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5.4: The return of blood fear?

Paladin blood fear turn evil

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#21 originalret

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:29 AM

View PostMirionx, on 09 August 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

It has 20 yards range just like fist, TE is not gona be picked ever

Fist of justice is also 20 yards, i never seem to have any issues with its range in arena, but thats prob because its instant cast. TE would be better off used after an initial CC to let you get into a suitable position for it.


View Postfreshfreefly, on 09 August 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

You already have an aura mastery and AoE CC for anybody near you, really shouldn't be hard landing these out of HoJes / blinds / traps.

All i'm saying is that i don't see why rets need to be buffed right now, to me it seems like right now they are just a worse version of ferals but still majorly OP.

our AoE CC and aura mastery are both on 3 minute cooldowns, and the blind breaks if you sneeze on an opponent (including censure). it also requires you to be nearly on top of your desired target, which isnt always possible against healer / range combos who purposely spread.

#22 Doseisfresh

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:37 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 12 August 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Fist of justice is also 20 yards, i never seem to have any issues with its range in arena, but thats prob because its instant cast. TE would be better off used after an initial CC to let you get into a suitable position for it.




our AoE CC and aura mastery are both on 3 minute cooldowns, and the blind breaks if you sneeze on an opponent (including censure). it also requires you to be nearly on top of your desired target, which isnt always possible against healer / range combos who purposely spread.

Blinding LIght is 2 min cd, and doesn't break on Censure.  It does, however, break on anything else.   You're making it seem worse than it is.
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#23 lanayax

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:52 PM

paladin  needs this buff shut up u morons u don t understand

#24 freshfreefly

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

View PostSxynes, on 09 August 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

biggest trolll Evaze, plays a mage and doesn't think rets need to be buffed, LOLOLOOLOL

also stop overreacting as soon as u see 1 single shit thing that rets wont even use and make a post about it. Read the notes chill out, think..

damnit I facepalm so bad when I see stuff like this.

I never asked for mage buffs, but you really think rets need to be buffed?

really?


REALLY?

View PostDillypoo, on 03 August 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

GUYS GUYS GUYS IM RUNNING IN I GOT A FEAR OFF THAT!!! Oh wait Tremor... OK OK OK Guys I got another full fear off that!!! Aw shit nimble, OK GUYS GUYS GUYS I SWEAR I HAVE A FULL FEAR! Fuck nevermind... Will. OK OK OK NOW THIS FEAR IS FULL!!! Shit he has tremor back up omg... OK OK OK NOW I HAVE A FULL FEAR ITS FULL KILL KILL Oh whoops... prep tremor... Damnit, I got a full fear this time!!! Oh... he trinketed it... next one should be full... FULL FEAR!!! He has nimble back up WTF.

#25 Enyalius

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:01 PM

View Postfreshfreefly, on 01 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

I never asked for mage buffs, but you really think rets need to be buffed?

really?


REALLY?

I so agree, ret buffs would be THE dumbest idea EVER. Prolly just some mentally retarded wanker sittin in his room thinking "god damnit i didnt kill this guy in 0,5 sec".

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#26 Mirionx

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

View Postoriginalret, on 12 August 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Fist of justice is also 20 yards, i never seem to have any issues with its range in arena, but thats prob because its instant cast. TE would be better off used after an initial CC to let you get into a suitable position for it.

That was kinda my point. FoJ has 20 yard range and sometimes you have to get in to real awkward spots just to use that, I can't imagine trying to get a cast off while being so close, especially not when it's only 2 seconds extra duration compared to FoJ

#27 Poseyx

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 08 August 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Do ret paladins ever spec into repentance? No. What happened to hungering cold after it was given a cast time? Ret paladins are tunneled most games, if you ever let one get a fear off you deserve to lose.

yeah maybe if all paladins are peanut brained like yourself
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#28 originalret

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostMirionx, on 01 September 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

That was kinda my point. FoJ has 20 yard range and sometimes you have to get in to real awkward spots just to use that, I can't imagine trying to get a cast off while being so close, especially not when it's only 2 seconds extra duration compared to FoJ

the judgement glyph would help out with this a bit. slowed for 2 seconds will hopefully allow you to get the cast off before they are in range to interrupt it

#29 Voidbringer

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:17 AM

I know that some people will react to this post with: "omg dumb idea! it's a buff and I don't want rets to get buffs!", but I'll throw it out there anyway...

In terms of general game design I think that FoJ should be baseline, because now it's just mandatory and it's not doing anything "creative" or "fun" with our arsenal. Literally nobody takes anything else (for arenas). It's also instant, so it doesn't require too much set up (other than getting in range, watching for groundings etc).

TE on the other hand is quite interesting, because it increases the skill cap and forces a player to make a choice: "should I stick to my target and keep on pumping damage or should I play more strategically and try to cc?". If it was instant then it would be too much - sure, but think about it for a second: you need to disengage from your main target (if you imagined a ret flying through the arena like a hunter it's not my fault - blame your brain;)). You also, potentially, waste an important part of your cds to position yourself correctly, cast, juke an interrupt or risk being locked on holy school (i.e. no bubble for you buddy).

In my opinion it would be both fun and interesting, while not being over the top. Seeing as you can't do damage while casting TE and it's not only about the cast time, but you using/wasting time to position, slow the focus target (as originalret mentioned) before it etc etc. Maybe some numbers would then need tweaking, CDs changed etc, but my general point is this: Rets, as well as other classes, should have more choices to make, because it's rewarding and shows skill of a player.
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#30 Z4muZ

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 08 August 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

... Ret paladins are tunneled most games, if you ever let one get a fear off you deserve to lose.

Locks being tunneled a lot as well; you deserve to lose if a lock gets a single fear off?

Pathetic simpletons with a mental capacity of a goddamned shoe.
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#31 Surel

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:33 PM

Not a big deal, i think its a good thing, now Rets can pick between sheep DR and Fear DR depending on what setup they play, if none they can just go with the shorter CD stun with the longer range, which is certainly gonna be picked against comps that train Rets. Hunter ret comps could certainly become buffed with this, also mage ret teams.

Keep in mind that holy Paladins might need some help aswell to put them on pair with the healers who seem to be the strongest next patch, druid and priest (just predictions)

Edited by Surel, 02 September 2013 - 01:34 PM.


#32 freshfreefly

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostZ4muZ, on 02 September 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Locks being tunneled a lot as well; you deserve to lose if a lock gets a single fear off?

Pathetic simpletons with a mental capacity of a goddamned shoe.

except ret paladins can't be rooted or slowed :P

View PostDillypoo, on 03 August 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

GUYS GUYS GUYS IM RUNNING IN I GOT A FEAR OFF THAT!!! Oh wait Tremor... OK OK OK Guys I got another full fear off that!!! Aw shit nimble, OK GUYS GUYS GUYS I SWEAR I HAVE A FULL FEAR! Fuck nevermind... Will. OK OK OK NOW THIS FEAR IS FULL!!! Shit he has tremor back up omg... OK OK OK NOW I HAVE A FULL FEAR ITS FULL KILL KILL Oh whoops... prep tremor... Damnit, I got a full fear this time!!! Oh... he trinketed it... next one should be full... FULL FEAR!!! He has nimble back up WTF.

#33 freshfreefly

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostSurel, on 02 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Not a big deal, i think its a good thing, now Rets can pick between sheep DR and Fear DR depending on what setup they play, if none they can just go with the shorter CD stun with the longer range, which is certainly gonna be picked against comps that train Rets. Hunter ret comps could certainly become buffed with this, also mage ret teams.

I agree with this, and i think they should make more talents like this =)

this is a real choice now. once hunters aren't gods anymore (if we're lucky and blizzard doesn't buff survival even more), it won't be all abot bursting somebody down while healer is HoJ'ed. Mage/ret/priest just became more viable.

View PostDillypoo, on 03 August 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

GUYS GUYS GUYS IM RUNNING IN I GOT A FEAR OFF THAT!!! Oh wait Tremor... OK OK OK Guys I got another full fear off that!!! Aw shit nimble, OK GUYS GUYS GUYS I SWEAR I HAVE A FULL FEAR! Fuck nevermind... Will. OK OK OK NOW THIS FEAR IS FULL!!! Shit he has tremor back up omg... OK OK OK NOW I HAVE A FULL FEAR ITS FULL KILL KILL Oh whoops... prep tremor... Damnit, I got a full fear this time!!! Oh... he trinketed it... next one should be full... FULL FEAR!!! He has nimble back up WTF.

#34 Surel

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostVoidbringer, on 02 September 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

I know that some people will react to this post with: "omg dumb idea! it's a buff and I don't want rets to get buffs!", but I'll throw it out there anyway...

In terms of general game design I think that FoJ should be baseline, because now it's just mandatory and it's not doing anything "creative" or "fun" with our arsenal. Literally nobody takes anything else (for arenas). It's also instant, so it doesn't require too much set up (other than getting in range, watching for groundings etc).

I don't agree, i think that its mandatory because its overpowered, its simply the best talent, this game has to much instant CC, 5.4 removes some of it and that's the direction the game should go, If you played a healer in arena this expansion you'd probably understand. In my honest opinion, this talent should get a range Nerf or make a third talent similar to the other two, that's shares DR with cyclone? Your welcome to disagree of course.

View PostVoidbringer, on 02 September 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

TE on the other hand is quite interesting, because it increases the skill cap and forces a player to make a choice: "should I stick to my target and keep on pumping damage or should I play more strategically and try to cc?". If it was instant then it would be too much - sure, but think about it for a second: you need to disengage from your main target (if you imagined a ret flying through the arena like a hunter it's not my fault - blame your brain;)). You also, potentially, waste an important part of your cds to position yourself correctly, cast, juke an interrupt or risk being locked on holy school (i.e. no bubble for you buddy).

You lose dps time but your partners have time to dps, same goes for casters, priests trying to run in and fear lose dps time/healing time, mages sometimes blink away from a target to get a good sheep but at the risk of failing and getting punished. The game you are describing is a BRAINDEAD game, one where you put focus on the enemy healer and spam your focus FOJ macro and then your partners does the same thing (for example feral). Noty to this.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but i simply cannot believe your theory craft is well thought thru

Edited by Surel, 02 September 2013 - 02:41 PM.


#35 Mirionx

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostSurel, on 02 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Keep in mind that holy Paladins might need some help aswell to put them on pair with the healers who seem to be the strongest next patch, druid and priest (just predictions)

If they want to do that they should nerf druids and discs so we're all on the level of shamans, paladins and monks next patch

#36 Voidbringer

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostSurel, on 02 September 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't agree, i think that its mandatory because its overpowered, its simply the best talent, this game has to much instant CC, 5.4 removes some of it and that's the direction the game should go, If you played a healer in arena this expansion you'd probably understand. In my honest opinion, this talent should get a range Nerf or make a third talent similar to the other two, that's shares DR with cyclone? Your welcome to disagree of course.



You lose dps time but your partners have time to dps, same goes for casters, priests trying to run in and fear lose dps time/healing time, mages sometimes blink away from a target to get a good sheep but at the risk of failing and getting punished. The game you are describing is a BRAINDEAD game, one where you put focus on the enemy healer and spam your focus FOJ macro and then your partners does the same thing (for example feral). Noty to this.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but i simply cannot believe your theory craft is well thought thru

I'm not offended in the slighest and I appreciate the sentiment behind your opinions. Honestly, I think you've just misunderstood my post (or I may have been unclear myself ).

So to set the record straight;), I don't think the game should have too much if any instant cc, but since it does and the meta game revolves around it, my opinion is that it's a lazy design to upgrade HoJ into FoJ and make it a talent. They might as well make it baseline or remove/redesign the spell alltogether.

As far as  the "braindead" game is concerned, I was describing the exact opposite. I am looking forward to having to do all those things that casters do and the choices, risks and rewards that come with those (good positioning, timing, successful juke etc). I don't want to generalize, but it seems to me that when somebody sees a post from e.g. retri they assume that we know nothing of choices and playstyles of casters. Truth be told, I played a mage and lock for a couple of years, but I wanted to find out how playing a melee feels so yeah...here I am.

Having said that, I think the game is in such a state right now, when you can't just say: "remove instant cc" and be okay with it. There are so many escapes/gap closers, abilities usable while stunned/cced, additional "trinkets", cast time increases, interrupts etc that it would make the game for some classes really clunky and unenjoyable. You would be left with frustrated "cc-casters", pure damage bots and even greater domination of hunters, because they never cast and if they do you can't interrupt that (duh). It would require a lot of work from the devs and a major overhaul of game mechanics.
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#37 zenton

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostSurel, on 02 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Not a big deal, i think its a good thing, now Rets can pick between sheep DR and Fear DR depending on what setup they play, if none they can just go with the shorter CD stun with the longer range, which is certainly gonna be picked against comps that train Rets. Hunter ret comps could certainly become buffed with this, also mage ret teams.

Keep in mind that holy Paladins might need some help aswell to put them on pair with the healers who seem to be the strongest next patch, druid and priest (just predictions)

Pretty much this. This is a good change, the talent has some skill involved within it. It's Fist of Justice that should be changed (make the range buff baseline / rework the whole talent) and ofc stacked burst / healing.

I'd love to see somekind of "Repel" spell instead of Fist of Justice (similar to Dota) wich negotes the next ability cast on you / your party (including friendly ones to make it balanced).




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