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5.4 Unholy DK Haste vs. Mastery and socket bonuses

DK Death Knight Haste Mastery Socket bonuses Stats

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#121 Forumz

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 26 September 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

How does the new alacrity of xuen trinket play out in all this? Is it worth getting and using it?

View PostForumz, on 24 September 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Update on whoever wanted to try PvE trinkets:

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#122 Vadren

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:26 PM

View PostSabyth, on 26 September 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

In current tier gear yes, you want Crit. But in PvP gear (with the lower ilvl weapon being a big factor) Strength is better. Add in the other reasons (NS, BB IT, multi-target diseases) and it's not really a talking point to be honest.

People will end up copying whoever is at the top anyways. I've faced Revolutio several times and he deals insane pressure. And his set up? Full Strength gems, even ignoring socket bonuses, Mastery = Haste > Crit. Mes, our DK hero, is full Str gems as well, only using Str /PvP Power to match glove and belt bonus, then going Crit = Mastery > Haste.

It's not really a set in stone stat weight because DKs have a lot of variables in PvP and even then it's only a minimal change in playstyle. I just had to call out gemming Crit as a terrible idea.

I'm referring to the "Even above hit" comment. The idea that 1 str is better than 2 hit when you're under hit cap is false - even in low ilvl gear. Also keep in mind grievous is still 522 which is the same as last tier's normal pve gear where str was barely 2x better than the secondary stats and certainly not better than hit.

Those dks you mentioned are still using primarily 496 gear. Stats scale differently with gear so it makes sense that we try and figure out what's best for grievous gear.

On crit: crit is attractive because of crit soul reapers and potential burst. DK's are already good at spread pressure, and consistent pressure, so skewing your gear for finishing someone off makes sense. In PvP gearing to cover your weaknesses can be a good approach, but that can mean lower sim dps, lower damage overall or whatever other downside that comes with it. People are way too often driven by a pve mindset where optimizing damage is the only way.

For example with haste gearing: I'm not convinced being gcd capped and having more resources than I can use is a bad thing. If I have an excessive influx of resources it means for every GCD I have multiple options and it also means I have a pool of resources available if something goes wrong or I fuck up.

Forumz tried a high crit set and liked it - now he's running sims to see if his preference is justified. To trash that based on conjecture and having glanced over EJ posts a couple times isn't useful to anyone.
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#123 Vadren

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:29 PM

I don't know why it double posted.

Edited by Vadren, 26 September 2013 - 07:30 PM.

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#124 Shinotenshi1

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:16 AM

I'm rethinking my choice about playing with Plague Leech.

With gear only getting better and us having more and more haste, all Plague Leech is doing is giving us a bunch more globals to work with in our rotation. Maybe all in all, we're getting 1 more Death Rune out of all that and I think I'm being optimistic when I say that. I'm saying this with full grievous gear and a mastery/haste build in mind btw. Plague Leech hardly seems worth it when I look at it like that.

The best you can do is taking 1 global off by leeching offtargets, but when you have fully powered dots going, that just seems like a waste.

Any thoughts about this?
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#125 Forumz

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostShinotenshi1, on 27 September 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I'm rethinking my choice about playing with Plague Leech.

With gear only getting better and us having more and more haste, all Plague Leech is doing is giving us a bunch more globals to work with in our rotation. Maybe all in all, we're getting 1 more Death Rune out of all that and I think I'm being optimistic when I say that. I'm saying this with full grievous gear and a mastery/haste build in mind btw. Plague Leech hardly seems worth it when I look at it like that.

The best you can do is taking 1 global off by leeching offtargets, but when you have fully powered dots going, that just seems like a waste.

Any thoughts about this?

What I tend to do is to always park 1 unholy rune. Just keep it at the ready at all times. Then 4 x NS > 2 x BT > 2 x NS > Plague Leech > Plague Strike > NS > keep 1 Death Rune to refresh stack.

Idk, it's 2 additional death runes for almost every burst window. Feels too good to pass up.

Edit: and you could always just Leech a random pet or something.

Edited by Forumz, 27 September 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#126 Shinotenshi1

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:11 PM

View PostForumz, on 27 September 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

What I tend to do is to always park 1 unholy rune. Just keep it at the ready at all times. Then 4 x NS > 2 x BT > 2 x NS > Plague Leech > Plague Strike > NS > keep 1 Death Rune to refresh stack.

Idk, it's 2 additional death runes for almost every burst window. Feels too good to pass up.

Edit: and you could always just Leech a random pet or something.
I was writing a wall of text with theories and arguments and whatnot and I basically answered my own questions by concluding that having Roiling Blood virtually adds nothing to the table when you think about it. Literally it does nothing except make spreading diseases easier.

So yeah, you're right. There is no reason not to play with Plague Leech.
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#127 Forumz

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostShinotenshi1, on 27 September 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

I was writing a wall of text with theories and arguments and whatnot and I basically answered my own questions by concluding that having Roiling Blood virtually adds nothing to the table when you think about it. Literally it does nothing except make spreading diseases easier.

So yeah, you're right. There is no reason not to play with Plague Leech.

Unholy Blight + chillblains is really nice when fighting druids though. They won't be able to get away no matter how much they shapeshift.
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#128 Shinotenshi1

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:12 AM

nvm theory didn't work out

Edited by Shinotenshi1, 28 September 2013 - 11:19 AM.

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#129 Ownu

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

Plague leech seemed like a nice idea at first, but most of the time rolling blood is better anyway

#130 Forumz

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostOwnu, on 01 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Plague leech seemed like a nice idea at first, but most of the time rolling blood is better anyway

For sustained pressure comps? Perhaps.

For burst oriented comps? No way.
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#131 Schvetolga

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostOwnu, on 01 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Plague leech seemed like a nice idea at first, but most of the time rolling blood is better anyway

I feel the same way. Plague Leech requires 2 globals and right now I dont feel rune starved at all, even when playing PHD.
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#132 Miette

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

Plague leech is always better
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#133 Ownu

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:27 PM

I almost never have empty globals, and when I do, they're not at the right time for plague leech. Most comps Dks play now are rot comps in one way or another anyway. PHD is best with survival hunter, and thats sustained oriented/rot. TSG is also just sustained oriented rot whats around you. Shadowcleave is probably the original rot. I haven't seen any other comp worth looking at other than those three.

#134 Vadren

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

I went to fill out more of my spread sheet today by dpsing dummies on PTR and I'm doing like 10-20k less dps... Even with the same gear sets as before. Does anyone know if something major changed on PTR?
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#135 Vadren

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

I figured it out. All the Grievous gear in bags was converted into Tyrannical....................................................... Arrrgh.
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#136 Schvetolga

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostForumz, on 12 September 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Coming back in here to let you all know you can get close to 25% crit chance in full grievous gear. (crit wrist/belt) This includes gemming and the likes, but if you don't want to gem for crit you can still get around 20% crit chance.

Edit: Forgot to mention this is a human so any other race gets a few more % crit from PvP trinket.

exact percentages:
-human: 24.63%
-other race: 27.08%

And in case you want to go all out you could go worgen and get 28.08%, which brings you close to having a third of your abilities crit.

I'm almost full grievous on my DK but I'm at 17% crit. How do you reckon I'd get another 8% from a few gems? :|
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#137 Forumz

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:57 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 18 October 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

I'm almost full grievous on my DK but I'm at 17% crit. How do you reckon I'd get another 8% from a few gems? :|

I'm not sure how you can be close to full gear when I'm only about halfway with 2.7k cap each week?

Anyway, you need the crit/exp bracers, mastery/crit boots and mastery/crit belt, exp/crit neck, haste/crit cloak. reforge crit>mastery>haste and gem 320 crit in all slots (+3% crit damage in meta for more of a boost)

As stated before though, it's most likely not worth it to gem 320 crit everywhere. Without gemming crit you'll be ~20%.
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#138 Schvetolga

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostForumz, on 18 October 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure how you can be close to full gear when I'm only about halfway with 2.7k cap each week?

Anyway, you need the crit/exp bracers, mastery/crit boots and mastery/crit belt, exp/crit neck, haste/crit cloak. reforge crit>mastery>haste and gem 320 crit in all slots (+3% crit damage in meta for more of a boost)

As stated before though, it's most likely not worth it to gem 320 crit everywhere. Without gemming crit you'll be ~20%.

I got 3 items from the world boss so far and I've got a 3.6k RBG cap every week.

There's no way I'm going 320 crit gems, that's way too much of a strength loss. I chose to buy the haste/mastery bracers instead, that's a 250 crit rating loss I guess. I'm still missing the grievous neck, boots, legs and gloves though. Maybe I'll get 20% in the end.

Edited by Urbandurban, 18 October 2013 - 03:12 PM.

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#139 a1entity

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

Pray that war gets nerfed and we be ok even if go crit or mastery

#140 Cloysterz

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:23 PM

mastery is best and if u choose crit/haste it doesnt rly matter, if u have problems with runes go haste otherwise go crit..
btw guys what u think about double dk healer?




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