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New match-end mechanic will screw DKs over


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#21 Evilcow

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:26 AM

View PostDarthgnoe, on 10 October 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

yes but the overall dmg shouldn't stay the same, it should be higher. as it is for all other classes, that's the entire point of this debuff

The tie-breaker only reduces the absorb component of Necrotic, not it's damage.
So your overall damage will go up as the debuff stacks and your Necrotic absorbs will stay the same.

View Postndwrayzor, on 10 October 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

How can they compare MS with NS? The main Damage from Warriors doesn't come from MS, but Necrotic Strike does the Damage for Dk...

MS is a % based debuff, so it doesn't need to be scale down with healing.

#22 Elorxo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

who actually gives a fuck?

dks are insane in 2s anyway right now

#23 Noname

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

Worst case scenario of getting screwed is that you'll end up with AIDS. Since DK's are in fact the soul definition of AIDS I would say that you're probably okay.
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#24 Owslend

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

because Necrotic Strike isn't op enough right? I remember when they butchered MS debuff and all sudden came up with that insanely op ability. I'd prefer if dk's got better utility/ decent/more consistent execute and that shit deleted.

#25 tofu

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:21 AM

He's right.  It makes no sense to have Necrotic Strike affected by this debuff just because it's pressure comes in the form of negation of heals.  Yes heals will be weaker as the debuff stacks, and yes Necrotic Strike will stack up unhealable amounts of healing negation, just like damaging abilities will become unhealable and eventually kill the target.  That's the whole point of this debuff.  If NS remains affected by this debuff it will cripple DK pressure vs. every other class once the healing debuff becomes active.

#26 Capers

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostForumz, on 10 October 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

I suppose I was too optimistic regarding people's reading capabilities.

It's because you're talking about a melee. If this was a post about mages or warlocks, everyone would be in here supporting you.
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#27 Frostwor

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:28 AM

View Posttofu, on 14 October 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

He's right.  It makes no sense to have Necrotic Strike affected by this debuff just because it's pressure comes in the form of negation of heals.  Yes heals will be weaker as the debuff stacks, and yes Necrotic Strike will stack up unhealable amounts of healing negation, just like damaging abilities will become unhealable and eventually kill the target.  That's the whole point of this debuff.  If NS remains affected by this debuff it will cripple DK pressure vs. every other class once the healing debuff becomes active.

And how will it cripple you when it scales the same way healing does?!  I guess somebody missed high school math lessons. You will absorb the same amount of healing % wise. The hit your necro does will go up so you actually get more damage with the same % of absorbtion. Its like saying mortal strike will do less damage because it wont reduce 100k heals but 90k heals.



This thread is brain damaged i cant believe people complain about a nerf on all classes. Ooh noes my conversion wont heal me god mode well guess what so wont my renew.

#28 Capers

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:33 AM

View PostFrostwor, on 14 October 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

And how will it cripple you when it scales the same way healing does?!  I guess somebody missed high school math lessons. You will absorb the same amount of healing % wise. The hit your necro does will go up so you actually get more damage with the same % of absorbtion. Its like saying mortal strike will do less damage because it wont reduce 100k heals but 90k heals.



This thread is brain damaged i cant believe people complain about a nerf on all classes. Ooh noes my conversion wont heal me god mode well guess what so wont my renew.

View PostFrostwor, on 14 October 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

And how will it cripple you when it scales the same way healing does?!  I guess somebody missed high school math lessons. You will absorb the same amount of healing % wise. The hit your necro does will go up so you actually get more damage with the same % of absorbtion. Its like saying mortal strike will do less damage because it wont reduce 100k heals but 90k heals.



This thread is brain damaged i cant believe people complain about a nerf on all classes. Ooh noes my conversion wont heal me god mode well guess what so wont my renew.

View PostFrostwor, on 14 October 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

And how will it cripple you when it scales the same way healing does?!  I guess somebody missed high school math lessons. You will absorb the same amount of healing % wise. The hit your necro does will go up so you actually get more damage with the same % of absorbtion. Its like saying mortal strike will do less damage because it wont reduce 100k heals but 90k heals.



This thread is brain damaged i cant believe people complain about a nerf on all classes. Ooh noes my conversion wont heal me god mode well guess what so wont my renew.

It's because everyone's net damage goes up more because theirs isn't being reduced. Yeah only part of Necro strike will get the dampening aspect on it, but NO part of, say, a warriors mortal strike (to use your example) will feel the dampen. Lets say my Necro strike does 20k damage, and 40k absorb, and MS does 50k damage. The dampen the reduces (idk the numbers just pulling random things out) my damage from 60k total, to 50k total, to 40k total, etc. While the MS damage just stays at a static 50k. So yes, my damage still is hitting, but it's getting nerfed while other classes do not have to feel this.
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#29 Ownu

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:17 PM

The class that is probably least effected by this is hunter, but generally speaking the classes that are not effected by this as much as others are squishy classes anyway. This debuff wont screw Dks over, and I welcome it over the retards chose you

#30 Udderly

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:32 PM

I will be biased for a second and just say.....shut up.  Seriously, shut up.  DK's do INSANE damage in 2s, which is really the only place this buff will matter for 99.999% of games and right now a dk is a freaking damage machine.  It isn't balanced?  so what, i don't care.  

Math doesn't matter.  Fair doesn't matter.  Enjoy your cheerios.

#31 Frostwor

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:15 PM

View PostCapers, on 14 October 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

It's because everyone's net damage goes up more because theirs isn't being reduced. Yeah only part of Necro strike will get the dampening aspect on it, but NO part of, say, a warriors mortal strike (to use your example) will feel the dampen. Lets say my Necro strike does 20k damage, and 40k absorb, and MS does 50k damage. The dampen the reduces (idk the numbers just pulling random things out) my damage from 60k total, to 50k total, to 40k total, etc. While the MS damage just stays at a static 50k. So yes, my damage still is hitting, but it's getting nerfed while other classes do not have to feel this.

Ok obviously you are special so let me help u.

Flash Heal Heals a friendly target for 12619 to 14664 (+ 131.4% of Spell power).
NS deals 100% weapon damage, absorbs the next (100 / 100 * Attack power)
Mortal strike that deals 175% weapon damage

Ok now lets do a bit of math the average absorb of necro atm should be around 40k + your 100% weapon damage depending on your gear and professions.
Now for easier math lets say flash heals for 100k every time.
MS does 175% weapon damage and 25% on reduction of heals.

Ok lets start add numbers.  Here I will keep necrotic absorbtion the same.

Flash                                 MS                                                  NS                              %of absorbtion per flash
100k                            175%+25%red                            100%+ 40k absorb                    40%

90k                              185% + 22.5k                             110% + 40k absorb                   45%

80k                              195% + 20k                                120% + 40k absorb                   50%

70k                              205% + 17.5k                             130% + 40k absorb                    62%

And so on.

So suddenly your dumb ass necrotic absorbs from 40% to 62% of a heal when ms does 25%? Now before you say yeah but mortal strike does more damage dont forget that dk has 10000 more strikes that do insane damage. Necrotics have always been there to build pressure but with this new system the GCD worth of one necrotic per one heal becomes nearly double only with 30% of the damage boosted in. Also I dont know if you know but Blizzard balances necrotic strike with the average healing input of a healer. So when healers get nerfed so should necrotic get nerfed or scales insanely. Now please for the love of god stop talking bullshit.

#32 Forumz

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:24 PM

50% healing reduction is the same as 100% damage increase (ignoring the change to pace of the game for argument's sake)

Warrior does 100k damage > 50% healing/absorb reduc > 200k damage.

DK does 30k damage + 70k healing absorb > 50% healing/absorb reduc > 60k damage + 70k healing absorb > 130k damage

DK damage decreases over time compared to other classes' damage. Not sure why people don't see this.

Again though, it's not like DKs need the damage anyway.
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#33 tofu

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:45 PM

Instead of looking at it from the perspective Necrotic Strike healing mitigation vs. pure damage, simply look at it as "pressure."  DK's put out X amount of pressure compared to Warriors, Rogues, Mages, etc.  Only one variable is changing with this new healing debuff, and that's healing output.  There is no reason why DK pressure (X) should be decreased, but Warrior/Rogue/Mage/Lock pressure (also X) should stay the same.  Just because the mechanic is different should not matter.  If Necrotic Strike is so overpowered compared to other classes it should be addressed at the core mechanic ability level, not lumped in with a healing debuff that only affects heals and lump in one damage ability (necrotic strike) just because it's pressure mechanic is to absorb healing rather than direct damage.

#34 Darthgnoe

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:02 PM

Lafu seems to be the only person so far to get what I mean, everyone else in this thread that doesn't get it is seriously fuckin stupid. Either you nerf necrotic strike at a core level or you just don't touch it cause it makes no sense to nerf it when the whole point of dampening is increasing relative dmg

#35 Evilcow

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:04 PM

View Posttofu, on 14 October 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Instead of looking at it from the perspective Necrotic Strike healing mitigation vs. pure damage, simply look at it as "pressure."  DK's put out X amount of pressure compared to Warriors, Rogues, Mages, etc.  Only one variable is changing with this new healing debuff, and that's healing output.  There is no reason why DK pressure (X) should be decreased, but Warrior/Rogue/Mage/Lock pressure (also X) should stay the same.  Just because the mechanic is different should not matter.  If Necrotic Strike is so overpowered compared to other classes it should be addressed at the core mechanic ability level, not lumped in with a healing debuff that only affects heals and lump in one damage ability (necrotic strike) just because it's pressure mechanic is to absorb healing rather than direct damage.

By that logic offensive dispels will also suffer with Dampening, since the shields you will be dispeling will be smaller...

My quick&rough math shows that reducing Necrotic Strike by ~2/3 the value of Dampening should be enough.
So that would be 40% reduction to the Necrotic Strike absorb effect when Dampening is at 60%, but tbh if they don't overnerf it you'll probably see Double DK teams trying to go for 10mins+ games for easy wins...

#36 Capers

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

View Posttofu, on 14 October 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Instead of looking at it from the perspective Necrotic Strike healing mitigation vs. pure damage, simply look at it as "pressure."  DK's put out X amount of pressure compared to Warriors, Rogues, Mages, etc.  Only one variable is changing with this new healing debuff, and that's healing output.  There is no reason why DK pressure (X) should be decreased, but Warrior/Rogue/Mage/Lock pressure (also X) should stay the same.  Just because the mechanic is different should not matter.  If Necrotic Strike is so overpowered compared to other classes it should be addressed at the core mechanic ability level, not lumped in with a healing debuff that only affects heals and lump in one damage ability (necrotic strike) just because it's pressure mechanic is to absorb healing rather than direct damage.

Exactly. I don't see how people don't understand that the problem is that one class's damage shouldn't be reduced from this, while everyone else's stays the same. It's not a matter of whether Necro strike is OP, it's about one class being nerfed from this mechanic and everything else going untouched. DK's should be proportionally less scary with this buff than other classes. The entire point of dampening is to make the damage classes become OP so things will die after 10 minutes. What good does a healing debuff do if your main source of pressure/damage gets nerfed along side it? Yeah you're still doing more damage as whole, but other classes are going to outscale you eventually because their damage isn't getting touched.
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#37 Gamegon

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:48 AM

As plenty of other players are mentioning here, the games won't last 10+ mins for dks in 2s. Especially when we'll gain full gear. Infact, there wouldn't be so many TCCY games in 2s if we had full gear. The first few weeks was cause we never had the gear needed for the current season resilience, I guess that's why there was so much frustration.




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