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Warrior number pass -Making warrior PvP damage more meaningful

warrior dps mortal CS swifty 5.4

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#41 Braindance

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostÉldáríon 11296689901, on 08 August 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

ditto out of all our moves slam doesn't need a damage buff
Well the change is nice since it increases the rage cost as well+we can now have high burst outside of cds. With cds tho it's gonna be retardeeeeeeeed. They need to change cds to compensate.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#42 Peacesells

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:33 AM

Would rather have 50% damage increase on overpower. Slam already tends to crit pretty high. Overpower only tickles
Peace sells ...but who's buying?

#43 Evilcow

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostBraindance, on 08 August 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Well the change is nice since it increases the rage cost as well+we can now have high burst outside of cds. With cds tho it's gonna be retardeeeeeeeed. They need to change cds to compensate.

This change makes me feel like i'm supposed to play around with MS and OPs while CS is on CD, trying to keep an almost full rage bar and then CS+4xSlam... Can't really say that's a dynamic and engaging playstyle TBH.

#44 Vexxius

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:36 AM

View PostEvilcow, on 08 August 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Slam now deals 50% more damage, but the Rage cost has been increased by 50% as well. While Sweeping Strikes is active, Slam will deal 35% of damage dealt against the primary target to all other enemies within 2 yards, and targets affected by Colossus Smash receives 10% more damage.

What...???

Charge -> Swifty -> Csmash -> Mortal Strike -> Bladestorm -> Come out with a lot of rage and Slam spam. You dead.

#45 Gusie

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:38 AM

Blizzard has a history of doing this. It's smart on their part. Notes like this create excitement to an entire community and anyone who's been interested in playing warrior. It might make some people re-sub because it creates a feeling of hope after all.

When it's all said and done 2 or 3 patch notes later, it'll probably end up being a 10-15% buff. They know all these early numbers are BS on their part just to create a stir.

#46 Nemlol

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:41 AM

That change makes 0 sense???

wat

#47 Evilcow

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:41 AM

View PostVexxius, on 08 August 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

What...???

I think they only read this part:

View PostBraindance, on 07 August 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

This is a more complicated problem since Cataclysm, where warrior damage moved from a few strong hits and empty globals, to being completely global capped and spamming many small hits


#48 Braindance

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:42 AM

View PostEvilcow, on 08 August 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

I think they only read this part:
At least we made it! Winds of change!

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#49 Evilcow

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:51 AM

I guess it could be worse, they could have read:

View PostBraindance, on 07 August 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Warrior number pass -Making warrior PvP  damage more meaningful


Purpose: Enumerate the weaknesses of Arms damage-wise, and provide potential solutions.

I am convinced that Arms is bound to receive some PvE damage buffs, since we
remain the lowest dps spec on the PTR, and the premier DPS comparison sites (worldoflogs, raidbots etc), SimCraft simulations and advanced theorycrafting sites like elitist jerks, point to arms being one of the weakest dps specs in the game. My purpose is to direct some of those potential buffs to being meaningful in PvP.


#50 Pinka

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:56 AM

Obv blizz wants us to use slam more often. It is now pretty clear. Ops to save rage and get a increased chance to proc CS due to quicker globals and rage gen. Then cs and unload rage with slam.

Tho if they really want to give overpower a clear place it should prob be included in the Sudden death proc chance.

Burst might be higher. But the rage cost will put it on 30 rage again. So it will be less spammable. I am fine with this dmg buff actually.
Now we actually need to up some rage wile being trained in def stance and warr seems ready to be playable again.

Whoopdie. I suddenly bumped up to this! As the 5.2 intention on the arms rotation was.

Go back to the start, start with the principle of "Basic rotation is MS->Posted Image Overpower->Posted Image Overpower->X" and "Sometimes you will prioritize Posted Image Slam over Posted Image Overpowerwhen you are running high on rage", and figure out how to make it work from there. As it is, always having Posted Image Overpower always taking priority over all the other fillers leaves the rotation feeling too cramped and awkward, and takes all rage management out of the rotation, leaving us with no choices except hitting HS when we can't spend enough rage with the default rotation.

The intent is Posted Image Mortal Strike -> Posted Image Overpower with Posted Image Slam used during Posted Image Colossus Smash or during moments of excess rage.

Edited by Pinka, 08 August 2013 - 02:17 AM.

Posted Image

#51 Deonto

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:55 AM

To people that do not understand the change, Blizzard is trying to reinforce the idea that you favor to Slam>OP when CS is on the target(hence the old 10% buff to Slam when CS is on the target). They needed to buff Slam even more to make sure the Arms rotation is played how they want it to be.

The focus of this change is to "fix" the arms rotation. I would not view it as a dps increase (obviously it is a burst buff regardless) as numbers have still not been tuned.

For those who do not know, the basic Arms rotation is: MS>CS>OP(if at 4+stacks)>Slam(if at 40+rage)>OP. Focus on Slamming when Reck is up and HS when at 85/105 rage when CS is up.

They basically want the rotation to work a bit more like fury, though. So you'd want to use MS>OP to build rage for CS procs so you can spam slam during it. And in order to make it worth wild to potentially waste TfB procs, Slam needs to hit quite hard.

This is actually one of the better changes they could make, though. Because even if they miss the mark with sustain dps in pve, warriors will still be able to burst decently even with out CDs.
Posted Image
All credit goes to Beldam for this (amazing) meme.

#52 Drevi

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:09 AM

So it will go from 220% to 330% (363% when CS is up)

So.. All the feedback and suggestion got us 3 stack TfB back in other flavor?

#53 Ezyo1000

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:45 AM

If this is what they did for slam i cant wait to see what they do for fury. Now that slam hits harder they wil up furys RB most likely to make sure it stays as one of the strongest melee hits in game. Im thinking what, 230-240% wep damage

#54 Deonto

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:57 AM

View PostEzyo1000, on 08 August 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

If this is what they did for slam i cant wait to see what they do for fury. Now that slam hits harder they wil up furys RB most likely to make sure it stays as one of the strongest melee hits in game. Im thinking what, 230-240% wep damage

While they could buff RB's damage(since it wouldn't really change the rotation), it's kind of unlikely. I feel like fury will just get some overall damage buff.

Kind of like with Arms. If they are happy after this "rotation" change, they could just adjust Seasoned Soldier and call it a day. Though, they could also try and make haste and/or mastery better for arms as well(so it scales a bit better).
Posted Image
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#55 Ezyo1000

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 04:43 AM

View PostDeonto, on 08 August 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

While they could buff RB's damage(since it wouldn't really change the rotation), it's kind of unlikely. I feel like fury will just get some overall damage buff.

Kind of like with Arms. If they are happy after this "rotation" change, they could just adjust Seasoned Soldier and call it a day. Though, they could also try and make haste and/or mastery better for arms as well(so it scales a bit better).

Well the thing is i think they probably wont do a +10% damage buff to Fury but probably just up Bt rb and WS damage, But if it was just an overall 10% damage buff to everything i would be fine with that as well

#56 Ansi

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:29 AM

PvE change

Warriors will have more rage due to set bonus and higher haste overall

Doesn't make much sense for PvP. It makes abilities less homogeneous though, which is nice.

#57 Drevi

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:34 AM

View PostEzyo1000, on 08 August 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

If this is what they did for slam i cant wait to see what they do for fury. Now that slam hits harder they wil up furys RB most likely to make sure it stays as one of the strongest melee hits in game. Im thinking what, 230-240% wep damage

I hope they buff RB. It's supposed to be one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game but looks like it's not scaling as well as it should.
From what I tested in the ptr it looked kind of weak compared to other meele hard hits (TV, oblit, even pre buff slam) and pyros, ssurges, etc.
Current 190% RB would be around 308% single weapon damage vs 220% slam, so it hits around 40% harder.
Future slam will be 363%. To hit for the same RB should be buffed to 225%. To maintain the +40% ratio it has now, it would need to be buffed to around 310%... Wow..

I don't know how they will manage to keep fury as the superior burst spec after slam buff without making it a bit OP.
Unless they don't care at all about fury having a niche, which seems pretty likely anyways.

PS: I would LOVE to see BT buffed to 100-120% weapon damage. It's more a psychological thing.. I just can't look at the tooltip and read 90% wepdmg without facepalming.

#58 Doctor M

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:49 AM

I'm just waiting for kagan to post something smart, as always. :duckers:

View PostEsiwdeer, on 29 June 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

But look how fucking dumb it was like, a bot could Drain Mana just like a bot could play Hunter ATM.

#59 shunke

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:07 AM

Everything you write is intelligent.
Old juggernat was good when you had increased chance to crit with Mortal strike after charge. I dont know why they removed it.
Does any of you find hard time to apply mortal strike to these classes?:
-Monks
-Retribution Paladins
-Unholy Death Knights
without charge?
and if you have some latensy, try apply MS to retribution paladin who has wings and pet in the battleground, it is really really hard.
Sometimes when you are 1v1 vs one of those classes after they parry third MS you will facepalm. They also parry those CS when you are about to burst.
So it sucks that you need to use gapcloser to apply debuff then for example monks are gone...

I think they should mak slam like 240/250 wdmg and buff overpower instead of mortal strike, that how we have one ability that makes good damage and one ability that we can use outside of burst and it would be more sustain and we also have rage for it.
Also one way fixing warriors would be also buff deep wounds abit. That how our damage goes better (more like affliction warrior) and our single target damage doesnt go too high. But that can be pretty damn op when we pair up with affliction lock and thunderclap and pop our "demon soul" and our dots ticks 30k.

I also suggest deepwounds should last 30s in pvp instead of 15s. Staggering shout should not break on dot damage. Intimidating fear should not break from our deep wounds. We could basicly make some nice switches when we are "killing" healer and they just dont die we fear and not break it and go back to dps.

Shortly:
Old Juggernaut back (after charge increased chance to crit with Mortal strike)
Deep wounds lasts 30s, doesnt break staggering shout or our fear. Also some damage buff like 100% or 50%.
More damage to overpower (150% wdmg? 170%wdmg?)
Little buff to slam, 240% wdmg? Nothing like obilirate...
CS Should be same in pve and pvp. They should balance our damage better.

Some QoL changes:
Hamstring could last longer? and maybe even snare 60% for first 3secs?
Sweeping Strikes 15/20 rage cost
Overpower 5 rage, CS generates 5 rage if crits 10 rage.

What could berserker stance be?
Like Mage armor / Frost presence?Some from unholy presence? Increased movement but less rage? Sounds fair? Nothing too good?
When you dont have reflect up and see polymorph coming you could always have an opportunity to change zerker stance if you are fast! :3 so like 25% reduced CC / Dots etc + some speed like uh pres gives. That how we lose some damage too.

At the moment (5.3) even if we have full rage bar and we could spam Slam/HS we dont do same damage than other classes do so it is pretty sad state.

#60 shunke

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:12 AM

View PostDrevi, on 08 August 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

I hope they buff RB. It's supposed to be one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game but looks like it's not scaling as well as it should.
From what I tested in the ptr it looked kind of weak compared to other meele hard hits (TV, oblit, even pre buff slam) and pyros, ssurges, etc.
Current 190% RB would be around 308% single weapon damage vs 220% slam, so it hits around 40% harder.
Future slam will be 363%. To hit for the same RB should be buffed to 225%. To maintain the +40% ratio it has now, it would need to be buffed to around 310%... Wow..

I don't know how they will manage to keep fury as the superior burst spec after slam buff without making it a bit OP.
Unless they don't care at all about fury having a niche, which seems pretty likely anyways.

PS: I would LOVE to see BT buffed to 100-120% weapon damage. It's more a psychological thing.. I just can't look at the tooltip and read 90% wepdmg without facepalming.

Havent tried TG yet in PTR but,
Fury SMF Warrior is really really broken.

I stacked full mastery + mastery buff and I have like 55% mastery. As human I proced my dancing steels + proc trinket.
Feared target.
pop "swifty" + berserker rage -> heroic leaped for 80k (critical) -> Dragons roar + heroic strike same global 300k+80k criticals then raging blow and heroic strike (no CS) 150k+ 80k. Also there might be melee swings and deepwounds same time.
80k+380k+150k+80k = 690k damage in two globals.

690.000 damage in two globals.

And it goes even higher if you get Agility trinket which procs 12000 mastery with those "flat" 5% mastery.

So I dont really know how the next patch is..





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