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Sub 5.4 Mini Guide to Damage or Why do I hit like a wet noodle?

rogue beginner sub subtlety guide

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#21 Dethz

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:24 PM

dope guide

#22 JackSmith

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

View PostSadRogue, on 25 November 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

WOW Whoop-ie-fooking-do,,,,A opener,wtf about the rest of it,,,,SRSLY calling me cancerous???   At least i can fooking read whats in front of me bro,,,What about the rest of it???  SRSLY it is pretty fucking sad a kid like u cant even read a fooking post!!!!!


Yeah kid,,,slow down and learn to read a post ..ALL OF IT.....wtf some tosser,
make a 180 and NEVER turn around please
Just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man name.

#23 glonglon

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:40 AM

Great guide, thanks.

But as Rohle said it would be great if you could give us more insight about the openers with Subterfuge and the Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins. (Regular opener & burst opener with shd+mfd).

Regards.

Posted Image


#24 seizureman18

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:18 AM

View Postglonglon, on 22 December 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Great guide, thanks.

But as Rohle said it would be great if you could give us more insight about the openers with Subterfuge and the Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins. (Regular opener & burst opener with shd+mfd).

Regards.

Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> (Pop dance for 40 energy ambush) -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Kidney -> MFD -> Eviscerate -> Ambush -> (Garrote if caster or Ambush again if non caster)

#25 aikens

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

nice job

#26 PriestRSC

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:38 AM

I know you briefly mention it, and I'm not sure if this is continuing to be updated, but I think a dedicated section should be added related to Find Weakness and/or Rupture.

I don't feel like starting a flame war on me, but a lot of people underestimate the living hell out of rupture's damage (Evic is 3590350x better if you have find weakness and/or they're in a stun). If we're all speccing mastery though, we should probably use that other finisher...

#27 Qyoyz

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:17 AM

View Postseizureman18, on 28 December 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> (Pop dance for 40 energy ambush) -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Kidney -> MFD -> Eviscerate -> Ambush -> (Garrote if caster or Ambush again if non caster)

I prefer backstab instead of ambush in subterfuge, one ambush and two backstabs... it seems to be more "cheap"

Edited by Qyoyz, 18 January 2014 - 05:56 AM.


#28 Nightra

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:17 AM

View Postseizureman18, on 28 December 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> (Pop dance for 40 energy ambush) -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Kidney -> MFD -> Eviscerate -> Ambush -> (Garrote if caster or Ambush again if non caster)


This helped me out immensely. Thank you for this.

Side note -- I had a friend in-game tell me that I should do:
Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> MFD -> Kidney -> Dance -> etc etc

My question is: what's the advantage to popping dance and ambush x2, then Kidney  rather than just using MFD to get a full kidney?

(please pardon my ignorance here, I'm brand new to pvp rogue)

#29 seizureman18

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 05:10 AM

View PostQyoyz, on 18 January 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

I prefer backstab instead of ambush in subterfuge, one ambush and two backstabs... it seems to be more "cheap"

I've done the math. Backstab is bad. After your Cheap Shot -> Rupture you need to gain 5 combo points for a Kidney Shot in the space of 2/2.5 seconds (glyphed).

View PostNightra, on 23 January 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

This helped me out immensely. Thank you for this.

Side note -- I had a friend in-game tell me that I should do:
Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> MFD -> Kidney -> Dance -> etc etc

My question is: what's the advantage to popping dance and ambush x2, then Kidney  rather than just using MFD to get a full kidney?

(please pardon my ignorance here, I'm brand new to pvp rogue)

I don't understand this opener. You are using Cheap Shot (4s or 4.5s duration with glyph), Rupturing after (1s GCD) and then using MFD -> Kidney in the 2 or 2.5 seconds of stun you have left? Why not do damage? (I just tested this in game. With that opener you actually cap your energy at 130/130 so you are losing more potential damage.)

Also, I would say it is much better to use 90% of your dance duration while the target is in your Cheap Shot / Kidney Shot.

For example, you could try using your friends opener vs a warrior and pop your Shadow Dance as your 3 second Kidney Shot lands. After the kidney the warrior Shockwaves you and waste the remainder of your dance. A warlock could port away, a druid can displacer / Roar, mage can blazing speed, rogue can Vanish etc etc.

Assuming you are using Prey on the Weak, to maximize the potential of this talent, you need to do damage into your stuns, otherwise the talent is useless.

Doing damage as a rogue is about using your energy as efficiently as possible and your cooldowns as well timed as possible.

Hope this helped.

#30 cubas

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:36 AM

View Postseizureman18, on 28 December 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> (Pop dance for 40 energy ambush) -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Kidney -> MFD -> Eviscerate -> Ambush -> (Garrote if caster or Ambush again if non caster)

Doesnt make any sense to use rupture instead of hemo in this case (with glyph of hemo).
:rogue: kidz

#31 seizureman18

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 04:00 PM

View Postcubas, on 23 January 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

Doesnt make any sense to use rupture instead of hemo in this case (with glyph of hemo).

Please read my other posts before criticizing when you are clearly wrong.

#32 Nightra

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:27 PM

View Postseizureman18, on 23 January 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

I've done the math. Backstab is bad. After your Cheap Shot -> Rupture you need to gain 5 combo points for a Kidney Shot in the space of 2/2.5 seconds (glyphed).



I don't understand this opener. You are using Cheap Shot (4s or 4.5s duration with glyph), Rupturing after (1s GCD) and then using MFD -> Kidney in the 2 or 2.5 seconds of stun you have left? Why not do damage? (I just tested this in game. With that opener you actually cap your energy at 130/130 so you are losing more potential damage.)

Also, I would say it is much better to use 90% of your dance duration while the target is in your Cheap Shot / Kidney Shot.

For example, you could try using your friends opener vs a warrior and pop your Shadow Dance as your 3 second Kidney Shot lands. After the kidney the warrior Shockwaves you and waste the remainder of your dance. A warlock could port away, a druid can displacer / Roar, mage can blazing speed, rogue can Vanish etc etc.

Assuming you are using Prey on the Weak, to maximize the potential of this talent, you need to do damage into your stuns, otherwise the talent is useless.

Doing damage as a rogue is about using your energy as efficiently as possible and your cooldowns as well timed as possible.

Hope this helped.

Thank you. This did help. Like I said, I'm brand new to rogue pvp (I usually play a disc priest).

When I was told to use cheap shot early, I just assumed that since they were stunned, I'd have more time to get the rest of the opener done (ignorance here) -- not really fully understanding that I was wasting energy and not putting out the damage that I should be.

Again, thank you for the clarification. These forums have been a big help so far.

I did have one additional question, if you have a moment.  I was also told that I should avoid using hemo if at all possible -- unless I just can't find a way to get behind my target for backstab. Is this also true? I think I may have been given some bad advice in-game here.

#33 seizureman18

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:33 AM

Only use Hemo when you need to get a bleed on your target or when you cannot get behind your target. Backstab is more efficient in terms of energy.

#34 Hideaki

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:37 PM

As a newbie rogue I thank you for this great guide!

Edit: Typo

Edited by Hideaki, 25 February 2014 - 05:49 PM.


#35 hekumzx

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:45 PM

When I saw mini guide, I was almost certain this would be the whole guide,

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A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

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Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#36 vicao

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:03 PM

View Postseizureman18, on 28 December 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Premed -> Slice -> Cheap Shot -> Rupture -> (Pop dance for 40 energy ambush) -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Kidney -> MFD -> Eviscerate -> Ambush -> (Garrote if caster or Ambush again if non caster)

thanks you! this macro is insane!
But when is the best time to use Shadow Blades?

you have a macro for a second open when MfD and Dance is on cooldown?

thank you sir!

#37 akatyrone

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

why do people use the hemo glyph for sang veins? rupture costs 5 less energy and has a 40% chance to give you 25 energy if used right after cheapshot (2 combo point relentless strikes) plus cheapshot duration is reduced assuming you would otherwise glyph into cheapshot, is there something im missing?

Edited by akatyrone, 10 April 2014 - 10:04 PM.


#38 mirag

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

Hemo gives combopoints. Rupture costs combopoints.
That being said. Im still not sure whats best.
I use hemo mainly becouse it feels more smooth and im lazy.

#39 seizureman18

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:05 AM

View Postmirag, on 11 April 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Hemo gives combopoints. Rupture costs combopoints.
That being said. Im still not sure whats best.
I use hemo mainly becouse it feels more smooth and im lazy.

Same. I would be shocked if they dont add Sang. Vein glyph baseline in WoD.





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