpoint I think its more beneficial to then reforge/gem all the excess haste into mastery.

Heres breakpoints with various buffs etc: http://www.askmrrobo...rlockaffliction
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#11 Chanimal

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:26 PM

I would only grab haste over mastery if you can reach an extra tick on corruption. This will cause nightfall to proc more = more soul shards.

Once you cant reach another haste breakpoint I think its more beneficial to then reforge/gem all the excess haste into mastery.

Heres breakpoints with various buffs etc: http://www.askmrrobo...rlockaffliction


^

The haste you get with my gear setup is 6652, which, with the 5% haste buff reaches the UA breakpoint of 6637.

If you don't play with the 5% haste buff, you can get the next breakpoint at 7078 (a 320 haste gem and 160haste/80int gem)
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#12 Nadagast

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:29 PM

I think haste is better right now. The numbers, assuming 10k main stat, 6.5k secondary stat:
(edited--I made a maths mistake in an earlier version of them, SORRY! The numbers are closer w/o my mistake, but I think haste is still superior)

Without haste or mastery buffs:

Haste does 1.8% less damage per DoT cast, and 4% less DPS.


With just mastery buff:

Haste .8% less damage per DoT cast, and 3% less DPS.


With just haste buff:

Haste does 5.7
% less damage per DoT cast, and 4% less DPS. You'd need to be playing an unusual comp to have just haste. Mastery could be better here, though.


With haste and mastery buffs:

Haste does 4.8% less damage per DoT cast, and 3% less DPS. This would be the case in LSD. Mastery might be better here.




Obviously, with haste you cast everything 7% faster and get 7% more soul shards (I believe?). The damage numbers are pretty damn close, and in many of the common buff cases, I'd argue haste clearly wins. With a spell haste buff, the damage loss is more comparable to the casting speed increase, so I think there's more of an argument to be had there. Still, spell haste comps are rare enough (you basically need to be playing with an Ele/Moonkin/SPriest) that I think haste wins.

Mastery's best case scenario is in situations where you are essentially at 100% DoT uptime on all targets, which I would argue is not realistic in arena situations. Even in a super unrealistic 100% DoT uptime scenario, you could make a very strong case that 7% faster DoT application and fears, 7% more haunts, and less interrupts is worth a loss of ~3-4% DPS. Any situation where you don't have DoTs on all targets the entire game, the faster casting and DoT application of haste is a huge win.



Note that these numbers do not include ticks gained on DoTs extended to their 1.5x base duration limit with everlasting affliction. If I included those, the numbers for haste in spell haste buff comps would get a lot better, I think--depending on how often you DoT into DoTs to make a superstack.
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#13 Jeexlol

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:32 AM

What is the best for LSD do you think?

Edit: And how can I figure out the math for myself, single target vs. 2 targets vs. 3.
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#14 Filthpig

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:25 AM

What is the best for LSD do you think?

Edit: And how can I figure out the math for myself, single target vs. 2 targets vs. 3.


Read nadagast's post and you'll realize you have haste and mastery from the shaman. Haste is better.
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#15 Italialol

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

The difference between mastery and haste is insignicant assuming you can reach meaningful haste break points. However, mastery does not offer anything but damage unlike haste which is a better pvp stat overall.
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#16 Accelerator

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

Conflicting evidence from the top 2 locks right now lol :/

Honestly i'm guessing it's do whichever you like better then
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#17 Chanimal

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:23 PM

going to try haste now after speaking with nada

will report back
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#18 Bluckstack

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

i usually do like this:

- Only playing with haste in haste buff comp ( with ele boomer or sp) vs certain comps in which i need to be more useful ccin'g than doing dmg, for example vs mage/war, rogue/mage, in general setups that cant put tongues on me, and i always aim for some haste cap, in this patch 9778 is the haste cap to get +1 extra tick from corruption when playing with haste buffers.

- Out of that while playing with non haste buffers like warrior monk or mage i play with mastery and i try to get over 7078 haste, so i get +1 extra tick of corruption without losing a high amount of mastery.

The point of playing with haste while playing haste buff comps its because all the auras including demon soul doesnt give the real haste you see on the tooltip, demon soul gives ( 30% haste + 30% of your previous haste), same with aura from ele/boomer/sp, which make haste really useful,

I dont think stacking haste its worth it at all.
http://www.totemspot.../entry.php?b=44 here you can see the haste caps.

hope it helped

Edited by Bluckstack, 10 December 2013 - 07:32 PM.

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#19 Accelerator

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:08 PM

going to try haste now after speaking with nada

will report back


Please do! I will switch as well just for now to see what i think, atleast for gcd and all, im kinda undergeared for now
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#20 Chanimal

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:05 PM

tried a few games with pretty much the perfect haste set up

http://us.battle.net...nimals/advanced

don't think theres anything wrong with it (although i do have blacksmithing, which gives me 640 haste to reach that 11,205 breakpoint with demon soul. if you don't have blacksmithing or jewelcrafting you need to break the socket bonuses in legs + chest + gloves to get it, which i don't think is worth)

i enjoy it thoroughly... im converting to haste. my dps was the same, if not better and the faster globals + casts are so good

the only thing i dont like is ua dispel being weaker

that's my armory link above ^ if you have BS or JC to get the 640 haste, if not, my alt lock with engi/tailoring so you can copy set up:

http://us.battle.net...zeemdr/advanced

Let me know if you see anything wrong

Edited by Chanimal, 11 December 2013 - 12:12 AM.

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