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DKs and the Current State of the Game... Fixes needed.

suggestions unfair disadvantage how to fix

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#101 Jeexlol

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 November 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

guess im done in this thread then. enjoy failing to break 2k everyone and keep on blaming it on how shit your class is, how overpowered warriors and mages are, how blizzard hates you, the weather, the mayor of toronto, and life in general, everything possible apart from yourselves :)

Good, get the fuck out. Here's some statistics for you.

http://www.worldofwa...-0-0-3-2-0.html


http://us.battle.net...eaderboards/3v3

Top 200 players...
There is a DK in the 33rd spot, and one in the 159th spot. Thats 1%. The #33 DK hasn't played much arena since the first week or two.

There are 2 DKs
There are 34 Warriors
There are 27 Mages


Obviously the warriors and mages are much more skilled than the DK, thats all.


If the season ended today, there would be like 2 gladiator DKs in the US in 3s. LMFAO FUCK YOU

#102 Schvetolga

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 November 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

guess im done in this thread then. enjoy failing to break 2k everyone and keep on blaming it on how shit your class is, how overpowered warriors and mages are, how blizzard hates you, the weather, the mayor of toronto, and life in general, everything possible apart from yourselves :)

Yes, please go away. You dont play a DK, you dont know how hard it is to even get people to want to play with you. You play a mage and you actually think mages are fine in their current state. Anything you say is void as long as you cant admit that your class is broken. Most top mages admit that their class is broken, but not you. Not the all knowing Dizzee.

View PostJeexlol, on 19 November 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Good, get the fuck out. Here's some statistics for you.

http://www.worldofwa...-0-0-3-2-0.html


http://us.battle.net...eaderboards/3v3

Top 200 players...
There is a DK in the 33rd spot, and one in the 159th spot. Thats 1%. The #33 DK hasn't played much arena since the first week or two.

There are 2 DKs
There are 34 Warriors
There are 27 Mages


Obviously the warriors and mages are much more skilled than the DK, thats all.


If the season ended today, there would be like 2 gladiator DKs in the US in 3s. LMFAO FUCK YOU

2 DK's above 2.3k lols, clearly a l2p issue.

Edited by Urbandurban, 19 November 2013 - 04:31 PM.

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#103 Silhin

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:25 PM

Simple don't play Dk i don't know why any one does this class is probly the most overall boring class to play UH DK Just boring pet class and Frost Dk u just sit in roots and die in globals u might do god damage But There defensive > your's youll always run out before they do and there thats whole u sit in the middle of the arena in los almost all the time or u can never do damage your choice

#104 Schvetolga

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:05 PM



No fix to AMS inc either, wtf are we going to do this season with AMS lasting 1 ice lance.
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#105 seadogsnrebz

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 27 November 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

No fix to AMS inc either, wtf are we going to do this season with AMS lasting 1 ice lance.

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BTW OP gotta tag these threads with #dksuck  that should be the official tag for all things DK SUCK

#106 Schvetolga

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:31 PM

View Postseadogsnrebz, on 30 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

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BTW OP gotta tag these threads with #dksuck  that should be the official tag for all things DK SUCK

I'm just really frustrated that he states it's a huge issue but then says that there's no plans to fix it. I mean, wtf?
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#107 seadogsnrebz

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 30 November 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I'm just really frustrated that he states it's a huge issue but then says that there's no plans to fix it. I mean, wtf?

Because Holinka thinks every spec but boomkin is viable in arena.  Which is funny because ALL 4 DRUID SPECS are viable in RBG and both feral and resto are obviously doing fine in arena.

Don't waste your time picking up the shittiest CLASS in the game.  Fix Boomkins.

Then again they havent even fixed boomkins so where does that leave us?

Ref: https://twitter.com/...858191378755584   (found on the druid forums)

#108 Schvetolga

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:35 PM

View Postseadogsnrebz, on 30 November 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

Because Holinka thinks every spec but boomkin is viable in arena.  Which is funny because ALL 4 DRUID SPECS are viable in RBG and both feral and resto are obviously doing fine in arena.

Don't waste your time picking up the shittiest CLASS in the game.  Fix Boomkins.

Then again they havent even fixed boomkins so where does that leave us?

Ref: https://twitter.com/...858191378755584   (found on the druid forums)

He seems to think that as long as theres atleast 1 person of each class on the ladders it's perfectly fine and viable.
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#109 seadogsnrebz

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 30 November 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

He seems to think that as long as theres atleast 1 person of each class on the ladders it's perfectly fine and viable.

Yup 0.5% representation in the top 200 does leave us with one whole death king that hasnt even queued since week two -- proving the class is viable.

Dunno its frustrating but aside from blowing up WoW arena forums, which we have been doing, what else can we do?

#110 Schvetolga

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:19 AM

View Postseadogsnrebz, on 30 November 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Yup 0.5% representation in the top 200 does leave us with one whole death king that hasnt even queued since week two -- proving the class is viable.

Dunno its frustrating but aside from blowing up WoW arena forums, which we have been doing, what else can we do?

We can tweet spam him but dont know how much that's gonna help. I'm leveling a warrior now anyway, sadly :P.
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#111 Ralin

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 02:18 AM

Tweet spamming him just gets you ignored or blocked by him. He doesn't answer any of the significant questions. The answer to AMS was all you really needed to know about how worthless his view from his ivory tower is.

#112 Schvetolga

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostRalin, on 01 December 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Tweet spamming him just gets you ignored or blocked by him. He doesn't answer any of the significant questions. The answer to AMS was all you really needed to know about how worthless his view from his ivory tower is.

I obviously dont mean spam as in continously tweeting the same question every minute. I mean a multitude of people asking questions about the same thing.
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#113 Seraphuslol

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

Make Death Knights heal for 35% of their necrotic strike debuff as its healed through (I guess it'd need to be like 75% before BF?)

Double death grip baseline, Make the DK 4P Bonus the ability to have two (or all?) presences active at a time.

Make Death's Advance baseline, replace Death's Advance on the talent tree with the old Desecration.

Obviously fix AMS and revert the change to AMZ.

... Maybe add an ability where DKs can detonate the remaining necrotic on a target for 75% of its value, cannot crit with the attack... just cause.




Idk just a couple fun ideas

Edited by Seraphuslol, 01 December 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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#114 Forumz

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostSeraphuslol, on 01 December 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Make Death Knights heal for 35% of their necrotic strike debuff as its healed through (I guess it'd need to be like 75% before BF?)

Double death grip baseline, Make the DK 4P Bonus the ability to have two (or all?) presences active at a time.

Make Death's Advance baseline, replace Death's Advance on the talent tree with the old Desecration.

Obviously fix AMS and revert the change to AMZ.

... Maybe add an ability where DKs can detonate the remaining necrotic on a target for 75% of its value, cannot crit with the attack... just cause.

Those ideas are all fcking retarded.

Except for the AMS / AMZ suggestion obviously.
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#115 Seraphuslol

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:19 PM

The ideas are perfectly fine. Youre probably just one of those people who thinks dks root problem needs to be addressed more than almost anything else, when its that thinking that has made this game how it is in the first place.

Every class should have a major weakness, for dk that weakness is being rooted, and I feel like that weakness would say. When you take away a class' s major weakness you create an overpowered monstrosity. I'm amazed you havent noticed that in wow yet.

Necrotic change to reward uptime by making dks a little more difficult to kill.

Presence chance to make it so DKs can do at least something in root and have a quicker recovery after being rooted.

DA desecration change to help with mobility outside of root, plus people would finally have a choice that can actually compete with asphyxiate.

That last ability idc about, just sounds cool

The changes are hardly retarded, you just dont agree with them because you feel like the major flaw needs to be handled more than subtle nuances, when major flaws need to exist for balance to exist. A lot of other classes dont have major flaws at the moment, and as such cant be stopped. Therein lies the problem..

Edited by Seraphuslol, 01 December 2013 - 07:22 PM.

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#116 Forumz

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:29 PM

Double grip is fcking retarded and should be removed rather than given baseline.

Necrotic absorb healing you is fcking retarded because it would be yet another thing you get from simply pressing 1 button. We had that design in cata, where just pressing necrotic strike meant you would be successful because it's all you needed to press. Never again.

If you can't see how having 2 presences active at the same time is retarded then I don't even know anymore.

DA baseline would be nice but wouldn't fix DKs.

PvP 4-set could make presences like the improved presence talents from wrath, if you insist. (IE you always have an amount of dmg reduction from blood presence even when not in it / always movement speed from unholy / always more RP generation from frost)
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#117 Seraphuslol

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostForumz, on 01 December 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Double grip is fcking retarded and should be removed rather than given baseline.

Necrotic absorb healing you is fcking retarded because it would be yet another thing you get from simply pressing 1 button. We had that design in cata, where just pressing necrotic strike meant you would be successful because it's all you needed to press. Never again.

If you can't see how having 2 presences active at the same time is retarded then I don't even know anymore.

DA baseline would be nice but wouldn't fix DKs.

PvP 4-set could make presences like the improved presence talents from wrath, if you insist. (IE you always have an amount of dmg reduction from blood presence even when not in it / always movement speed from unholy / always more RP generation from frost)

Well yeah thats what I meant on the 4 set.

And the problem isn't fixing the major flaws with DKs, the problem is the lack of flaws in the design of other classes.

If no class ever had a flaw where it could be stopped, it would feel like everyone running around is either a warrior or a mage. Ergo why I feel like the root issue shouldnt be addressed.

Classes need their weaknesses. When classes don't have weaknesses that allow them to be readily stopped, thats when the game starts "needing" things like baseline resil because people get crushed, or battle fatigue because heals are way too strong, and ultimately the lack of class-related weaknesses is what causes you to end up with a oneshotting shitstorm season like we've had for all of MoP and for a good portion of Cataclysm.

I'm sorry if you disagree, maybe you'd just rather have every class be flawless and unstoppable, and have every single match turn into an RNG swifty fest without fail.
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#118 Forumz

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:41 PM

Idk where you read that I think DKs need something to deal with roots.

I don't.
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#119 Neosaurfang

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:14 PM

Ban everyone who abuses the Tolvir bug for death grip, should fix dks.
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#120 Schvetolga

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostSeraphuslol, on 01 December 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Well yeah thats what I meant on the 4 set.

And the problem isn't fixing the major flaws with DKs, the problem is the lack of flaws in the design of other classes.

If no class ever had a flaw where it could be stopped, it would feel like everyone running around is either a warrior or a mage. Ergo why I feel like the root issue shouldnt be addressed.

Classes need their weaknesses. When classes don't have weaknesses that allow them to be readily stopped, thats when the game starts "needing" things like baseline resil because people get crushed, or battle fatigue because heals are way too strong, and ultimately the lack of class-related weaknesses is what causes you to end up with a oneshotting shitstorm season like we've had for all of MoP and for a good portion of Cataclysm.


I'm sorry if you disagree, maybe you'd just rather have every class be flawless and unstoppable, and have every single match turn into an RNG swifty fest without fail.

This all sounds great, but you do realize that a significant nerf to their god status isnt coming right? None of these classes will receive significant nerfs in MoP and thus they need to buff the other classes to compete. In a perfect world they would nerf warrior/mages so they aren't in their godlike status and thus avoiding the need to buff the other classes but as we all know, that wont happen. So it's more realistic to ask for buffs to the class thats the underdog and does have weaknesses than to ask for nerfs to the classes that are currently in god status.

Edited by Urbandurban, 02 December 2013 - 12:51 AM.

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