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DKs and the Current State of the Game... Fixes needed.

suggestions unfair disadvantage how to fix

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#61 Italialol

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

How about they bring warriors back to earth instead of trying to bring all other melee to warrior level and do something about rogue/mage buff stacking. Warriors took your jerbs.
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#62 Ralin

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:48 AM

We may be a thorn in your shoe, but mages are a knife through your heart, ok.

which would I rather have... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......


Oddly enough, most people would pick mages.

Mages strangely have the most crying power as a collective community because for some reason, no matter what they'll be invariably supported by rogues since rogues are convinced that they should work with no other class.

I remain unconvinced that a PvP summit that invited 2 rogues and a mage will result in the most unbiased feedback for whatever future this game has PvP wise.
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#63 hekumzx

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:45 AM

1. Chillblains made passive. Replaced with another useful talent that gives meaningful thought to pick up instead of Asphyxiate.
2. AMS absorb returned to previous state - 100% for the duration (no "up to a percent" of the DKs HP - similar to cloak of shadows)
3. IBF Cooldown lowered to 1 minute


Didn't read the replies but generally when people offer class changes they are just making dumb shit up. For example, most dks dont even use trinkets as it is - if you lower IBF to 1 minute DKs will basically be like BM hunters were and stuns would be avoidable for the first 14minutes of a game.

AMS Absorb, cool, although I don't think most teams are just killing DKs through AMS unless they are using AMS whilst nova'd inside of an orb being spammed with lances. But didn't they just add a glyph that allows DK to use AMS every 25 seconds if the shell is used to prevent CC rather than absorb damage? Also, if that is correct and a team is nuking you, you shell, they swap, don't you still have a 25 second AMS?

Chillbains. That would just be fucking annoying, not sure how that is a balance change.
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#64 Schvetolga

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 02:12 AM

Didn't read the replies but generally when people offer class changes they are just making dumb shit up. For example, most dks dont even use trinkets as it is - if you lower IBF to 1 minute DKs will basically be like BM hunters were and stuns would be avoidable for the first 14minutes of a game.

AMS Absorb, cool, although I don't think most teams are just killing DKs through AMS unless they are using AMS whilst nova'd inside of an orb being spammed with lances. But didn't they just add a glyph that allows DK to use AMS every 25 seconds if the shell is used to prevent CC rather than absorb damage? Also, if that is correct and a team is nuking you, you shell, they swap, don't you still have a 25 second AMS?

Chillbains. That would just be fucking annoying, not sure how that is a balance change.


Exactly, what do you think it was in S8? It was annoying as fuck. Sitting in novas all game is also annoying as fuck, perhaps remove nova?

We used to be an annoying class, we didn't do a shitload of damage but we could peel. By using CoI you're sacrificing a large chunk of damage. Let it be a choice rather than taking the choice away from us.

You completely miss the point that anybody chosing to silence you is leaving your healer open to cast. It's called cross CC for a reason. WW monk sits in a stun with zero buttons to push. All shaman (including the melee version) can do nothing in a silence. You're not the only one and the point is that it's a choice.

Classes should have weaknesses, otherwise you become s11 rogues with legendaries.


If only this were the case.. There's way too much CC in the game right now for any mage/lock to even care. CCing the DK is almost always a guaranteed trinket or kill, so it's an obvious choice everytime.

Edited by Urbandurban, 18 November 2013 - 02:16 AM.

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#65 Ownu

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:23 AM

I think putting presence swapping on their own GCD like warrior stances, and making shifting presence glyph baseline may be some good but not overpowered changes
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#66 Pinka

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:23 AM

Ams should just be there for its full duration.
Also presences should have its own cd + the glyph baseline.
Tho dk is meant to be the least mobile melee this is compensated for them having the most ranged damage.
They can fix this to nerf the melee damage and buff ranged like deathcoil and perhaps giving coi some passie dmg so it isnt a huge trade of dmg/utility.
Or change the set bonus that it gives the dk a burst of runic power in addition of the over time.

So many ppl qq about classes looking the same yet all the dks want what warriors have now.
Plz look at class design then look into its problems.
Atm it feels survivability and uptime are a problem.
A buff to ams or a qol change to presences can do that rather then giving dks another trinket.
Also i think ibf should be able to be used wile silenced. It is just too big to be locked out of defensives especially the way the game is now.

Giving dks more melee uptime just defeats the class design. However they should not be helpless when sitting in roots. By buffing their ranged damage this uptime can be fixed wile it still feels somewhat rewarding to peel the dk. On the other side buffing the ranged damage means disarm will be less effective too.



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#67 Ralin

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:03 AM

If the goal of the DK is ranged melee assuming you don't end up introducing hatred for the class again because of Shadowfrost DKs, then there needs to be a design change and removal of or shift of focus away from Necrotic Strike as the pressure move.

Otherwise, the whole notion that DKs are meant to get stuck in roots to turret Death Coils at people is silly.
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#68 scuzfail

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:00 PM

Asking for 1min cd on IBF ... as i understand its currently 3min and usable while stunned. maybe dks arent great atm but the one thing im sure about is that they don't need anymore trinkets :D
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#69 Hudderr

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:06 PM

If only this were the case.. There's way too much CC in the game right now for any mage/lock to even care. CCing the DK is almost always a guaranteed trinket or kill, so it's an obvious choice everytime.


But DK's got like 3 trinkets anyways, so it'll take the same amount of time getting through those as getting defensives from other classes :-)
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#70 Ralin

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

If it takes 3 trinkets to get to 3% representation, could you give us 15 more?

You focus so hard on this LOL3TRINKETS thing like it's somehow actually benefiting the class in some way in it's current state.
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#71 Xeid

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

Ams should just be there for its full duration.
Also presences should have its own cd + the glyph baseline.
Tho dk is meant to be the least mobile melee this is compensated for them having the most ranged damage.
They can fix this to nerf the melee damage and buff ranged like deathcoil and perhaps giving coi some passie dmg so it isnt a huge trade of dmg/utility.
Or change the set bonus that it gives the dk a burst of runic power in addition of the over time.

So many ppl qq about classes looking the same yet all the dks want what warriors have now.
Plz look at class design then look into its problems.
Atm it feels survivability and uptime are a problem.
A buff to ams or a qol change to presences can do that rather then giving dks another trinket.
Also i think ibf should be able to be used wile silenced. It is just too big to be locked out of defensives especially the way the game is now.

Giving dks more melee uptime just defeats the class design. However they should not be helpless when sitting in roots. By buffing their ranged damage this uptime can be fixed wile it still feels somewhat rewarding to peel the dk. On the other side buffing the ranged damage means disarm will be less effective too.


+rep and :

Would rep this all day long if I could. People seem to want their class to have almost the exact same abilities as other classes. It's already happening as it is.

There won't be any style of play or differences between classes if this keeps going on.

I'm very much against DK's having root breakers ( Classes should have weaknesses and strengths, makes the game more fun to play) and buffing their ranged damaged , AMS and IBF.

But all this also has to do with the fact that the general game is retarded because not only DK's die in a mage CS+ deep.

No one seemed to mind before when DK's couldn't get out of roots. Nerf what is overpowered, don't buff everything for the hell of it.
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When I switch mains, warrior on my screen
Stun and reflect screaming casting ain't a thang ....
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#72 seadogsnrebz

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

I see a lot of vanity in these posts... like "MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE CLASS RAWLLGRRT"... there's more than one way to skin a cat ppl.

Also, this:

If it takes 3 trinkets to get to 3% representation, could you give us 15 more?

You focus so hard on this LOL3TRINKETS thing like it's somehow actually benefiting the class in some way in it's current state.


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#73 Jeexlol

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 02:44 PM

Asking for 1min cd on IBF ... as i understand its currently 3min and usable while stunned. maybe dks arent great atm but the one thing im sure about is that they don't need anymore trinkets :D


It's not about the "trinket" to get out of a stun... most people don't even run with trinkets (mages included)

It's about the damage reduction that is drastically needed.
  • Warriors have a passive 25% dmg reduc in defensive stance, leaps, intervenes, spell reflects, and two defensive cooldowns
  • DK's have a 10% reduc in blood pres and a 3 min cooldown for 20%
  • Shaman have a 1min 30% dmg reduc, offhealing, and grounding
  • Druids have bear form mitigation and the ability to avoid dmg through mobility, and offheals
  • Paladins have bubble and freedom to line if they need to, and offheals, sac

a 1 min 20% cooldown will bring the defensive ability on par with an enh


Warriors still have an ungodly amount of defensives and mages for some reason tank better in arena than an anti-magic plate wearing tank class.

Makes no fucking sense.
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#74 Schvetolga

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

But DK's got like 3 trinkets anyways, so it'll take the same amount of time getting through those as getting defensives from other classes :-)


Not sure if troll. Non of our so called trinkets remove CS and non of them except for DesG is usable while CSed. And how do these "trinkets" help us survive?
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#75 a1entity

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:16 PM

Asking for 1min cd on IBF ... as i understand its currently 3min and usable while stunned. maybe dks arent great atm but the one thing im sure about is that they don't need anymore trinkets :D

And mages def don't need that much damage and control.
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#76 Udderly

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:59 PM

You are... hands down retarded...

Against DKs:

Warrior mage healer: barrel damage into dk, poly healer, healer trinkets, charge fear healer, deep and silence DK, DK dies in 3 to 5 seconds without a fighting chance.

Mage warlock healer: wear down team, dk has to use ams to avoid dying earlier, the moment ams is down you can bombard the healer with x amount of different CCs while silence and deep freezing the dk to finish a match.

Warrior warlock healer: same as warrior mage, except timing the kill with warrior cooldowns rather than mage cds, more cc to work with, still able to silence the dk.

Idk what bracket you're playing in, but in this game the amount of cc is more than enoigh to control 2 people and sometimes even all 3 when going for a kill. The fact that you seem to think otherwise just says that you're someone only posting here because junkies restriction was lifted.


Wow you're totally right, I completely forgot that DK's are the only class that suffers like this. None of the other classes I mentioned are unable to do something when cross ccd, but clearly DK's should be the exception. My fault for thinking we wanted things to be somewhat equal. Apologies. Resto shaman should continue to have zero buttons to push, same with WW monks. Thank god those specs don't have a damage reduction presence or they would just be too good.....
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#77 Udderly

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:00 PM

You are... hands down retarded...

Against DKs:

Warrior mage healer: barrel damage into dk, poly healer, healer trinkets, charge fear healer, deep and silence DK, DK dies in 3 to 5 seconds without a fighting chance.

Mage warlock healer: wear down team, dk has to use ams to avoid dying earlier, the moment ams is down you can bombard the healer with x amount of different CCs while silence and deep freezing the dk to finish a match.

Warrior warlock healer: same as warrior mage, except timing the kill with warrior cooldowns rather than mage cds, more cc to work with, still able to silence the dk.

Idk what bracket you're playing in, but in this game the amount of cc is more than enoigh to control 2 people and sometimes even all 3 when going for a kill. The fact that you seem to think otherwise just says that you're someone only posting here because junkies restriction was lifted.


I also love this 2v3 game you are playing where the third guy just afks while you guys lose.

And if you're going to rating bash, I'd like to know why a guy who got 2.2k when the required junkie achieve was 2.4 is talking shit. You, sir, are the reason this site has turned into the cesspool that it is. Thanks for that.
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#78 deangryamigo

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:22 PM

And if you're going to rating bash, I'd like to know why a guy who got 2.2k when the required junkie achieve was 2.4 is talking shit. You, sir, are the reason this site has turned into the cesspool that it is. Thanks for that.


your like 1400 on all your toons
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#79 Udderly

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

your like 1400 on all your toons


riiiiiiiight.... Especially funny that you think you have any idea what my characters are. But please, go on....
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#80

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:25 PM

Nerf dmg in blood presence.
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