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Blood Horror + Spell Reflect (annoying that it actually counters it)

Training no casting tunnelvision Warlocks Warriors

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#41 shunke

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

View PostDoctor M, on 25 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Spell Reflection is off the global cooldown :  |

I know. But when he press MS with his middlefinger and tracks buffs he might not reflect the blood horror. And I know the gladiatorlosxa makes spell reflect too easy to use against warlocks. Maybe I just shut the fuck up then..

#42 Freshlemons7474

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostPaulweezy, on 21 October 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

More annoying then getting mindlessly trained all game?
i like you, and this is very true. its bad enough warriors can pve warlocks to death without thinking a single thought.

#43 Draax

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:04 PM

So are you referring to a 1v1, Or do you have team mates that could help peel? You mentioned putting blood horror up while you setup gate, that is just asking to get reflected. You should have your team help stop the charge (most classes can do this)

Blood Horror can not be zerker raged out of either, if you don't keep blood horror up on cool down for them to reflect then you should be able to get it off and when you do it should be full duration unless they are on Mortal Coil or Psychic Horror DR.

As a warrior it's basically a guessing game as to when a good warlock is going to pop blood horror. You have to pre-reflect before he casts the spell. Think of it in the same sense as fear ward, if a priest runs around with fear ward up you are most likely going to wait until it gets dispelled. However if the priest casts fear ward as he sees another priest running in to fear then it was a skilled usage of the ability. Same can be said for blood horror. It's all about timing.

As far as spell reflect only working for instant cast spells... that's just silly. Granted if you've been playing a Warrior for a long time it is rather common to reflect deep freeze, Mortal Coil, Death Grip, ect. That would make the skill completly useless for new to moderate players. Imagine if you could only "lock out" instant cast spells with your pet...

With all that being said, warriors have always been a counter to warlocks. But currently there is no real counter to warriors and they do need some tuning. Blizzard has already addressed that they are "looking into it" which will most likely mean they will over compensate and make warriors dissapear again (has happened for the last few seasons warriors have been viable).
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#44 shunke

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostDraax, on 25 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

So are you referring to a 1v1, Or do you have team mates that could help peel? You mentioned putting blood horror up while you setup gate, that is just asking to get reflected. You should have your team help stop the charge (most classes can do this)

Blood Horror can not be zerker raged out of either, if you don't keep blood horror up on cool down for them to reflect then you should be able to get it off and when you do it should be full duration unless they are on Mortal Coil or Psychic Horror DR.

As a warrior it's basically a guessing game as to when a good warlock is going to pop blood horror. You have to pre-reflect before he casts the spell. Think of it in the same sense as fear ward, if a priest runs around with fear ward up you are most likely going to wait until it gets dispelled. However if the priest casts fear ward as he sees another priest running in to fear then it was a skilled usage of the ability. Same can be said for blood horror. It's all about timing.

As far as spell reflect only working for instant cast spells... that's just silly. Granted if you've been playing a Warrior for a long time it is rather common to reflect deep freeze, Mortal Coil, Death Grip, ect. That would make the skill completly useless for new to moderate players. Imagine if you could only "lock out" instant cast spells with your pet...

With all that being said, warriors have always been a counter to warlocks. But currently there is no real counter to warriors and they do need some tuning. Blizzard has already addressed that they are "looking into it" which will most likely mean they will over compensate and make warriors dissapear again (has happened for the last few seasons warriors have been viable).

Pretty much this. Good warlocks will get blood horrors to warrior and they use felflame to get reflects etc. But bad warrior can still reflect blood horrors.

One tip for warlocks. Dont gate if warrior has heroic leap and CHARGE. Because you will die. Try burn their charge or leap with teleporting los and after that gate so they dont have both of those after you have gated. Otherwise they will catch you and just mindlesly pop disrupting shout and you guys are dead.

Also dont gate before recklessness if your healer doesnt have trinket. Gateing means you dont have really good out of jail card anymore.
Just burn charges and leaps and ask your friend to help you.

#45 Speedymart

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 24 October 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Lol thanks for the pro tip.  I'll blow a cast time + shard + highest damaging direct cast ability to soak a warrior reflect that has a 25 sec CD.

I think I'll stick with fel flame.

I don't think you unstand what I was getting at. I mean just juke a casted ability to cause a reflect then pop it off with fel flame.

Druids do it all the time with cyclone these days. I've had games where they'd juke cyclone 4-6 times in a row just to force reflect

Quote

But when he press MS with his middlefinger and tracks buffs he might not reflect the blood horror.

Tracking debuffs? I just hit whatever lights up first

Edited by Speedymart, 25 October 2013 - 02:38 PM.

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#46 Tya

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostSpeedymart, on 25 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I don't think you unstand what I was getting at. I mean just juke a casted ability to cause a reflect then pop it off with fel flame.

Druids do it all the time with cyclone these days. I've had games where they'd juke cyclone 4-6 times in a row just to force reflect



Tracking debuffs? I just hit whatever lights up first

Juke the pummel first to get to the spell reflect. Now juke the disrupting shout. Then juke the shockwave/storm bolt, juke the pummel again, juke a charge stun if the warrior is feeling like looking at the screen, juke fear, juke pummel again, juke OMG SPELL REFLECT BLOOD HORROR TIME np mass spell reflect.

Yeah no.
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#47 Gimotqt

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostTya, on 25 October 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Juke the pummel first to get to the spell reflect. Now juke the disrupting shout. Then juke the shockwave/storm bolt, juke the pummel again, juke a charge stun if the warrior is feeling like looking at the screen, juke fear, juke pummel again, juke OMG SPELL REFLECT BLOOD HORROR TIME np mass spell reflect.

Yeah no.
if the only spell you have on ur bars is blood fear  you should lose anyway
not saying that wars arent too good

#48 Owslend

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

Warrior isn't your counterclass.... one bit... The fact that you use blood horror beginning of arena fights classifies you as a noob. I'm tired of casters not thinking out of the box and just rant out nerfs instead of learning to play. Maybe if you played other characters you would realize how to counterplay more.

#49 Tya

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostOwslend, on 25 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Warrior isn't your counterclass.... one bit... The fact that you use blood horror beginning of arena fights classifies you as a noob. I'm tired of casters not thinking out of the box and just rant out nerfs instead of learning to play. Maybe if you played other characters you would realize how to counterplay more.

This is the kind of post you'd see on http://www.mmo-champion.com

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#50 Rtf

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostOwslend, on 25 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Warrior isn't your counterclass.... one bit... The fact that you use blood horror beginning of arena fights classifies you as a noob. I'm tired of casters not thinking out of the box and just rant out nerfs instead of learning to play. Maybe if you played other characters you would realize how to counterplay more.

Lol.

#51 asdjbasf122

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

View Postjaimex, on 19 October 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm sorry but you can't really complain. Right now warriors have two reflects on short cds to counter the whole spriest damage mechanic so.

+Rep for that sig :D

#52 Pwnzlol

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:48 AM

i prebuff blood horror always.

/cancelaura blood horror when he charges in with spell reflect.

/cast blood horror after reflect.

profit.

#53 Mindllapse

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:14 AM

yeah it's dumb that warriors can spell reflect blood horror, but it is even dumber that I can cancel it and make him waste spell reflect which fucks him over even harder in a spellcleave comp

if he doesn't reflect it you can just cast it again which is just as good anyways

it's good design as long as you can outplay it

#54 Zeralis

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:17 AM

View PostMindllapse, on 27 January 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

yeah it's dumb that warriors can spell reflect blood horror, but it is even dumber that I can cancel it and make him waste spell reflect which fucks him over even harder in a spellcleave comp

if he doesn't reflect it you can just cast it again which is just as good anyways

it's good design as long as you can outplay it

I can agree that the mechanic itself is cool, and proves some kind of skill from both ends. But at some point you gotta look in perspective, with a warrior that blood horror is the only 3-4 seconds im going to have him off me. I do use the cancelaura most of the time, and even in the middle of games i have experienced warriors that probably use GladiatorLosa and or are really fast just doing a quick reflect. They can more or less endlessly stay on their target. Either take away some damage or utility.

#55 Zeralis

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:17 AM

View PostPwnzlol, on 27 January 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

i prebuff blood horror always.

/cancelaura blood horror when he charges in with spell reflect.

/cast blood horror after reflect.

profit.

Agreed

#56 Persephones

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:18 PM

The Warrior class is already disgustingly braindead, removing small things like this would simply dumb the class even further down (rofl is this even possible). I don't see why you'd need to change the mechanic when you can simply cancelaura or use it as he's buttonsmashing you.

Edited by Persephones, 28 January 2014 - 12:19 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#57 Malysqt

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:38 PM

Not siding with warriors here, but if you know how to use blood horror properly it should very rarely be reflected, at least from my experiences. It's not meant as something to be used off cooldown randomly.

#58 Saikx

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:42 PM

View PostPwnzlol, on 27 January 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

i prebuff blood horror always.

/cancelaura blood horror when he charges in with spell reflect.

/cast blood horror after reflect.

profit.

that threadnecro 2 months later, WTF DUDE?

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#59 Swankie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

View PostZeralis, on 19 October 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Hi, the issue is simple and probably something a lot of us warlocks are going through right now in the current meta of arenas. Which is to face our ultimate counter class which is Warriors. I'm not claiming i have the insights needed to say that this is so out of hand, but in my personal opnion i think blood horror should be stuck on me as a saviour to get away from melee for the 3 seconds that it does, so I can actually get 1 cast off every now and then.

The playstyles were forced to do is to either use our cc like coil/shadowfury to be able to get a fear and or haunt on targets..

As warriors already are counters to our fears + loads of interrupts on low cd, i think that the removal off blood horror being reflected onto the warlock if the warrior uses spell reflect should at most counter the effect by removing it. But not actually horror me instead..

The lockdown is big enough as is. Share your opnion please..


TL:DR:

Locks being locked down by warriors to much already, make blood horror not spell reflectable.

View PostZeralis, on 19 October 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Hi, the issue is simple and probably something a lot of us warlocks are going through right now in the current meta of arenas. Which is to face our ultimate counter class which is Warriors. I'm not claiming i have the insights needed to say that this is so out of hand, but in my personal opnion i think blood horror should be stuck on me as a saviour to get away from melee for the 3 seconds that it does, so I can actually get 1 cast off every now and then.

The playstyles were forced to do is to either use our cc like coil/shadowfury to be able to get a fear and or haunt on targets..

As warriors already are counters to our fears + loads of interrupts on low cd, i think that the removal off blood horror being reflected onto the warlock if the warrior uses spell reflect should at most counter the effect by removing it. But not actually horror me instead..

The lockdown is big enough as is. Share your opnion please..


TL:DR:

Locks being locked down by warriors to much already, make blood horror not spell reflectable.


Sucks being on the receiving end of that broken ass ability, doesn't it?  Just remove it.

#60 Zeralis

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

View PostSwankie, on 28 January 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Sucks being on the receiving end of that broken ass ability, doesn't it?  Just remove it.

Have you read anything but the starting paragraph, stated atleast once that it is an issue with the warriors and that the ability is far to good against some other melee like rogue's




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