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Paladin Balance OP Nerf Ret Pally Underpower

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#61 Bridgey

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostDanücsmlan, on 04 November 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

EAT SHIT PALADINS!! HAHAHAHA
LOOK AT ME IMA WARRIOR IM FINE HAHAHAHA

Best post.
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#62 deltr

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostHankx, on 04 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Rets in US only vanguards 2.5 "well the guy have real good friends carry" then comes 2 others with 2.3 then it's 2.2 and 2.1 heros Total 10

Ret's in EU "Ignore the Russians" there is only two at 2.3 rest are 2.2 to 2.1 heros  Total 9

Yeah, just like how there's only 6 WW above 2k. Underrepresented doesn't equal unsatisfactory.

#63 Silhin

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

View PostJojonephew, on 05 November 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

stop bitching about frost dks and shit just go unholy and GG but rets cant move to a diff dps spec except prot jk lol !
All these rets need to stop bitching about ret and go holy so what if u dont have 2 dps spec argument still stand if they want to excell at the game they still have a dominate spec and ret is even that far behind frost is unplayable your argument is moot and you're just a idiot

#64 Voidbringer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostSilhin, on 05 November 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

All these rets need to stop bitching about ret and go holy so what if u dont have 2 dps spec argument still stand if they want to excell at the game they still have a dominate spec and ret is even that far behind frost is unplayable your argument is moot and you're just a idiot

No the argument doesn't stand at all! How can you compare Frost vs Unholy and Ret vs Holy. You have 2 dps specs one of which is and has almost always been superior, so you have a good if not very good DPS spec to play. If somebody is playing a DPS all the time how can you f$%^ing tell them to go start healing if they don't want to?? Why not go a step further and say: "if you don't like the state of Ret go play underwater polo!", because for people who don't want/like to be healers it might as well be the same thing. Really can't tell if troll....

Besides, as said before, if you want to complain about Frost - by all means go ahead. In the Death Knight class section. Jesus it's like when rogues ask what's the best comp in their class forum and some guy pops up..."WMD deffo Numba 1 and OP!!"
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#65 originalret

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:23 AM

At this point, im wondering what the OP was trying to achieve here.
If their aim was to start a whinge thread, they succeeded. hell, we even got frost DK's come all the way from their own forum here to come bitch too!

Now i hate to be a Buzz Killington here and stomp all over the QQ, but lets try to be proactive here and offer potential solutions:

Quote

1- Every comp is CC'ing me even more than my healer "with nothing to take off the cc after trinket"  If am not the target
Well bubble will take off all but banishment. consider using clemency for more access to bubble and against physical teams do your best to keep your healer in a HOP to prevent physical based CC on them.

Quote

2- Every other comp is poping Cd's on me 24/7 till i die vs "wars / mages / hunters / Enh's ... ect" teams even with Bubble <if there is no insta dispell> and my SW every 30 sec CD i can't stand more than 5 mins
Ret's have been the primary target for arena for some time. Against casters i suggest saving your DP for a long stun, and saving HoP (or saving your forbearance) for physical burst, like warrior blenders (those guys cant shatter throw while they spinning)

Quote

3- After useing my CD's i see no dmg at all  BY ALL MEANING there is no dmg!
Damage for most classes is very gear dependant. without being able to see your armoury i wouldnt be able to offer any specific advice other than "keep at it until you have more gear" however some tips i can suggest would be:
- pair up with a more sustainable dps. both of you do what you can to pressure someone to 50% hp, THEN you swifty. most people dont have the reaction time to deter/block/bubble when that happens.
- dont just save FoJ for your finishing act, especially against healers. wait for their interrupt-immunity buff then fire it.
- make sure you are monitoring defensive CD's on your target. If you notice them fire off their defensives before you hit wings, maybe consider kiting/LoS'ing until its worn off, then take em down.

All of the above is open to discussion as i am sure some more seasoned players will have more on-hands experience than myself in some of the above-mentioned situations. I am happy to continue discussing it until we reach a point where i cant offer any other effective solutions. If we reach that point, thats when i will suggest every person actively interested in seeing ret's change make their suggestions somewhere bliz may actually take notice of it. That place, is not AJ forums.

TL;DR
your complaining, not looking for a solution. this is pointless.

try asking for help/suggestions to specific problems, ie survivability

if you get no help, go post on bliz forums/lodge a game suggestion.

#66 Silhin

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:27 AM

View PostVoidbringer, on 05 November 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

No the argument doesn't stand at all! How can you compare Frost vs Unholy and Ret vs Holy. You have 2 dps specs one of which is and has almost always been superior, so you have a good if not very good DPS spec to play. If somebody is playing a DPS all the time how can you f$%^ing tell them to go start healing if they don't want to?? Why not go a step further and say: "if you don't like the state of Ret go play underwater polo!", because for people who don't want/like to be healers it might as well be the same thing. Really can't tell if troll....

Besides, as said before, if you want to complain about Frost - by all means go ahead. In the Death Knight class section. Jesus it's like when rogues ask what's the best comp in their class forum and some guy pops up..."WMD deffo Numba 1 and OP!!"
God fucking damit why do they let retard post here

Its like beating a dead horse with u . First post i clearly stated rets have amazing utility and actually bring something to a 3s vs something like a Dk who only brings damage and sits in roots ( in other words why would rets complain when the QOL is pretty nice compared to some other class's )

Since your to stupid to see you basically told me to go play under water polo or spec holy paladin Just how you Don't like playing Holy or to use to being (DPS SPEC) i Don't like play a pet based spec

And yet again The class has more than one SPEC go play holy dumbass and stop complaining it does good on the ladder hur hur idiot

TLDR - Poster is idiot L2play Ret is not the worst Spec in the Game

#67 realgar

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

We ran warr/ret/mage/heals to 2k last night -- seems like ret works pretty well in some 5s comps.  Checked ladder and highest ret in 5s is only 2037 or something o.O

#68 Voidbringer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostSilhin, on 06 November 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

God fucking damit why do they let retard post here

Its like beating a dead horse with u . First post i clearly stated rets have amazing utility and actually bring something to a 3s vs something like a Dk who only brings damage and sits in roots ( in other words why would rets complain when the QOL is pretty nice compared to some other class's )

Since your to stupid to see you basically told me to go play under water polo or spec holy paladin Just how you Don't like playing Holy or to use to being (DPS SPEC) i Don't like play a pet based spec

And yet again The class has more than one SPEC go play holy dumbass and stop complaining it does good on the ladder hur hur idiot

TLDR - Poster is idiot L2play Ret is not the worst Spec in the Game

Your logic is just amazing. Since you "clearly stated" something it must be the truth right? there is this thing called opinion. You having a different one than mine and then insulting me multiple times just shows your level of thinking.

Then you go and contradict yourself, because you don't want to switch between frost and unholy, but want me to not only switch specs but also the role? Again - great logic. Following your stream of thought - go play a retri (it's not a pet spec), then if you don't like it play holy lol

Also another primitive strategy is to imply I said something, when in fact I didn't. I never said "Retri is the worst spec in the game". Do you hear voices in your head that tell you what other people think? Might want to get that checked with a specialist...

P.S. If you want to insult somebody, try not to look like an idiot yourself. You meant to say: "You are stupid" not "Your stupid"... +rep if helped
"There is nothing so uncommon as common sense"

#69 Voidbringer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:35 PM

View Postoriginalret, on 06 November 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

your complaining, not looking for a solution. this is pointless.

No, no, nooo!! Stop de-railing our beautiful whine thread:(. Have you ever heard of this psychological mechanism called "emotion release"? This is our time...our time to cry....don't take that away from us;(.

On a serious note, you give some good advice and it's appreciated, but I disagree that we can't have a discussion other than: "state your very specific problem and ask for a very specific solution". It's a forum about a game remember:)? Even more so... "the blues" confirmed they read feedback on such sites and, while it's sad,  Blizzard tends to pay more attention to huge posts with lots of whining more than anything else.

Also, in a perfectly balanced game your advice would probably solve most if not all issues.The thing is the game is not balanced, so whatever you try to do - some classes can do better and have an easier time doing it (not all obviously).

My suggestions: Increase sustained damage. Bringing a better DPS is not the solution, because all classes have burst CDs now, so why bring a weak sustained, good burst when you can take strong sustained and better burst.

Balance utility so tunneling the ret is not always the best solution (doesn't promote decision-making or skill). This one is tricky, but the general idea is that e.g. heals should be the same for you and your partners (doesn't mean they should be exactly what they are now with SH). Maybe amount of damage taken could decrease time of forebearance so they don't just mindlessly tunnel you ...not sure about that one - please don't throw rocks at me.

New Skill (very, very serious idea): Righteous Avenger - active: next time the warrior charges you he gets reflected and bounced back double the distance of charge (haha c'mon that would be hilarious:D). Passive: every time a warrior crits you he has a 50% chance of breaking his sword disarming him for 10 seconds and a 5% chance of breaking it beyond repair :D
"There is nothing so uncommon as common sense"

#70 Voidbringer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

Jesus Christ what have I created.... TL;DR: Buff Rets! Nerf Warrior! ;]
"There is nothing so uncommon as common sense"

#71 originalret

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostVoidbringer, on 06 November 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

No, no, nooo!! Stop de-railing our beautiful whine thread:(. Have you ever heard of this psychological mechanism called "emotion release"? This is our time...our time to cry....don't take that away from us;(.

sry bud, too high on life for QQ

Quote

On a serious note, you give some good advice and it's appreciated, but I disagree that we can't have a discussion other than: "state your very specific problem and ask for a very specific solution". It's a forum about a game remember:)? Even more so... "the blues" confirmed they read feedback on such sites and, while it's sad,  Blizzard tends to pay more attention to huge posts with lots of whining more than anything else.

I have heard bliz does read posts from community forums, however if you were to put yourself in blizzard's shoes, which post would you be more likely to take on board and action; the post filled with unconstructive or unrealistic requests and complaint, or the one providing specific suggestions that can possibly be implemented without much difficulty?

I agree that a large post with multiple good suggestions and +1 on it has more sway than a smaller one. Looking at the paladin forums, it feels more like a whole bunch of smaller forums with only a couple pages of suggestions and replies, most of which are not that serious. People would be better off starting a forum thread or poll for ret paladin suggestions on the bliz forums, and link that forum to all the smaller threads relating to the QQ. if it is all in the one place (a place where bliz will check first) then action is more likely to happen.

Quote

Also, in a perfectly balanced game your advice would probably solve most if not all issues.The thing is the game is not balanced, so whatever you try to do - some classes can do better and have an easier time doing it (not all obviously).

I agree the game lacks balance, having said that i dont believe the imbalance is so severe that achieving high ratings as ret is impossible. Vanguards has managed it, and he is just another wow player. granted, he pours his entire being into gaming and ret, but he proves its possible given enough work.

Quote

Maybe amount of damage taken could decrease time of forebearance so they don't just mindlessly tunnel you ...not sure about that one - please don't throw rocks at me.

Rather than make it baseline, i would suggest incorporating this into unbreakable spirit. That talent is designed moreso around personal survivability after all.

Quote

New Skill (very, very serious idea): Righteous Avenger - active: next time the warrior charges you he gets reflected and bounced back double the distance of charge (haha c'mon that would be hilarious:D). Passive: every time a warrior crits you he has a 50% chance of breaking his sword disarming him for 10 seconds and a 5% chance of breaking it beyond repair :D

all of my want.

#72 Voidbringer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:20 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 07 November 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

sry bud, too high on life for QQ

I'm a glad in full pvp gear IRL;). Got promoted twice this year, got married in September aaaand one more thing I can't share here because paranoid parrot tells me my family may read AJ before I tell them lol - come at me :P

Quote

I have heard bliz does read posts from community forums...

95% of the time I would agree with you. Just wanted to feel how it is to jump on the bandwagon for once. I know that the "on a serious note" was misleading...;)

Quote

I agree the game lacks balance, having said that i dont believe the imbalance is so severe that achieving high ratings as ret is impossible. Vanguards has managed it, and he is just another wow player...

I love challenges in real life, so I don't mind being the underdog in game. I also understand your approach, as I often think "If somebody can do it...it means I can do it too with enough effort". I will say though that balancing a game or interpreting the state of given class/spec based on arguably the best player using this class (with Mystic being close second probably) and having access to the best arena partners that could probably 2v3 to 2200...is not the best way to go about this subject.

As far as the rest goes - agreed and good luck with your Retri. I'll play arenas tonight as my DK buddy is coming back and I'll see how it goes. I will definitely have fun though. Not a raging type.

P.S. Which comps worked best for you in 2v2 and 3v3?
"There is nothing so uncommon as common sense"

#73 JamesDean

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM

View PostVoidbringer, on 07 November 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:



I'm a glad in full pvp gear IRL;). Got promoted twice this year, got married in September aaaand one more thing I can't share here because paranoid parrot tells me my family may read AJ before I tell them lol - come at me :P

So let me get this straight, you got promoted, is married and waiting a baby and still you're the biggest f*cking tryhard on a gaming forum towards a bunch of red haired, acne infected children whos only social life is their dog and this game...
There is something rotten about this.


#74 Voidbringer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostJamesDean, on 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

So let me get this straight, you got promoted, is married and waiting a baby and still you're the biggest f*cking tryhard on a gaming forum towards a bunch of red haired, acne infected children whos only social life is their dog and this game...
There is something rotten about this.

I know it's common for AJ to attack anything and anyone for no reason but c'mooon take a chill pill this time. I've been also visiting this forum for 2-3 years now and have like 30 posts together, so it may be true that I've been more active during last days (mainly killing time inbetween work stuff) ...but biggest f*cking tryhard? Really? Ok. Honestly people overuse and exaggerate so many things these days.
"There is nothing so uncommon as common sense"

#75 JamesDean

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostVoidbringer, on 07 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:



I know it's common for AJ to attack anything and anyone for no reason but c'mooon take a chill pill this time. I've been also visiting this forum for 2-3 years now and have like 30 posts together, so it may be true that I've been more active during last days (mainly killing time inbetween work stuff) ...but biggest f*cking tryhard? Really? Ok. Honestly people overuse and exaggerate so many things these days.
That's not the point, ur bragging about ur adult life towards some immature kids who watch Jersey shore and wear baggy jeans, while never seen a pair of boobs irl.
That's like hunting rabbits with a freaking tank..
And btw. every single girlfriend i have ever had would love to get married and have a baby asap.
It's not like it's a f*cking achivement to accomplish that, it's rather something men just accept sooner or later when they wanna end their life.

#76 Hankx

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostVoidbringer, on 06 November 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Jesus Christ what have I created.... TL;DR: Buff Rets! Nerf Warrior! ;]

what can i say more? ur damn right!

a class with brainless gameplay can't be that op all they do is "TARGET POP CDS ... Dead!"

gg game ends

#77 Hankx

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 07 November 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

sry bud, too high on life for QQ



I have heard bliz does read posts from community forums, however if you were to put yourself in blizzard's shoes, which post would you be more likely to take on board and action; the post filled with unconstructive or unrealistic requests and complaint, or the one providing specific suggestions that can possibly be implemented without much difficulty?

I agree that a large post with multiple good suggestions and +1 on it has more sway than a smaller one. Looking at the paladin forums, it feels more like a whole bunch of smaller forums with only a couple pages of suggestions and replies, most of which are not that serious. People would be better off starting a forum thread or poll for ret paladin suggestions on the bliz forums, and link that forum to all the smaller threads relating to the QQ. if it is all in the one place (a place where bliz will check first) then action is more likely to happen.



I agree the game lacks balance, having said that i dont believe the imbalance is so severe that achieving high ratings as ret is impossible. Vanguards has managed it, and he is just another wow player. granted, he pours his entire being into gaming and ret, but he proves its possible given enough work.



Rather than make it baseline, i would suggest incorporating this into unbreakable spirit. That talent is designed moreso around personal survivability after all.



all of my want.

View Postoriginalret, on 06 November 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

At this point, im wondering what the OP was trying to achieve here.
If their aim was to start a whinge thread, they succeeded. hell, we even got frost DK's come all the way from their own forum here to come bitch too!

Now i hate to be a Buzz Killington here and stomp all over the QQ, but lets try to be proactive here and offer potential solutions:


Well bubble will take off all but banishment. consider using clemency for more access to bubble and against physical teams do your best to keep your healer in a HOP to prevent physical based CC on them.


Ret's have been the primary target for arena for some time. Against casters i suggest saving your DP for a long stun, and saving HoP (or saving your forbearance) for physical burst, like warrior blenders (those guys cant shatter throw while they spinning)


Damage for most classes is very gear dependant. without being able to see your armoury i wouldnt be able to offer any specific advice other than "keep at it until you have more gear" however some tips i can suggest would be:
- pair up with a more sustainable dps. both of you do what you can to pressure someone to 50% hp, THEN you swifty. most people dont have the reaction time to deter/block/bubble when that happens.
- dont just save FoJ for your finishing act, especially against healers. wait for their interrupt-immunity buff then fire it.
- make sure you are monitoring defensive CD's on your target. If you notice them fire off their defensives before you hit wings, maybe consider kiting/LoS'ing until its worn off, then take em down.

All of the above is open to discussion as i am sure some more seasoned players will have more on-hands experience than myself in some of the above-mentioned situations. I am happy to continue discussing it until we reach a point where i cant offer any other effective solutions. If we reach that point, thats when i will suggest every person actively interested in seeing ret's change make their suggestions somewhere bliz may actually take notice of it. That place, is not AJ forums.

TL;DR
your complaining, not looking for a solution. this is pointless.

try asking for help/suggestions to specific problems, ie survivability

if you get no help, go post on bliz forums/lodge a game suggestion.


I really wanna talk with you if you achive 2.2 this season as ret... or 2.1 maybe? when you do that then come and try to be"the cool guy that knows everything"    #010




#78 Hankx

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:00 PM

Am not trying to make any suggestions am trying to prove whats wrong to blizz since its not my job ... we show them what's wrong and they must fix whats wrong ... or let them quit working if we work for them..

#79 Icesinz

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

People need to stop complaining about specs for much, any dps spec can get high rated with proper teammates.
Only problem is the spineless cowards who reroll every patch because leveling alts is retardedly easy.

#80 originalret

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:58 PM

Quote

That's not the point, ur bragging about ur adult life towards some immature kids who watch Jersey shore and wear baggy jeans, while never seen a pair of boobs irl.
That's like hunting rabbits with a freaking tank..
And btw. every single girlfriend i have ever had would love to get married and have a baby asap.
It's not like it's a f*cking achivement to accomplish that, it's rather something men just accept sooner or later when they wanna end their life.

This kind of crap is what i was referring to when i mentioned bliz are more likely to ignore a forum if it contains petty arguements. This is now turning into a pissing contest.

View PostHankx, on 07 November 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

I really wanna talk with you if you achive 2.2 this season as ret... or 2.1 maybe? when you do that then come and try to be"the cool guy that knows everything" #010




My apologies for trying to give you some advice to hopefully assist with your problem. I now know better than to try offer advice to people who read "All of the above is open to discussion as i am sure some more seasoned players will have more on-hands experience than myself" and respond with "come and try to be'the cool guy that knows everything'"





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