Jump to content

5.4 Unholy DK Haste vs. Mastery and socket bonuses

DK Death Knight Haste Mastery Socket bonuses Stats

  • Please log in to reply
141 replies to this topic

#1 meowkitty13

meowkitty13
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 21
  • Talents: Unholy 1/0/2/0/0/2

Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:42 PM

So everyone, with the upcoming 5.4 Unholy buffs to Strength and Soul Reaper (+15% Strength and +20% to Soul Reaper), will Haste or Mastery be better? Along those lines, will going for socket bonuses even be worth it or is going straight Strength the best option? Please state reason and why which stat is better. Cheers

#2 Forumz

Forumz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 1944
  • Talents: Shadow 2/1/1/1/./.
  • 2v2: 2728
  • 3v3: 2279
  • 5v5: 96
  • RBG: 768

Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:12 PM

It's preference but, mathematically, haste is the strongest stat. I usually take socket bonusses.
Posted Image

#3 LAderuiter

LAderuiter
  • Members
  • Posts: 2

Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:12 PM

Mastery is now, and will be in 5.4 better then haste. Socket bonus wise you can just check a couple high rated DKs, everyone is gemming the same.

#4 Enyalius

Enyalius
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Auchindoun
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 163
  • Talents: Arms 0/1/2/1/1/1
  • LocationNORWAY YO

Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:13 PM

Intellect.

Sorry, your post must be at least 2 word(s) long.


/^^^^^^\

<(õ_õ)>

./|\.

/\


#5 meowkitty13

meowkitty13
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 21
  • Talents: Unholy 1/0/2/0/0/2

Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:26 PM

After testing, I found that haste deals significantly more damage as long as I can stay on my target for a little bit.

#6 Forumz

Forumz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 1944
  • Talents: Shadow 2/1/1/1/./.
  • 2v2: 2728
  • 3v3: 2279
  • 5v5: 96
  • RBG: 768

Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

That is the main point. Haste is mathematically the strongest stat, but if you cannot reach your target, it becomes useless and Mastery pulls ahead.
Posted Image

#7 substance

substance
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Blackrock
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 137
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1587
  • 3v3: 1816
  • RBG: 767
  • Locationbreckenridge

Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:14 AM

Mastery is best because of lack of up time on target. Haste would be better if we had 100% up time.

#8 CharlotteMFC

CharlotteMFC
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 1
  • Talents: Unholy 2/1/0/0/1/2
  • LocationBourne End, England

Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

Mastery if you're used to being screwed over DG being on CD and aimlessly being kited. Haste will pull ahead if you're against MELEE/MELEE/HEAL - but it's not worth it.

#9 Sabyth

Sabyth
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Uldaman
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 142
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:00 PM

Mastery.

Because, as most people said, you won't have 100% uptime like in PvE (just look at any dps meters after arena and see how much of it is Blood Plague, Death Coil, and Garg) and also because Garg is an absolute beast on PTR with full Mastery, 15% more Str and Unholy Pres change.

So better spread damage, overall damage, and CD pressure.

#10 Jeexlol

Jeexlol
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 150
  • Talents: Unholy 0/0/2/2/0/2
  • 2v2: 1418
  • 3v3: 1784
  • RBG: 192

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:17 PM

Have you guys compared your overall damage done vs. the same teams / etc?

#11 meowkitty13

meowkitty13
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 21
  • Talents: Unholy 1/0/2/0/0/2

Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

I have noticed that the damage difference when you're being kited really isn't significant. Haste is absolutely incredible against teams who don't have plate. Clothies and Leather wearers get destroyed by Haste.

#12 Artigo

Artigo

Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:45 PM

View Postmeowkitty13, on 05 September 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I have noticed that the damage difference when you're being kited really isn't significant. Haste is absolutely incredible against teams who don't have plate. Clothies and Leather wearers get destroyed by Haste.

No, because if they're any good you're not going to have anywhere near 100% uptime which is the simple fact here.

PvE DK's play haste PvP DK's should do mastery.

#13 Forumz

Forumz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 1944
  • Talents: Shadow 2/1/1/1/./.
  • 2v2: 2728
  • 3v3: 2279
  • 5v5: 96
  • RBG: 768

Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

Mastery/Crit is a very nice build. You can get a noticable amount of crit even in current season gear. Just putting it out there.
Posted Image

#14 Vadren

Vadren
  • Junkies
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • US-Skullcrusher
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 1580
  • Talents:

Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:27 PM

I can't help but feel the whole 'mastery is better because of low up time' thing came from some post on the official forums that shows up first on google. It's an argument that is easy to understand and sort of makes sense, but it's still specious.

I'd be very cautious of trusting anyone's opinion who is 'sure' of the best stat for PvP. PvP is hard/impossible to simulate or predict which makes it just as hard/impossible to calculate what stat will give the best results and so anyone 'sure' probably doesn't really know what they're talking about.

Most people choose the best stat for PvE because that is generally considered a known, but in pvp you have to balance survival, damage, utility and consider how they lead to kills. In PvE only damage is important. And even then pve sims are based on a different ability priority so a simulation with a more PvP friendly rotation (more coi, icy touch, necrotics and possibly slower rune recharge due to blood presence) may give different results.

Anyway - what is clear is that each stat has advantages. It's up to you to decide what you'd rather go for and what feels better for you.

Haste - Faster rune recharge means do more (better utility, more necrotics, faster auto attack and faster gargoyle casts). Allegedly higher dps when actually connecting with your target (proven through pve sims).

Mastery - Better spread damage, dot damage, bigger death coils and bigger soul reapers. Bigger number on the score board.

Crit - Higher chance of a crit soul reaper winning the game. Slightly more dot damage. Higher chance of chain crits that scare opponents into using defensive cooldowns.

Personally I prefer being able to do more when I'm actually connecting with a target rather than when I'm sitting in CC. Also high haste just seems more fun to me and since there isn't actually a clearly better stat I prioritize that over everything.
Vadren#1175

#15 Vadren

Vadren
  • Junkies
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • US-Skullcrusher
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 1580
  • Talents:

Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostForumz, on 05 September 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Mastery/Crit is a very nice build. You can get a noticable amount of crit even in current season gear. Just putting it out there.

Sounds like a soul reaper build :D
Vadren#1175

#16 Esylium

Esylium
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 70
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/2
  • 2v2: 1979
  • 3v3: 2430
  • 5v5: 480
  • RBG: 768

Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:46 PM

Finally someone speaking some sense. I agree with you Valdren and a good point is that the actual scoring a kill is when you connect on a target. That's when you definately don't want to run out of runes. So in a bad summary, mastery seems like safe bet for noobs that get kited all game, but to be honest I feel like I get quite a lot of uptime as a dk.

#17 Forumz

Forumz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 1944
  • Talents: Shadow 2/1/1/1/./.
  • 2v2: 2728
  • 3v3: 2279
  • 5v5: 96
  • RBG: 768

Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:46 PM

I run all kinds of reforges, I'm trying out different stuff all the time. Was playing haste/crit for all three specs some time ago and it felt very solid, haste/mastery has more long-term pressure but it's the burst windows that matter and haste/crit really felt great for that. Mastery/crit is the same idea just that instead of runes you stack runic power and dump death coils into your target when bursting.
Posted Image

#18 Bridgey

Bridgey
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 174
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/2/0/1/2/.
  • 2v2: 1489
  • 3v3: 1778
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationSouth West England

Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostVadren, on 05 September 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:


Mastery - Better spread damage, dot damage, bigger death coils and bigger soul reapers. Bigger number on the score board.


This is why I find Mastery to be the strongest stat, Our main burst damage comes from gargoyle (which does shadow damage affected by mastery) and I get about 90% of my kills with Soulreaper whenever I play so to me more damage on everything that we use to kill our target comes out above faster hits and rune regen, the fact we also have to sit blood presence the majority of games also greatly reduces our haste use because our rune regeneration gets raped.
Posted Image

#19 meowkitty13

meowkitty13
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 21
  • Talents: Unholy 1/0/2/0/0/2

Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:36 PM

View PostMvpstar, on 07 September 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

the fact we also have to sit blood presence the majority of games also greatly reduces our haste use because our rune regeneration gets raped.
You just used your own argument against yourself

#20 Bridgey

Bridgey
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 174
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/2/0/1/2/.
  • 2v2: 1489
  • 3v3: 1778
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationSouth West England

Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

View Postmeowkitty13, on 07 September 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

You just used your own argument against yourself

How, if we went haste we would need to be more in unholy presence to get the full effect of it.

while as mastery in blood presence we would do more damage then haste in blood presence.

thats how i see it anyway.
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<