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CCs in Warlords of Draenor, and Ghostcrawler's Departure


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#1 Vanguards

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

CCs in Warlords of Draenor

Official Blizzard Quote:

CC in Warlords of Draenor
We are planning to take a strong look at CC in Warlords with the intent of dialing things back a little. We do think it's important that players are rewarded for using CC intelligently (by coordinating usage, being mindful of diminishing returns, etc), but we think we can approach things in a way that allows us to tone down CC overall while still providing that gameplay.

Ghostcrawler's Departure

Official Blizzard Quote:

I was Lead Systems Designer most of the time I was on WoW. I split lead duties with Cory as Lead Content Designer.
Both of us reported to the Game Director, Tom Chilton, Kalgan. Nearly every decision any of us made was by consensus.

GC, you'll still be playing though, right? Also, it turns out all those players saying you played mage were wrong haha.
Yes, I'm not quitting the game. Just no longer designing it.

True. But how many universities and colleges had decent game development/software engineering programs 10-15 years ago?
First, I've been in this business for 16 years. Second, look at game devs you admire. How many have a degree in game design? Likely 0.
None. That is actually my point. What degree are we old farts supposed to have?
Gee, thanks for that. Nothing like insulting people you don't even know.
It wasn't intended as an insult. Degrees in game development are a pretty new thing. I am not.
I have one of those degrees. 4 shipped titles, 2 of which are Skylanders games. It sounds like the stuff I hear all the time.
That's awesome. I actually love Skylanders.

You'll find out my future plans soon enough. For now, let's let this be about World of Warcraft. Warlords is going to be SAVAGE and EPIC.
Any chance you will at least tell us if it is gaming related or not?
I'm not leaving the industry.

I would not expect many changes to the game as a result of my departure. We always design from a place of consensus and collaboration.

I'm just curious did you know about your departure from blizzard pre blizzcon?
Yes.

Are you going to stick around on Twitter in some form? Hate to see you disappear.
I'll stick around though I'm not sure my insights will be as valuable in the future.

do you think a game design degree is a bad idea?
No.

I wish you all the best... it's a shame Blizzard is losing someone as passionate as you. It won't quite be the same now
I appreciate it, but Blizzard has a ton of passionate folks. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving if WoW wasn't in good hands.

Greg will you stay with Blizz til WoD releases?
I'm afraid not, but it's in very good hands.

What is the 'feature' you were hoping for. Sans NDA. Thanks for making the best you could.
I can't tell you, because I hope they'll still do it!

Lots of things have been claimed as the imminent death of WoW, but this talk of you leaving is the first I actually believe.
No way. I'm very confident in the direction of Warlords. I'll be playing it with you guys.

A HOLY PRIEST?!?!
True story. Everyone seems to think I was trolling. My mage is like level 86.

good luck on your future travels. But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now? :P
They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

I am leaving on good terms with all of my friends at Blizzard and I'm still going to be playing WoW.
The internet loves to play detective, but in this case it was a great opportunity and time to move on. I wasn't fired or asked to step down.
And leaving certainly has nothing to do with the community. WoW has a great community. We never took you all for granted.
The next time someone kicks your butt in DPS, you can wonder... was that GC?


#2 Darksoldierr

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:38 PM

I think, i heard that before
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.

#3

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:57 PM

[quote]They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective. [/quote]

This!

#4 JamesDean

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:58 PM

The only thing I would ever love to know about WoW and the only question I would ever ask GC is...
Wtf happened at the blizzard office in s5 doing those 4-5 month it took place. It's still the most unanswered mysterium in the 9 years WoW have existed

#5 Feliclandelo

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

Good old AJ. Copy from MMO one day later.

#6 Namechangex

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:46 PM

They can always hire me, I blow pot24/7 very much creative. 460k a year plus benefits.
Please use an appropriate signature; thanks! Use only common abbreviations and acronyms, and then give their definition as soon after their first use as possible. Occasionally, however, an abbreviation or acronym may be so familiar to intended audiences that it may be used without a definition. In fact, some may be more familiar than the full name. http://www.arenajunk...-rules-2272014/

#7 Elorxo

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:11 PM

[quote name='Vanguards' timestamp='1386073309' post='4004593']
[size=6][b]CCs in Warlords of Draenor[/b][/size]
[blizz='[url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10717442112?page=4#62%27]"]http://us.battle.net...page=4#62'][/url][color=#D3D3D3]CC in Warlords of Draenor[/color]
We are planning to take a strong look at CC in Warlords with the intent of dialing things back a little. We do think it's important that players are rewarded for [size=5][b]using CC intelligently[/b][/size] (by coordinating usage, being mindful of diminishing returns, etc), but we think we can approach things in a way that allows us to tone down CC overall while still providing that gameplay.[/blizz]
[/quote]

was really hoping this would say casting :(((((((

#8 Snuggli

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:21 PM

[quote name='Feliclandelo' timestamp='1386075925' post='4004623']
Good old AJ. Copy from MMO one day later.
[/quote]

I presume there's a lot of the people who visit AJ that don't frequent MMO-C. Both are owned by curse so there is no harm in posting on both.

Edited by Snuggli, 06 December 2013 - 03:29 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#9 basanx

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:29 PM

'we gonna have to tone down the amount of cc in wod'

jk another marketing bullshit made by blizzard

#10 brbweed

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:59 PM

I´m hoping we´ll see change in amount of instant CC. It´s getting frankly ridiculous to see mage play style for example:
deep with fof, blanket into pom poly to healer while spamming instant dmg,,,,/clap gz for points.

Make casting cc and casting dmg more rewarding again plz.

#11 Farmboy

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:06 PM

[quote name='brbweed' timestamp='1386273545' post='4006150']
I´m hoping we´ll see change in amount of instant CC. It´s getting frankly ridiculous to see mage play style for example:
deep with fof, blanket into pom poly to healer while spamming instant dmg,,,,/clap gz for points.

Make casting cc and casting dmg more rewarding again plz.
[/quote]

Sadly with the amount of interrupts and mini stun/other bullshit I don't foresee this every happening until that changes.

#12 sarma

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:42 PM

Well first they need to remove or tone down all op spells that cause major balance problems in pvp (most of them are from mop)
Every op ability implemented in game on 1 class is act of agression to pvp balance and it calls imidiate reprisals on other classes geting imbalanced spells as well so they can compete.

Its a neverending circle.
Now everyone has everything and on top of that you cant even balance it anymore because some of them cant be balanced unless made pure garbage (cloak and dagger) some other spells are so long into game that you cant nerf them that easy since most people see them as core class spells .

HP pools , cc spells , dmg spells everything is pretty much too  much.
Too much abilities on action bars , millions of hp , millions of dmg numbers.
They need to nerf alot of things now if they want something atleast close to balance.
Ghostcrawler started this shit and it started growing slow on start then exponentially during expansions and now im mop it got out of hand.
Thats why he got fired.As its saturday afternoon and im bored enough ill list most of them that i can remember of



1.ibf stunbreak
2.desecrated ground
3.double grip
4.conversion
5.necrotic slowcasting part
6.Dematerialize
7.Glove bonus for monks
8.Nimble brew
9.Sparring
10.Rof
11.Deep freeze cd
12.Blanket 24 sec cd
13.Double interupt
14.Safeguard rootbreak
15.25% defensive stance
16.double time
17.MSR
18.shockwave and stormbolt not being in a same talent tier
19.second wind on < 35%
20.paralytic poisson
21.Subterfuge
22.Elusiveness
23.Howl and shadowfury not being in same tier
24.Demonic gate
25.Demonic circle teleport cd
26.24 sec cd blankets
27.Dispel imp
28.Tremor totem usable while feared
29.Shock and grounding cd
30.Totems with 24k hp
31.Healing stream
32.Healing output with passive/instant heals
33.ghost wolf negating effects of snares
34.shifting removing roots is fine , removing snares is a joke since day 1
35.Symbiosis
36.0.3 sec cast clones
37.Barskin and ironbark cd
38.Displacer cd
39.Cast slowing hunter pets
40.silence shot blanket
41.Psyfiend
42.Void tendrils not breaking on dmg
43.Feathers
44.Body and soul
45.Phantasm cd
46.Guise
47.double bop freedom and sac


I forgot some for sure


[quote name='brbweed' timestamp='1386273545' post='4006150']
Make casting cc and casting dmg more rewarding again plz.
[/quote]

You cant reward casting as mage (example) while warrior on you (example) has 2 reflects,2 pummels,2 charges and 2 stuns one ranged on 30s cd one aoe 40s cd and rootbreak

Having a warrior on you (example) and try to cast say it 1.5-2s casted spells is never going to happen unless warior has shit for brains


When you decide to play 2v2 on top of that warrior once again just an example you have a healer shaman with grounding and windshear resulting you want to kill yourself after 3 games of casting 1 spell per 30 seconds maybe

Then you decide to go 3s and have a hunter/war/R shaman as well on you in 3v3 resulting in 0 casted spells during match..while your healer is in insta cc 15 out of 30 seconds from hunter alone which btw does ranged instant dmg on you.

Is there a solution to this?

Yes.

1.Hunter loses his Trap launcher ,traps are made undispellable to compensate
2.warior is left with 1 pummel 1 charge and 1 reflect , safeguard no longer removes movement imparing effects
3.Rshaman got 1 min cd on grounding and 40 seconds on shear

Mages can cast again

Edited by sarma, 14 December 2013 - 04:28 PM.

Posted Image

#13 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:23 PM

[quote name='sarma' timestamp='1387035722' post='4012777']
Is there a solution to this?

Yes.
[/quote]
the solution is returning to the wrath/tbc model of promoting comp balance over individual class/spec balance, trying to make every single hybrid spec work for every single comp so you could "bring the player not the spec" was absolutely the worst thing they could ever have done for this game

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#14 JamesDean

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:39 PM

[quote name='Dizzeeyo' timestamp='1387048983' post='4012885']
the solution is returning to the wrath/tbc model of promoting comp balance over individual class/spec balance, trying to make every single hybrid spec work for every single comp so you could "bring the player not the spec" was absolutely the worst thing they could ever have done for this game
[/quote]

More specs were viable in wrath than today..

#15 ROKMODE

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:01 PM

Almost everything in glad/top 5 viable on AT wrath atm, which hasn't changed since before the trinket change as well

The only specs not viable or consistent are: holy, combat, demonology(?- idk cuz someone was rank 1 as prot pally demo rshaman for a week with a great win-loss a while back), survival, arcane, MAYBE fire (but it's still pretty impressive in some ways), fury, blood

If you are talking about balancing hybrids, I think wrath might actually have MORE that are viable atm than mop. Ele/enhancement/shadow/boomkin(not great)/feral (not great)/ret/prot are all glad viable and have been demonstrated as such
Also healer balance is much better in wrath atm than mop.



Now, viable doesn't mean balanced. As a boomkin player on wrath atm, I can easily say it sucks, but it can still work if you are good enough, and there are still obviously tiers. You can't really get away from that, no matter how good your game formula is. I don't think mop's problem is trying to balance everything. I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added. Together, it makes for a difficult experience to enjoy and balance.

Edited by ROKMODE, 14 December 2013 - 08:02 PM.

Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#16 Schvetolga

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:10 PM

[quote name='ROKMODE' timestamp='1387051303' post='4012912']
Almost everything in glad/top 5 viable on AT wrath atm, which hasn't changed since before the trinket change as well

The only specs not viable or consistent are: holy, combat, demonology(?- idk cuz someone was rank 1 as prot pally demo rshaman for a week with a great win-loss a while back), survival, arcane, MAYBE fire (but it's still pretty impressive in some ways), fury, blood

If you are talking about balancing hybrids, I think wrath might actually have MORE that are viable atm than mop. Ele/enhancement/shadow/boomkin(not great)/feral (not great)/ret/prot are all glad viable and have been demonstrated as such
Also healer balance is much better in wrath atm than mop.



Now, viable doesn't mean balanced. As a boomkin player on wrath atm, I can easily say it sucks, but it can still work if you are good enough, and there are still obviously tiers. You can't really get away from that, no matter how good your game formula is. I don't think mop's problem is trying to balance everything. I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added. Together, it makes for a difficult experience to enjoy and balance.
[/quote]

I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added

I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added

I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
v

Just wanted to highlight this part.
Posted ImagePosted Image

#17 seadogsnrebz

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:30 PM

[quote name='Urbandurban' timestamp='1387051838' post='4012924']
I feel like mop's issues all stem from cata's implementations and the overflow of new abilities they added
[/quote]

Also, the cooldown on dispell but no change to spammable roots or CCs.

#18 Schvetolga

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:18 AM

[quote name='seadogsnrebz' timestamp='1387053003' post='4012939']
Also, the cooldown on dispell but no change to spammable roots or CCs.
[/quote]

The CD to dispel was a really weird change considering how much instant CC and roots they added to the game, indeed.
Posted ImagePosted Image

#19 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:26 AM

[quote name='JamesDean' timestamp='1387049960' post='4012897']
More specs were viable in wrath than today..
[/quote]
think you misunderstood my post, I wasn't asking for hybrids to be nerfed back to vanilla uselesless

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)




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