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#21 Deliriumz

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostVeev, on 13 September 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Season X: Players have 1000 health, 100 DPS, and 125 HPS.  Resilience is at 75% damage reduction.
Season Y: Players have 2000 health, 200 DPS, and 250 HPS.  Resilience is at 75% damage reduction.

There is literally zero noticeable difference between the two seasons.  Your spells may hit harder, but they're hitting into a larger health pool and being outhealed equally as hard.  The problem arises, of course, when one of those scale faster than the others.

Yea I understand but thanks for breaking it down. As I was alluding to, it all comes down to scale factors for the new gear. I'm sure someone could do the math on it, isn't the stats for the new gear already released?

View PostGlink, on 13 September 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

I think once the gear gets added in things will be just about right, at least with the comps I play (cleaves and such). But I feel like caster mirrors or hybrid mirrors are going to easily pass the 15 minute mark, they even did in 5.4 when both teams had good players. I really cant see why people wont just abuse the hell out of the crowd chooses you bullshit, be it double healer comps, maybe triple healer, whatever the case. It really does nothing but encourage turtling and artificially alters the pace of the game.

Yea, in an important match, if say an rmp managed to nearly global someone (say to like 3%) in the opener, the strategy probably changes to turtle for 15 minutes and never try another swap again... And as peel-heavy as comps like rmp, rmd, mld, are.. that team would almost certainly succeed in doing so. I feel like it also benefits rdruid as their heart damage is the strongest healer dps in the game right now, they will probably be used to set up these turtle situations.

Edited by Deliriumz, 14 September 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#22 Structural

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

nice so can we expect to see you and zilea train something all game and complain later when you lose to a wizard?

#23 Murqa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:10 PM

View PostDeliriumz, on 13 September 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Yea I understand but thanks for breaking it down. As I was eluding to, it all comes down to scale factors for the new gear. I'm sure someone could do the math on it, isn't the stats for the new gear already released?

Health will increase by 20-25%. People will have close to 500k HP. Buffs and class specific buffs not included.

DPS scaling explodes, mind these numbers are patchwork fights with legendary metas, bufffood, flasks and stuff
~ 496 ilvl gear, average DPS around 100k in PvE (no legendaries, professions, racials etc not included)
~ 513 ilvl gear, average DPS 135k, "specials" included
~ 540 ivl gear, 210k+ DPS, specials included
+ SoO DPS easily reaches 300k+

Edited by Murqa, 13 September 2013 - 11:13 PM.


#24 Zilea

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:47 AM

View PostStructural, on 13 September 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

nice so can we expect to see you and zilea train something all game and complain later when you lose to a wizard?

The complaining will end as soon as wizard cleave dies out ;)

make my  class viable and one of veev's classes viable and i will have absolutely no problem with ever losing an arena match :)

Edited by Zilea, 14 September 2013 - 12:48 AM.


#25 Braindance

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:51 AM

You have no idea of what awaits  you when everyone is fully geared.

Enjoy it for now.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#26 Mageic

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:57 AM

View PostZilea, on 14 September 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

The complaining will end as soon as wizard cleave dies out ;)

make my  class viable and one of veev's classes viable and i will have absolutely no problem with ever losing an arena match :)

Are you saying jungle cleave was not viable last season?

#27 Deliriumz

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:00 AM

View PostZilea, on 14 September 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

The complaining will end as soon as wizard cleave dies out ;)

make my  class viable and one of veev's classes viable and i will have absolutely no problem with ever losing an arena match :)

View PostMageic, on 14 September 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Are you saying jungle cleave was not viable last season?

I know many pallys prefer to play melee comps, including you zilea, but your class was viable last season.

pally god comp was r1 on 2 bgs, and pally/lock/ele was r1 on another. you also tied for r1 as a cleave. Pretty sure another hpall got r1 on vengeance as well as a mix of kfc and jungle. how can you say the class wasn't viable?

Edited by Deliriumz, 14 September 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#28 leek

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:08 AM

I love mage so far in this patch, feels a lot more like a WotLK-ish playstyle like someone mentioned earlier, and the slower pace of the game makes it feel (to me, that is) that theres more room for outplaying your opponent (trying to not judge class balance at the moment, I feel like its way too early yet!) and making mistakes etc.

So far thumbs up blizz!

#29 Deliriumz

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostMurqa, on 13 September 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Health will increase by 20-25%. People will have close to 500k HP. Buffs and class specific buffs not included.

DPS scaling explodes, mind these numbers are patchwork fights with legendary metas, bufffood, flasks and stuff
~ 496 ilvl gear, average DPS around 100k in PvE (no legendaries, professions, racials etc not included)
~ 513 ilvl gear, average DPS 135k, "specials" included
~ 540 ivl gear, 210k+ DPS, specials included
+ SoO DPS easily reaches 300k+

This post makes it seem like if the scaling is unchanged, burst will dramatically increase with the acquisition of the new gear set.

#30 Zilea

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:22 AM

View PostDeliriumz, on 14 September 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

I know many pallys prefer to play melee comps, including you zilea, but your class was viable last season.

pally god comp was r1 on 2 bgs, and pally/lock/ele was r1 on another. you also tied for r1 as a cleave. Pretty sure another hpall got r1 on vengeance as well as a mix of kfc and jungle. how can you say the class wasn't viable?

Wizard cleave not being viable is pre-requisite numero uno (because it auto wins vs holy paladins)

#31 Braindance

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:26 AM

View Postleek, on 14 September 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I love mage so far in this patch, feels a lot more like a WotLK-ish playstyle like someone mentioned earlier, and the slower pace of the game makes it feel (to me, that is) that theres more room for outplaying your opponent (trying to not judge class balance at the moment, I feel like its way too early yet!) and making mistakes etc.

So far thumbs up blizz!
Yes mage this patch has room for outplaying. As in fishing for a pummel with frostbolt then landind full sheep. So you are faced with the wonderful dilemma of either letting him do full damage or get a full sheep.

Let me tell you about mages when you get full gear - you are the ONLY class that can solo ANYTHING every 30 seconds. Every deep with 5 icicles is a potential kill on ANYTHING, any healer, any dps or guaranteed defensive cooldowns. No other spec can do that every 30 seconds.

Mages are wotlkish, yes, but they are closer to wotlk elementals than wotlk mages. It's just sad how low mage skillcap became this expansion.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#32 Sabyth

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:30 AM

Damage was a lot higher on PTR. Health doesn't keep up with damage scaling at all.

#33 leek

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:01 AM

View PostBraindance, on 14 September 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Yes mage this patch has room for outplaying. As in fishing for a pummel with frostbolt then landind full sheep. So you are faced with the wonderful dilemma of either letting him do full damage or get a full sheep.

Let me tell you about mages when you get full gear - you are the ONLY class that can solo ANYTHING every 30 seconds. Every deep with 5 icicles is a potential kill on ANYTHING, any healer, any dps or guaranteed defensive cooldowns. No other spec can do that every 30 seconds.

Mages are wotlkish, yes, but they are closer to wotlk elementals than wotlk mages. It's just sad how low mage skillcap became this expansion.

Ah, fair enough! Don't know what to think about that really, I think I enjoy the whole "underdog"-aspect a bit too, like say at the moment a lot of mages are complaining about the class and the damage we deal, which for me makes it more "challenging" (just assuming that the skill cap works differently now from e.g. WotLK etc) and rewarding to play! Hope it keeps up though, I don't mind people being forced into a "harder" playstyle if the game gets a bit burstier than it is atm (you can CC a healer for like 25~ seconds and yet not be able to finish of a DPS etc) where you get more punished (but not instantly lose like I felt you did in the last few patches!) for actaully making mistakes.

#34 Braindance

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:11 AM

View Postleek, on 14 September 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Ah, fair enough! Don't know what to think about that really, I think I enjoy the whole "underdog"-aspect a bit too, like say at the moment a lot of mages are complaining about the class and the damage we deal, which for me makes it more "challenging" (just assuming that the skill cap works differently now from e.g. WotLK etc) and rewarding to play! Hope it keeps up though, I don't mind people being forced into a "harder" playstyle if the game gets a bit burstier than it is atm (you can CC a healer for like 25~ seconds and yet not be able to finish of a DPS etc) where you get more punished (but not instantly lose like I felt you did in the last few patches!) for actaully making mistakes.
Wish more mages were as kind and and enthusiastic as you :)

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#35 ROKMODE

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostBraindance, on 14 September 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Yes mage this patch has room for outplaying. As in fishing for a pummel with frostbolt then landind full sheep. So you are faced with the wonderful dilemma of either letting him do full damage or get a full sheep.

Let me tell you about mages when you get full gear - you are the ONLY class that can solo ANYTHING every 30 seconds. Every deep with 5 icicles is a potential kill on ANYTHING, any healer, any dps or guaranteed defensive cooldowns. No other spec can do that every 30 seconds.

Mages are wotlkish, yes, but they are closer to wotlk elementals than wotlk mages. It's just sad how low mage skillcap became this expansion.
cept wotlk ele had no consistent way to set up kills whereas deepfreeze is an obvious easy way to set up kills
random ele globalling in wotlk is either because the player slips or the ele gets all overloads and all crits+phylactery
better comparison would be destro locks in s8 because they could easily set up kills on their own
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#36 Braindance

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 14 September 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

cept wotlk ele had no consistent way to set up kills whereas deepfreeze is an obvious easy way to set up kills
random ele globalling in wotlk is either because the player slips or the ele gets all overloads and all crits+phylactery
better comparison would be destro locks in s8 because they could easily set up kills on their own
Posted Image


-the dispel

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#37 majorblood

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:06 AM

View PostBraindance, on 14 September 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:




-the dispel
that picture has always bugged me because he didnt recast immolate but used conflag

#38 Chanimal

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

View PostZilea, on 14 September 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

The complaining will end as soon as wizard cleave dies out ;)

make my  class viable and one of veev's classes viable and i will have absolutely no problem with ever losing an arena match :)

Posted Image
twitch.tv/chanimaly follow me!

#39 Selicia

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:50 AM

I can't play right now, but I was able to get a lot of PTR games in after they increased BF and Resil on it.

What I'd like to know is: How different does 5.4 feel in full S13 gear in your wargames compared to playing in full S14 gear on the PTR? The significantly lower spirit for healers may be why their mana in war games feels so bad.
Posted Image
       Just say no.

#40 Vengeânce1296684277

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:19 AM

View PostDeliriumz, on 13 September 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Yea I understand but thanks for breaking it down. As I was eluding to, it all comes down to scale factors for the new gear. I'm sure someone could do the math on it, isn't the stats for the new gear already released?

e·lude


iˈlo͞od/


verb[color=#878787 !important]
gerund or present participle: eluding[/color]


  • 1.

    evade or escape from (a danger, enemy, or pursuer), typically in a skillful or cunning way.








al·lude


əˈlo͞od/


verb[color=#878787 !important]
gerund or present participle: alluding[/color]


  • 1.

    suggest or call attention to indirectly; hint at.



+rep if mad




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