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#1 Hyuru

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:10 AM

Hi, I just started playing WoW again after a short break (3-4 months) and I decided to reroll mage because I'm playing with ~~150 ping.

What are you guys doing vs Melee Cleaves atm? It just seems that every class got too many outs of all my novas/slows, and is it even worth trying to set up burst with 5 Icicles? Or should I just push out dmg whenever I can (got 2x FoF+FFB proccs etc).

Ive done some games of 3s and it seems that every team is literally only sitting on my dick, barely touching any other member of my party, is this normal? Atm it feels as I dont have any room for error, whilst the melee cleaves can do a million mistakes and still win.

Would be nice if some more experienced mage could give me a pointer on what I could be doing to improve my gameplay ^_^
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#2 JamesDean

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:43 AM

Melee cleave have always been able to do a million mistakes and still win..
But yeah, the new icicles means mages  can only rely on altertime burst now and got no substainable pressure...

#3 Hateformz

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:48 AM

View PostJamesDean, on 24 September 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Melee cleave have always been able to do a million mistakes and still win..
excuse you

#4 Alexandrius

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

Kite while ccing healer with instant cc ie.  deep, Pom poly, blanket cs.  Counter ham their ham with a alter time at full hp.  When you alter back temporal shield when you anticipate they are delivering the d to your front doorstep.  Iceblock when you run out of novas/peels and drs.  Pray to god your initial burst of you or your partner got enough trinkets and defensives for you to 1 shot the initial target when you come out of iceblock with instant cc ie. deep freeze and blanket onto the healer.  Works best when you play with a Mongol damage dealer who can pressure by his or her self. That is the basics of how your games will go If you play perfectly.  Obv not all games go like this but most generally feel similar to this.  There's always exceptions.    Forgot to add:  things that will mess you up is alter getting purged Pom getting purged, not blocking/altering/blinking some insane dk necrotics etc.  just try to avoid necrotic stacking with your defensives especially with a rdruid healer currently as their burst output just isn't amazing yet.

Edited by Alexandrius, 24 September 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#5 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

Just going to drop some small tips because learning how to kite and cast efficiently against melee cleaves is something that comes with experience and is a lesson that can't really be absorbed through text. Much of how to play against cleaves largely depends on what you're playing, and the type of cleave the other team is playing, so if you have a specific cleave you're having trouble with, it'd be easier to give advice.

1) If you're playing with a class that can stun for you, always be looking for RoF opportunities. A common strat for me as WMD back in the day was get a double shockwave on the melee training me, RoF them, swap the healer hard with a charge>Deep+Orb, rinse repeat and keep forcing cooldowns

2) If you aren't playing with a class that will allow you to utilize RoF effectively, play Ice Ward. Seriously, it helps a ton. Its a seperate DR entirely from your novas, it becomes very simple to abuse dispel CD mechanics if a healer dispels a poly, a warrior breaks a ice ward root, then has to sit a full 8 second root, you can do a ton in 8 seconds.

Side note: When gates open, you can apply Ice Ward then invis, it lasts 30 seconds with a 20 second CD.

3) As Mage/Priest/X vs X/Feral/Healer, it is incredibly important to realize that your healer will most likely never be able to get effective fears on an intelligent healer, so the best way to relieve pressure and get counter pressure going is to fear the Feral on CD and covering it with a blanket/deep/poly on their healer.

4) Speaking of counter pressure, it is literally the only effective peel you have against some cleaves ( Mostly ones that can't be peeled anyway, like TSG or PHD ), make sure you aren't bursting into defensive cooldowns, its a no brainer, but its super important to take advantage of, cleaves tend to mongo their defensive CDs to stay offensive.

Everything you use to stay defensive is almost a setback, try to use your cooldowns as offensively and efficiently as possible, only alter time defensively if you have to, and if you have to, make sure you're getting the most out of it ( PoM+Alter, Poly healer, alter back, RoF both DPS for an offensive setup ). On that note, if you're going offensive, make sure you healer uses a CD to keep you up instead of you just blocking midway through your damage CDs.

5) Positioning is really key, keep pulling the cleave behind pillars, make their healer come out and be vulnerable, best way to make a cleave second guess themselves and capitalize.

6) If its a cleave where you HAVE to use everything defensively, have a set plan of how to space out your defensives i.e. Temp shield opener, block, alter time, temp shield, - healer CD -, block, etc. Thats not how you should do it every time, but think about whats going to work in your favor.

Really the key notes are to have your teammates CC for small windows to allow you breathing room to actually do stuff, stay offensive as you can, and abuse the fact that since they're training you, you ultimately control the positioning and flow of the entire game.

Edited by Xxlegolasxxz, 24 September 2013 - 10:18 PM.


#6 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:02 PM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 24 September 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

2) If you aren't playing with a class that will allow you to utilize RoF effectively, play Ice Ward. Seriously, it helps a ton. Its a seperate DR entirely from your novas, it becomes very simple to abuse dispel CD mechanics if a healer dispels a poly, a warrior breaks a ice ward root, then has to sit a full 8 second root, you can do a ton in 8 seconds.

Side note: When gates open, you can apply Ice Ward then invis, it lasts 30 seconds with a 20 second CD.
best tip you will see in this forum for a while

Hakfu said:

My personal opinion about why PHD/ATC/Beastcleave are not being that succesful on Tournaments is that in many cases it relies on the enemy making an error...In a sense, that makes them the underdog...Hunter's have never really been that OP. People just have the image that hunters should be something to be stomped over

#7 Hyuru

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 24 September 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

-snip-
Thanks, probably the most constructive post I've read on AJ in a long time.
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#8 glonglon

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:39 PM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 24 September 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:


2) If you aren't playing with a class that will allow you to utilize RoF effectively, play Ice Ward. Seriously, it helps a ton. Its a seperate DR entirely from your novas, it becomes very simple to abuse dispel CD mechanics if a healer dispels a poly, a warrior breaks a ice ward root, then has to sit a full 8 second root, you can do a ton in 8 seconds.

Can warriors reflect Ice Ward ?

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#9 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:42 PM

No, its an AOE spell like Frost Nova or whatever else falls in that class, those types of spells can't/arent reflected

#10 glonglon

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 28 September 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

No, its an AOE spell like Frost Nova or whatever else falls in that class, those types of spells can't/arent reflected
Thanks for this answer, I'll try it for sure.

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#11 kannetixx

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

shit i forgot about ice ward +1
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#12 glonglon

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:37 PM

Btw am I the only one having difficulties kiting warriors ?

What I do :

- Save blink for shockwave/stormbolt
- Snare him with mirror image
- Use blazing speed, ice ward & frost nova to counter double charge, leap & interv banner.


Am I doing something wrong ?

If someone could give some tips against warriors it would be great, thank you.

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#13 kannetixx

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:16 PM

View Postglonglon, on 09 October 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Btw am I the only one having difficulties kiting warriors ?

What I do :

- Save blink for shockwave/stormbolt
- Snare him with mirror image
- Use blazing speed, ice ward & frost nova to counter double charge, leap & interv banner.


Am I doing something wrong ?

If someone could give some tips against warriors it would be great, thank you.

id also watch out for dispels from healer - if you know the healer just dispelled you can nova warrior full 8 seconds.

warriors stick to people like glue and usually you have to utilize your movement with your partners ability to keep the warrior from you (RMP can easily do this)

a good warrior will you work for it - most warriors just blow all their shit the minute they see you and then complain that they cant catch up to anyone.
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#14 Numbtoes

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

Lately I have been running with blazing speed and ice ward. I think it give me enough time to actually get away and cast poly's against almost all melee cleave. Usually if they have  a ret or enhance I wont do this, but against any team with a warrior/dk this has been working for me. 3 roots and an extra escape is really strong, especially coupled with a druid healer.

Anyone else doing this aswell?

#15 zenton

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

Did some test with it and I have to agree with you, especially with Ice Ward. It's really useful (skilled players might however counter / juke it  with a priest Shadowfiend for example) and it does not share dr with nova.
As of Blazing Speed, I'm not sure. I mean it's a wonderful and great ability and it might be the go vs warr / dk / feral but dropping instant poly can hurt our cc. On the other hand, Blazing has a much shorter cd and it can also be useful to get in an offensive-polymorph position.

It's definitely viable.

#16 Karlottey

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostNumbtoes, on 12 October 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Lately I have been running with blazing speed and ice ward. I think it give me enough time to actually get away and cast poly's against almost all melee cleave. Usually if they have  a ret or enhance I wont do this, but against any team with a warrior/dk this has been working for me. 3 roots and an extra escape is really strong, especially coupled with a druid healer.

Anyone else doing this aswell?

Did this also. Really utilize the fact you can change glyphs and talents for every match. Tried Flameglow couple games also with full pvp resilience gemming, was kind of fun ! (Flameglow still ridiculously low defensive though)




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