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Votlol Resto Shaman Guide (5.4)


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#41 xliquidx

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:25 PM

Some feedback would be good on this.

I am a Rshaman and would like to get back to my rating which was 2064, this season. However it seems that it is quite impossible to get over 1960 nowadays. EVERY team has a mage/warrior or Mage/rogue above 1900+, there are times where i am getting killed through ALL my cds popped. The only way i usually survive their burst without spirit linking is if i have a lock, but in certain maps getting gate is very hard.

I ran various comps, it is quite weird but the comp that helped me get at my highest rating was warrior/ret/me. My ret had some RL stuff to take care off and the warrior is barely on. I have tried various comps, but it just seems that there is no hope healing as a rshaman... No one wants to take a rshaman for 5s or Rbgs, even disc is better in that scenario.

Lately i ran shadowcleave and that too was ok at 1900+ but after the mid 1900s it just falls apart. Here are my scenarios:

Warrior/Mage -

Warrior charges me, MS - > Mage Novas - > Bladestorm yolo - > deepfreeze, ice lance yolo(this puts me below 20% hp), if i dont have a lock --> i usualy spirit link, healing tide, spirit walker grace - > gets spell stolen from mage, healing tide gets 2 shot icelances and warrior kills link and i am dead..with a lock trinket deep take gate and hopefully it is not a short map so that the warrior doesnt leap charge and rape my face, i heal my self. But then they just stick on me like a glue and I am dead.

Rogue/Mage -

Rogue opens on me - i am down to 20-30% hp - > mage opens and I am either dead or 5% hp and have to link right away. Some times i get lucky and drop a pre cap totem and catch the rogue in it, but usually link goes out early and ofcourse the same thing happens it gets killed so does tide/healing stream and Swg gets dispelled and i am dead...with a lock I can only survive for another 30 secs till the next deep is up.

Is there anything else i can do? I had a lock that told me that i should easily survive with a dk and warrior on me by myself(we faced tsg). I don't really know how i can counter both of them classes training me non stop, would appreciate any feedback.

I am at my wits, I am slowly gearing up my rdruid, since it seems they are better off this season. I would really want to run without a lock but it seems that is my only option this season, any advice would be appreciated.
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#42 Votlol

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:37 AM

Okay well first, in regards to climbing in rating, there are a lot of factors to your success or failure that are not directly due to your play. it's important not to blame these things 100%, as there is obviously always room for improvement, so looking for things to work on before blaming your comp and stuff is pretty essential to getting better and climbing in general.

You said that your success came from playing ret / warrior. This comp isn't really the STRONGEST, and so I could see why the success wouldn't be consistent with that comp. For one, if you played earlier in the season, it could have some effect because a lot of classes scale differently with gear (traditionally caster scaled better, for example). Someone could queue the second they log in and get their new weapons before anyone else and climb a chunk of rating as well; and sometimes there are just certain comps that happen to queue more often than others for sometimes even no reason (like now a lot of rogue mage / warrior mage because people found out about how strong it is). Rating climbing can also be random, you could queue into some luck and get high mmr people who are playing a weird comp like tripple dps, or get lucky and not queue into any comps that give you a lot of trouble (like tsg queueing into a shaman every game, lol).

So the fastest way to climb is queue with better people, and queue with a better comp. Obviously that answer isn't always an option or really the most gratifying strategy. There's always room for improvement, whether it be playstyle, synergy, or whatever.

---

Now the scenario you described is a somewhat typical opener for warrior mage (with orb and what not), and frankly it's bound to happen at some point in the game; the two dps will connect and you will take a lot of damage. The first thing you should do is try and stall by avoiding the warrior for as long as possible. It's difficult, as they can just run close enough to leap then charge, but if they do charge and leap and your'e running freedom you could windwalk away, or root them and maybe ghostwolf away. If you're in the open you probably will have trouble escaping, but if you're behind a pillar and the warrior leap and charges out of los of his team, you have a pillar to LOS with while trying to escape, and CC can be put into the warrior without having it dispelled (quickly at least).

Now trying to get away is important to do at the right time, if you're standing there trying to top yourself eventually you will die. Even through CDs warrior mage (even rogue mage) can out damage your heals, so obviously they can easily kill you if you run out and they connect. But try to force them to open someone else, by having your team CC the warrior if they're running in on you at the start, or just doing a lot of damage or running in first. Stay out of charge range if possible while in combat, so that they at least have to leap to connect. If you stay near a pillar it'll help to prevent swaps because it's easier for you to get away and a pretty safe distance from the warrior if your team is playing in the open.

A few tips for when they do connect are try to land good cap totems on the warrior at least (make sure you hit the mage if he has cs ready or aura mastery if you think its worth it) so that you can get some hex's off on him with like cross cc on the mage (blanket, fear, shock on polly, whatever). I like earth grab vs that comp with teammates that i don't trust to just carry the game and force them off of me (but it really depends what comp i'm playing too) so typically you should earth grab when you're at decent health and already been like stunned (ie trinket the deep orb, maybe healing tide too, and drop earth grab and ghost wolf away around the pillar; then top yourself and build more distance between you and the warrior). Trinket gate is great when they reck storm and orb together on you, other wise either trinket + link + healing tide, or trinket + healingtide + ascendance + ns; depending on rng damage / your teams positioning.

You're really relying on your teams pressure to beat this, though. Eventually you will die, with swaps or whatever. Typically I see a wmx usually either swapping shaman, or the warrior just training sham and mage hitting random stuff. In that situation I think it's all about trying to kite the warrior at the best times and get free heals off, but there are times you have to just juke the 12 interrupts or blow aura mastery because of the tons of damage warriors do. But usually people go mage, I think that's the best start unless you're swapping druid, usually (scleave has potential to kill warriors if they rot low enough to die in a stun, so keep an eye for that situation), but try to help by purging when you can and controling the mage. The team relies heavily on the mage when they play that swap style especially, so pressuring the mage hard can put him or her behind enough to where there aren't so many swaps on you / they aren't as strong of swaps.

WIth mage rogue you and your team have to prevent them from 100% training you (it's much more possible to stop a rogue from doing so than a warrior, because fears stick more, as do roots, and they are more killable, I'd say, with less frequent gap closers [plus they like to go for restealths so that alone is some breathing room for you, and even more if your team harasses the restealth attempts]). After that, it's all about trading cooldowns for swaps. The opener is typically the most intense, especially with blades (i think mages usually orb on the opener as well). I like to try and cap stun just as you said, with a lock have them sit by you and howl (maybe even trinket sap if it happens, not sure). Position while they're in stealth near a pillar, drop healing rain, have UE + riptide hots on yourself and earth shield maybe, try to healing stream right before they open, and maybe cap totem or grounding at least. Magma can be alright to have down too but it doesn't stop much unless the rogue pushes in and gets hit by it before the mage is close enough to connect (extremely rare), don't let it break cc though like scatter if you play with a hunter or warrior fear, etc. I like to sit the first opener, and possibly link right out of the stun lock, if i get to where i will die without popping anything i will trinket + link when appropriate (same global so spam them at the same time, don't trinket and get dr stunned or silenced on it). Sometimes I battlemaster to stall for the link without PVP trinket (like when i'm garroted out of the stun) or healthstone. Sometimes you have to trinket link and battlemaster + healthstone, but it's worth it if they blades and orb especially.

After that, I always try to cap stun swaps, but I tend to attempt to stick away from the mage as much as I can, as a rogue won't really be able to solo me just in the stun usually, but be careful because if you get caught with both of them on you and no teammates, you can easily die in the stuns. Sometimes I try to healingtide the swaps, and always try to healing stream them (assuming i don't tide). Try to let your team know if you think you might link really soon so they can stack, and remember every game is different due to RNG damage (sometimes you don't have to pop anything in the opener like when they do not orb or blades or dance, so don't pop cd's more than you need). Use spiritwalker's grace mostly to immune silences like garrote or blanket (spam swg while you're kidney'd for example and you can immune the garrote often) or to get 1-2 surges off quickly, the longer it is up the more likely it gets purged off, obviously (make sure not to pop it before you get stunned, because if you get stunned on it you're obviously put way behind).

Like with vsing warrior mage x, it is important to get the pressure back out of the opener, as it's always been as shaman teams vs RMP. The best thing to do is put them so far behind that they can't generate effective swaps to you, or at least much less often. This means purging, shocking offensively, having great dispells especially on melee; without pressure you will eventually die and lose so it's most important that you and your team can work out enough scary pressure to force them defensive and kill. I suggest again mostly hitting the mage (rogues are a bit easier to swap to and kill than warrior as some comps but be careful, if cloak is a big stop for your team's kill potential, beware of spending too much time and too many swaps on the rogue because it's a pretty short CD / save). If you can force the rogue to stun defensively it means less pressure obviously, and usually a waste of some cd (dance, vanish, or kidney, maybe). Try to have your teammates save their trinkets unless it's absolutely needed / worth it, so they can trinket for bomb or blades maybe. Personally, I rarely have teammates die in bombs as I can just run in and link or healingtide as I'm running at them, or at least healing stream + ground something, then run in and NS; just be careful not to be too far away from your teammates (don't let them overextend too far and don't run too far trying to avoid letting them swap). You need to find a medium-distance sweet spot because if you're out in the middle of nowhere you're looking tasty to that rmx as they can just throw some slows and followup ccs on your team and hard swap you.

Your team needs to CC the rogue mostly during stuns, priority, and obviously cc the mage if they have the opportunity as well. Sitting near your lock's port / gateway is obviously really good as you can gate after stuns and he or she can port + howl sometimes both of the DPS which can negate the swap even when they trinket or wotf, sometimes.

But as I said, remember, offense offense offense. If you don't get pressure it's won't get much better. Beware, even with this advice it's tough to win a lot of the time, as it can be tough to get pressure on the mage as often as you need, and block is almost like a mini reset for them; and all they have to wait to swap you in their perfect situation is the duration of the stun DR on you for a swap that can force at least minor CD's, or even force your teammates to peel and sometiems get off the mage. With good dispells, positioning, and CD usage i think it's possible to win the majority of the time vs evenly or lesser skilled players, but I think it's a lot better with a warlock or maybe hunter.

Edited by Votlol, 11 December 2013 - 03:57 AM.

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#43 xliquidx

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:55 AM

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!

By far the most detailed and sound advice that i have ever came across.
I will definitely take these tips in tonight's arena. I usually ran windwalk against any Mage team, but I will definitely try Earth Grab.

Also, regarding over extending, i have had that happen against Rogue/Mage, i gated and ran away with SWG, they quickly took advantage of that and killed my team mate as soon as i dropped link :(.

Thank you sir!!!
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#44 fearco

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:03 PM

Votlol you're cool!
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#45 Jarzombek

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:30 PM

I will definitely take these tips in tonight's arena. I usually ran windwalk against any Mage team, but I will definitely try Earth Grab.


Vs mage teams go windwalk totem, especially if you have a melee in your team. If you are able to use it offensively (for example right after healing streaming and/or grounding, and reset it with Call of Elements) you can get that extra pressure to force the block. If you're with a warrior, coordinate it so you don't use it the same time as bladestorm.
Since windwalk totem immunes the pet freeze, mages can't get fingers of frost from it. If he pet freeze while the totem is up obviously

Edited by Jarzombek, 11 December 2013 - 09:31 PM.

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#46 Votlol

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:21 PM

added a little bit about positioning
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#47 Holyoracle

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:40 PM

Pro guide <3
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#48 Mattadoro

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

added a little bit about positioning


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#49 Shawtss

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

Actually thought that you would have stam gems for the gemming section
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#50 mnny

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:37 PM

carry me Vot
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#51 Darksoldierr

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:37 PM

carry me Vot


To the world of dreams and beyond!
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#52 Exumbra

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:44 PM

WHY isnt this a sticky, noob forum mods
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#53

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:02 PM

Nice guide, thanks Vot. :shaman:
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#54 Wizzybeats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:58 PM

What should I be casting as main heal? Like, what times should I be using healing wave vs greater healing wave vs healing surge?
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#55 Decobray

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:34 AM

WOW - simply amazing, one of the best guides i've ever read!
Great work.
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#56 Krysyst

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:02 PM

Actually a great guide. Played around with a few of your weights, and worked out a Crit/Haste build works perfectly well in a Rated Battleground.

Kudos nonetheless though. Certainly learnt a few things.
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