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5.4 Unholy DK Haste vs. Mastery and socket bonuses

DK Death Knight Haste Mastery Socket bonuses Stats

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#41 Forumz

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

Coming back in here to let you all know you can get close to 25% crit chance in full grievous gear. (crit wrist/belt) This includes gemming and the likes, but if you don't want to gem for crit you can still get around 20% crit chance.

Edit: Forgot to mention this is a human so any other race gets a few more % crit from PvP trinket.

exact percentages:
-human: 24.63%
-other race: 27.08%

And in case you want to go all out you could go worgen and get 28.08%, which brings you close to having a third of your abilities crit.
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#42 meowkitty13

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

Hit 340 Crit 600 Haste 425 Expertise 340 Mastery 300

All of these are for 1% of that specific stat. 63% of all single target DK damage is Shadow damage (using Necrotics for Death Rune consumption). This means that for every 1% crit (which equals 1% overall damage) we could be gaining 2% Mastery (which equals roughly 1.26% damage).

#43 Forumz

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:29 PM

View Postmeowkitty13, on 12 September 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Hit 340 Crit 600 Haste 425 Expertise 340 Mastery 300

All of these are for 1% of that specific stat. 63% of all single target DK damage is Shadow damage (using Necrotics for Death Rune consumption). This means that for every 1% crit (which equals 1% overall damage) we could be gaining 2% Mastery (which equals roughly 1.26% damage).

You realise that, if this would be true, crit wouldn't be a prime stat in PvE? Your ''63% is shadow damage'' is complete bullshit, random numbers don't help. At least show how you got this silly number if you want people to believe you.
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#44 Ownu

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:58 AM

View PostLAderuiter, on 01 September 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Mastery is now, and will be in 5.4 better then haste. Socket bonus wise you can just check a couple high rated DKs, everyone is gemming the same.

This isnt true, its just that most Dks in 5.3 played rot comps, which you go mastery for. If you looked at the high end Dks playing something like PHD, they were going haste. In Zukgee's case, he was pretty much always going haste.

#45 zuludead

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

So you first prioritize 1050 hit and exp then the 4160 haste from Riven's post and then from there you choose if you want crit or mastery?  Is that what it boils down to? I'm using wowreforge, not sure of any better way to do it/

#46 Phillol

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:03 PM

crit so good

#47 Vadren

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

Hmm. I have two characters with 10 different gear sets on PTR, recount and a spread sheet ready to help me figure out how I'll gem/reforge for next season. But I'm not sure if I'll have time to do so among working, sleeping, lady, timeless isle, derpy xmog and legendary runs, handicapped friendly PvE (raid finder), FF14 and wondering if I'll get fat from consuming too much alcohol with little exercise.

Anyway - here is/was my plan:

4 defensive gear sets (stam > resil > str > haste, balanced stam > resil > str > haste, resil > stam > str > haste, balanced resil > stam > star > haste). Where balanced means matching socket bonuses and using str meta (no pvp power/resil one on ptr), and str shoulder/leg enchants. Testing full stam sets because conversion and AMS scale with it.

6 offensive sets that ignore socket bonuses (crit > str > *, str > crit > *, haste > str > *, str > haste > *, mastery > str > *, str > mastery > *)

What I want to find out (will do multiple tests for each. Except for explicit calculations obviously):

- PvE rotation DPS.
- Necrotic PvE rotation DPS (necrotics for death runes instead of SS).
- Blood presence DPS (necrotics for death runes).
- Blood presence DPS with conversion rolling (necrotics for death runes) and healing done by conversion.
- Blood presence DPS with Death Siphon for death runes and healing done by death siphon.
- Some magic PvP rotation for DPS (include icy touch, blood boil and necrotics, but have 15s of every minute be at range only and 10s of every minute be at range doing nothing... To emulate being CC'd?)

- TTL calculations/graph with variable DPS in and configurable (through a spread sheet cell) healing in. For blood pres + conversion, blood pres, unholy pres and unholy pres + conversion. I expect for low values of dps and healing that stam > resil, but for high values of both that resil is better. It'd be nice to know when.

- Also stats on dps break down for each set (# of necrotics, damage per blood plague tick, etc...)

Converting results to be relevant to PvP using battle fatigue and PvP power should be easy. Each dps trial/test would probably be on a raid boss target dummy and last 3 min, using garg and UF immediately and only once. Probably no empowered rune weapon.

I want to get a real world (ha) idea of how the dps works out with someone fat fingering, and maybe not doing everything perfectly, instead of a sim that's perfect. It's my opinion that if RNG and mistakes are more important in the final dps then +/- 5% simmed dps, then a person should use the stats that feel best to them instead of what sims best.

Are these things that people would be interested to know? I could bump it up above sleep and work.
Vadren#1175

#48 Jeexlol

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:12 PM

View PostVadren, on 16 September 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Hmm. I have two characters with 10 different gear sets on PTR, recount and a spread sheet ready to help me figure out how I'll gem/reforge for next season. But I'm not sure if I'll have time to do so among working, sleeping, lady, timeless isle, derpy xmog and legendary runs, handicapped friendly PvE (raid finder), FF14 and wondering if I'll get fat from consuming too much alcohol with little exercise.

Anyway - here is/was my plan:

4 defensive gear sets (stam > resil > str > haste, balanced stam > resil > str > haste, resil > stam > str > haste, balanced resil > stam > star > haste). Where balanced means matching socket bonuses and using str meta (no pvp power/resil one on ptr), and str shoulder/leg enchants. Testing full stam sets because conversion and AMS scale with it.

6 offensive sets that ignore socket bonuses (crit > str > *, str > crit > *, haste > str > *, str > haste > *, mastery > str > *, str > mastery > *)

What I want to find out (will do multiple tests for each. Except for explicit calculations obviously):

- PvE rotation DPS.
- Necrotic PvE rotation DPS (necrotics for death runes instead of SS).
- Blood presence DPS (necrotics for death runes).
- Blood presence DPS with conversion rolling (necrotics for death runes) and healing done by conversion.
- Blood presence DPS with Death Siphon for death runes and healing done by death siphon.
- Some magic PvP rotation for DPS (include icy touch, blood boil and necrotics, but have 15s of every minute be at range only and 10s of every minute be at range doing nothing... To emulate being CC'd?)

- TTL calculations/graph with variable DPS in and configurable (through a spread sheet cell) healing in. For blood pres + conversion, blood pres, unholy pres and unholy pres + conversion. I expect for low values of dps and healing that stam > resil, but for high values of both that resil is better. It'd be nice to know when.

- Also stats on dps break down for each set (# of necrotics, damage per blood plague tick, etc...)

Converting results to be relevant to PvP using battle fatigue and PvP power should be easy. Each dps trial/test would probably be on a raid boss target dummy and last 3 min, using garg and UF immediately and only once. Probably no empowered rune weapon.

I want to get a real world (ha) idea of how the dps works out with someone fat fingering, and maybe not doing everything perfectly, instead of a sim that's perfect. It's my opinion that if RNG and mistakes are more important in the final dps then +/- 5% simmed dps, then a person should use the stats that feel best to them instead of what sims best.

Are these things that people would be interested to know? I could bump it up above sleep and work.


Could you do Mastery v. Haste v. Crit with all Str gems except the shoulders with an orange of the proper type?

Do dps on a level 90 target dummy and make sure you spread your diseases with blood boil.

Use the following:

Icy Touch for Frosts
Blood Boil for Bloods
Plague Strike for Unholy or Transform/Scourge if diseases are up
Necrotics for Death Runes

Don't worry about Festering Strike for now!!

Thanks dude!!

Edit: Use two pvp trinkets -> On Use with PVP power and proc with PVP power.

#49 Jeexlol

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:56 PM

@Riven, what's better if you're in a root with aids on all the team+pets, spamming death coil from range since you're rooted?

#50 Nille

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:16 AM

Something very important i have to add is, If you get tunneled as an Unholy DK, You probably have to sit Blood Presence and You will loose like half your Haste % then, i usually get tunneled so i have to sit Blood P and dont have the Haste i want to, So i'd go with mastery
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#51 Sabyth

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:37 AM

After playing a bit more, so much of my pressure is from Blood Tap and Plague Leech Necrotic spam, which is effected by neither Haste or Mastery, that your choice matters even less.

#52 Ownu

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostSabyth, on 17 September 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

After playing a bit more, so much of my pressure is from Blood Tap and Plague Leech Necrotic spam, which is effected by neither Haste or Mastery, that your choice matters even less.

Haste indirectly effects necrotic applications, as you'll have faster rune regen,which means less of your blood taps are forced to reset runes, and you can save them for when you really need them. Haste = necro Mastery = Rot

#53 Forumz

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostOwnu, on 17 September 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Haste indirectly effects necrotic applications, as you'll have faster rune regen,which means less of your blood taps are forced to reset runes, and you can save them for when you really need them. Haste = necro Mastery = Rot

Crit = sick burst damage.

Edit: played some wargames on live. We don't really need Haste as much anymore because of Plague Leech. Crit really feels amazing. Thinking Crit>Haste>Mastery build.
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#54 Vadren

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostJeexlol, on 16 September 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Could you do Mastery v. Haste v. Crit with all Str gems except the shoulders with an orange of the proper type?

Do dps on a level 90 target dummy and make sure you spread your diseases with blood boil.

Use the following:

Icy Touch for Frosts
Blood Boil for Bloods
Plague Strike for Unholy or Transform/Scourge if diseases are up
Necrotics for Death Runes

Don't worry about Festering Strike for now!!

Thanks dude!!

Edit: Use two pvp trinkets -> On Use with PVP power and proc with PVP power.

That's very similar to one of the gear sets I already put together. I'll try to do some stuff with spreading damage.

Edited by Vadren, 17 September 2013 - 04:13 PM.

Vadren#1175

#55 Phillol

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:29 PM

Would be nice if people would try other things other then sticking to their idea of mastery or haste AKA try crit

Ive had a lot of succes with it.

admit it or not but the type of rotation we use and our damage are similar to pve and crit and mastery are the current 2 best stats.

Edited by Phillol, 17 September 2013 - 04:31 PM.


#56 Zambador

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

I love that people are saying HASTE or MASTERY. I see 15% buff to STR... and i fucking gem STR.  STR was best last patch, and it's getting buffed..... it will remain the single best stat and the only stat to gem, and FUCK socket bonus. No str = no go.

REVOLUTIO #1

#57 Phillol

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:38 PM

that's not usually how it works but yeah good thing you copy other people instead of making your own choices.

#58 Forumz

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:44 PM

DKs don't even go for full strength on gems in PvE, why do people think it works for PvP? Stop mindlessly copying someone's gear.
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#59 meowkitty13

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:30 PM

I tested going full Str vs. going socket bonuses and Resil actually makes Necrotics do less. I'm pretty sure Necrotic has some type of diminishing returns with too much AP in PvP. I tested socketing full str vs. going for socket bonuses and I only lost 300 absorb, but gained 2% mastery and 1.2% PvP power. So it's basically .8% less Necrotic for ~2.4% damage increase.

#60 NsMs

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:54 PM

View Postmeowkitty13, on 17 September 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I tested going full Str vs. going socket bonuses and Resil actually makes Necrotics do less. I'm pretty sure Necrotic has some type of diminishing returns with too much AP in PvP. I tested socketing full str vs. going for socket bonuses and I only lost 300 absorb, but gained 2% mastery and 1.2% PvP power. So it's basically .8% less Necrotic for ~2.4% damage increase.

Well the strenght gives more damage aswell, not only higher absorbs on necros. Still think matching is worth it though, at least resil bonuses, but i dont really knwo if i will go for mastery/haste on yellows or resil...
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