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No appropriate ww monk changes on ptr???

monk ww windwalker ptr nothing changed

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#21 Djandawg

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:27 PM

View PostSyncrow, on 06 August 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

this discussion is so pointless... you are complaining about monk dmg beeing too much...yeah you are right, like all other monks said before...so i don't get the point...

Blizzard are the evil ones, not us...

If you're looking at the newest threads here in the monk forum, you will not find any seriously meant post of buffing monks dmg...
I don't view people as evil if their class is overbuffed, that's unrealistic.
I only reply to people who post bs information or saying, oh well everyone does it, when in reality, no other class comes close. Then it is followed by other bs , like oh do you know their professions and trinkets, procs?
I have one point, that is that monks %100-0 people, in stuns. You do not make out of it and I will reply to people that say otherwise. You can create a private forum when one guy posts incorrect information, everyone says how nice and discusses other issues where others can't prove otherwise. I think it's better to correct those on AJ.

This is worse than elementary school logic:
-Look I got %100-0'd by 5-6 different monks on numerous occasions.
-Yeah but do you play monk? I do and because of that, you are exaggerating.
-I don't need to play one to get one shot 20 times and post about it, also here another thread.
-Yeah but what buffs and procs does he have? Those images don't show it, therefore they are irrelevant.

As any sane person who does pvp, I prefer this stuff not to go live rather than getting fixed 2 months later after ruining the season I am posting for the off chance that some designer from Blizz reads these forums.

Edited by Djandawg, 07 August 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#22 Angrypiexx

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:06 AM

Monks do unbelievable dmg especially when u summ it up with crazy good tools like :

- ranged disarm 1 min cd
- ring of peace or aoe stun 45 secs
- karma 1.5 min
- fist of fury YES, 25secs LOL
- insane mobility
- 15 secs cd on paralysis
- Bindisputably EST melee interrupt in game

tone dmg down and change some cds

ALSO while you are at it... nerf hunter dmg. MM is insane on PTR

#23 Marshmellow

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:16 AM

View PostAngrypiexx, on 07 August 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Monks do unbelievable dmg especially when u summ it up with crazy good tools like :

- ranged disarm 1 min cd
- ring of peace or aoe stun 45 secs
- karma 1.5 min
- fist of fury YES, 25secs LOL
- insane mobility
- 15 secs cd on paralysis
- Bindisputably EST melee interrupt in game

tone dmg down and change some cds

ALSO while you are at it... nerf hunter dmg. MM is insane on PTR

I would trade any of those (besides karma obviously) for some kind of passive dr

and I agree, played WW for about 3 hours on ptr today and holy shit the damage is retarded, blizzard has said they have yet to do a number pass but WW definitely needs some reductions

at least 15% on Fist of Fury

Rising sun kick should be reduced by about 15-20% and blackout kick damage should be increase by 10% to compensate

oh and take the gag order silence off of SHS tyvm shit is awful

and make fist of fury not stun after the initial stun
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#24 hid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 06 August 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

I don't view people as evil if their class is overbuffed, that's unrealistic.
I only reply to people who post bs information or saying, oh well everyone does it, when in reality, no other class comes close. Then it is followed by other bs , like oh do you know their professions and trinkets, procs?
I have one point, that is that monks %100-0 people, in stuns. You do not make out of it and I will reply to people that say otherwise. You can create a private forum when one guy posts incorrect information, everyone says how nice and discusses other issues where others can't prove otherwise. I think it's better to correct those on AJ.

This is worse than elementary school logic:
-Look I got %100-0'd by 5-6 different monks on numerous occasions.
-Yeah but do you play monk? I do and because of that, you are exaggerating.
-I don't need to play one to get one shot 20 times and post about it, also here another thread.
-Yeah but what buffs and procs does he have? Those images don't show it, therefore they are irrelevant.

As any sane person who does pvp, I prefer this stuff not to go live rather than getting fixed 2 months later after ruining the season I am posting for the off chance that some designer from Blizz reads these forums.

You got 100-0'd when TEB did 30% more damage. The only reason I responded to you was to try and set things straight. You were linking random screenshots(without context) and providing a few subjective experiences as "proof" of monks being broken (from the POV of a priest.)

As talked about a lot earlier on this forum, the good monks all agree that damage is too high, but all that talk was based on 90% TEB, not 60%. We still do a lot of damage (probably still needs a nerf, but lets at least discuss the need of that nerf based on the most current PTR build notes, and not on how we were before nerfs came in), but it is nowhere near the level you're trying to describe any more and I do not want rumors to start that we do WAAAAAY more damage than anyone else and get us overnerfed heavily (something that could easily happen without any buffs in return to any other ability talked about that needs fixing/tweaking.)

Your "elementary school logic" list is just full of random assumptions, generalizations and the fact that you think we should talk about how much dmg/burst a class does without taking into account the numbers both with and without proc/trinket stacking. I guess you meant litteral "elementary school logic".

Your need to realise that the reason I'm actually putting effort into answering posts like yours is to try and educate other people of the facts so they can follow how I personally form my opinion when I lay it out in that same post (people are still welcome to disagree, but at least then we both(and everyone else reading) know more of the facts behind someone agreeing/disagreeing with my views). An appeal to belief/popularity like "as any sane person who does pvp" used to back up your statements brings nothing to this discussion. Basically I've brought up several points (your experiences being from another PTR build for example) and all you've done is say "NUH-UH!" followed by more heavily biased and flawed information/"facts".

Edited by hid, 07 August 2013 - 05:23 PM.


#25 hid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostAngrypiexx, on 07 August 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Monks do unbelievable dmg especially when u summ it up with crazy good tools like :

- ranged disarm 1 min cd
- ring of peace or aoe stun 45 secs
- karma 1.5 min
- fist of fury YES, 25secs LOL
- insane mobility
- 15 secs cd on paralysis
- Bindisputably EST melee interrupt in game

tone dmg down and change some cds

ALSO while you are at it... nerf hunter dmg. MM is insane on PTR

Creating a random list of abilities/aspects of a class you find OP/good(?) completely out of context as some kind of proof for needing nerfs is something we better leave to the cesspool of the official forums. Thanks.

You can come up with a list of good abilities for ANY class and follow it with a list of demands/suggested "fixes", it proves _nothing_ and only shows how flawed your reasoning is.

You make my head hurt.

#26 Braindance

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:40 PM

View Posthid, on 07 August 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Creating a random list of abilities/aspects of a class you find OP/good(?) completely out of context as some kind of proof for needing nerfs is something we better leave to the cesspool of the official forums. Thanks.

You can come up with a list of good abilities for ANY class and follow it with a list of demands/suggested "fixes", it proves _nothing_ and only shows how flawed your reasoning is.

You make my head hurt.
What my two priest friend are trying to tell you is that the new tiger's eye brew is extremely strong. You can build up 10 stacks in less than 15 seconds then get a free 60% damage buff, which is the coupled with an additional 20% from the rising sun kick debuff.

Just to give you a glimpse of what I am  talking about, on the ptr with 500k hp, in defensive stance, and with 1 rising sun kick and 1 fists of fury I have to either pop wall or get to touch of death range from 100% through healing. The numbers are exorbitant ranging from 100-160k kicks to 90-100k fists per tick.

I am all in for the current monk design with amazing utility, mobility and good burst, but this mastery is practically an avatar+reck+skull banner with 30% global uptime (50% if focusing only on damage) that leads to casual one shots. And the problem is that it has no cooldown, so you can get 20 stacks and have the 60% buff up for almost 30 seconds, and in these 30 seconds you can easily get 10+ more stacks and keep going.

It's problematic.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#27 Djandawg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:06 PM

View Posthid, on 07 August 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

You got 100-0'd when TEB did 30% more damage. The only reason I responded to you was to try and set things straight. You were linking random screenshots(without context) and providing a few subjective experiences as "proof" of monks being broken (from the POV of a priest.)
No it didn't. What context do you need? It happens in arena, against many different monks. Would like me to inquire their feelings or post my room temperature during those kills? Yesterday, I got hit again many times -by different monks- , in arena with 150-180k crits. Keep in mind that this is with %30 priest reduction.

Quote

As talked about a lot earlier on this forum, the good monks all agree that damage is too high, but all that talk was based on 90% TEB, not 60%. We still do a lot of damage (probably still needs a nerf, but lets at least discuss the need of that nerf based on the most current PTR build notes, and not on how we were before nerfs came in), but it is nowhere near the level you're trying to describe any more and I do not want rumors to start that we do WAAAAAY more damage than anyone else and get us overnerfed heavily (something that could easily happen without any buffs in return to any other ability talked about that needs fixing/tweaking.)
I guess something needs to be repeated a lot when one side doesn't know what he is talking about. I am not referring to %90 period, no one does. And I am not in need to get monks overnerfed. They are one of the least preferred classes,almost all other melee are picked over them.


Quote

Your "elementary school logic" list is just full of random assumptions, generalizations and the fact that you think we should talk about how much dmg/burst a class does without taking into account the numbers both with and without proc/trinket stacking. I guess you meant litteral "elementary school logic".
This is PTR, again I am repeating, it has been done by multiple different monks. I think we can assume that most of those people use regular pvp gear, proc trinket and on use, with PTR professions,enchanting and jc. I haven't seen the animation of engineering gloves yet, I might have missed it , I can't guarantee it, but again, I will go with the assumption that all those monks are less likely to be engineers and I didn't see any shadopan/relic trinket buffs. I assumed you would deduce that from my satiric post on the previous post.

Quote

Your need to realise that the reason I'm actually putting effort into answering posts like yours is to try and educate other people of the facts so they can follow how I personally form my opinion when I lay it out in that same post (people are still welcome to disagree, but at least then we both(and everyone else reading) know more of the facts behind someone agreeing/disagreeing with my views). An appeal to belief/popularity like "as any sane person who does pvp" used to back up your statements brings nothing to this discussion. Basically I've brought up several points (your experiences being from another PTR build for example) and all you've done is say "NUH-UH!" followed by more heavily biased and flawed information/"facts".
You are in no position to educate anyone because you are uneducated yourself. Fix that, then you can attempt on others, within the boundaries of your capacity.

I think this is called projection in psychology. You try to fortify your argument by saying flawed information and bias.  
-You presented several points and I responded with NUh-uh? That's the exact thing you are doing, you are still saying I am referring to the period were the buff was %90. How dumb are you?
-Projection from a limited mind calling me biased?
What is my bias exactly? There are probably 8 ww monks out there trying to still play, what is my goal, get the number to 0? So that I gain what?  Many many people are saying on this forum that the monk dmg is unhealable, it is too much. Remember, you are afraid that someone starts  a rumor to overnerf monks. The conspiracy theory against monks. In fact, you are the one who is biased, you want this to go live.

And please, if you are gonna make another %90 era and all classes do the same dmg as monks post, don't waste your time.

Edited by Djandawg, 07 August 2013 - 08:08 PM.


#28 Syncrow

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

I hate repeating myself, but THIS DISCUSSION IS SO POINTLESS....

THE REAL FACTS:
The dmg buffs monks provide, are scaling with this keys:
  • new mastery = more frequently stacks in a shorter time
  • general dmg buff from 46%~  to 60%
  • new change for Chi Brew = 2 Chi + 2 Stacks x 2 charges every 45 seconds (+ mastery procc for the 4 chi spend to abilities this way)
    (up to 6 stacks TeB in 2 Globals)
I played monk / rshaman this morning, and we fought around 2k mmr.
  • 45% Crit
  • 46% mastery procc change (shaman mastery buff included)
Dmg during TeB + OnUseTrinket + eventually 1-2x Dancing Steel proccs:
  • FoF:
    - 40-50k noncrit
    - 80-95k crit each tick
  • Sunrise Kick
    - up to 180k crits
  • (all numbers may be weaker, but these are the highest numbers i got so far)
the only 2 things, that have to be changed to balance the dmg more would be
  • nerfing SrK and FoF dmg scaling while TeB
  • nerfing TeB dmg buff to 45% compared to live
Classes with a good absorb / melee avoid % (dodge + parry) are advantageous, against the monks current dmg, over other classes

#29 Djandawg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:06 PM

Those are in line with what I have been saying. Factor in human with double trinket or orc with blood fury, you should get the numbers.
And these are the numbers that I have been getting told that I have been exaggerating.
Thanks for clarifying.

Edited by Djandawg, 07 August 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#30 hid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostBraindance, on 07 August 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

What my two priest friend are trying to tell you is that the new tiger's eye brew is extremely strong. You can build up 10 stacks in less than 15 seconds then get a free 60% damage buff, which is the coupled with an additional 20% from the rising sun kick debuff.

Just to give you a glimpse of what I am  talking about, on the ptr with 500k hp, in defensive stance, and with 1 rising sun kick and 1 fists of fury I have to either pop wall or get to touch of death range from 100% through healing. The numbers are exorbitant ranging from 100-160k kicks to 90-100k fists per tick.

I am all in for the current monk design with amazing utility, mobility and good burst, but this mastery is practically an avatar+reck+skull banner with 30% global uptime (50% if focusing only on damage) that leads to casual one shots. And the problem is that it has no cooldown, so you can get 20 stacks and have the 60% buff up for almost 30 seconds, and in these 30 seconds you can easily get 10+ more stacks and keep going.

It's problematic.

I'm fully aware of this, I just pointed out that while people are generally right in that monks do too much damage, almost everyone seems to be exaggerating the numbers. For example, you getting crit for 100k by FoF per tick is, assuming it even happened, at the VERY extreme of what's possible, and requires stacking pretty much every proc you can with double dmg trinkets etc. The amount of times this happens is comparable to the amount of times an ele shaman randomly procs enough to oneshot someone on live. (This obviously doesn't mean it's fine, but it isn't the end of the world like you make it out to be. It's bad design.)

Edited by hid, 07 August 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#31 hid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 07 August 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Those are in line with what I have been saying. (slightly more like (5-10k) maybe due to you weren't orc?)
And these are the numbers that I have been getting told that I have been exaggerating.
Thanks for clarifying.

Those numbers are really quite far off what you've been saying. Also keep in mind that those are the MAX numbers, the average is much, much lower. Herein lies the problem in what you're trying to say. I really CBA to continue beating this dead horse, you're very welcome to continue believing everything you've said so far is correct and that I don't know what I'm talking about (you don't know me, it seems.) My previous posts stand for themselves.

Edited by hid, 07 August 2013 - 09:20 PM.


#32 Djandawg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:23 PM

View Posthid, on 07 August 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Those numbers are really quite far off what you've been saying. Also keep in mind that those are the MAX numbers, the average is much, much lower. Herein lies the problem.

Here, try to process it.

View PostSyncrow, on 07 August 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Dmg during TeB + OnUseTrinket + eventually 1-2x Dancing Steel proccs:
FoF:
- 80-95k crit each tick
Sunrise Kick
- up to 180k crits



View PostDjandawg, on 05 August 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

Not true and I am not talking about the %90 period. This is with %60 and it happened to me tons of times, with many different players. I don't think all those people formed a syndicate of ww monks and leveled engineering on live and transferred here to one shot people.
I have been critted 90-100k+ per fof hit numerous times.

View PostDjandawg, on 07 August 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

No it didn't. What context do you need? It happens in arena, against many different monks. Would like me to inquire their feelings or post my room temperature during those kills? Yesterday, I got hit again many times -by different monks- , in arena with 150-180k crits. Keep in mind that this is with %30 priest reduction.

He posts the same numbers and those don't factor in human double trinket(with proc up) or orc blood fury, as he didn't include. So yes, They are in line with my numbers even though you are incapable of matching numbers in 2 posts. Coincidentally you decided to stop arguing when someone else posted the same numbers but you were still right?
Now go back to the cave you came from , you disgustingly brainless biased idiot and don't waste time of people who know what they are talking about and try re-enroll basic education programs, maybe you won't be able to process non elementary information but they can teach you how not to perceive 80-95k and 90-100k or 180k and 150-180k as too far off(considering he didnt have all buffs)

Edited by Djandawg, 07 August 2013 - 10:51 PM.


#33 hid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

And there the insults come out. :)

Kind of easy to notice when you get to the very edge of understanding someone has for something. When you question them at that point they'll start throwing abusive ad hominem arguments around.

Thanks for proving my point and showing that you're a person that we're better off without in these forums.

At this point I think it's pretty obvious that I won't even dignify anything more you say with a response.

Edited by hid, 07 August 2013 - 11:03 PM.


#34 Djandawg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:23 PM

View Posthid, on 07 August 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

And there the insults come out. :)

Kind of easy to notice when you get to the very edge of understanding someone has for something. When you question them at that point they'll start throwing abusive ad hominem arguments around.

Thanks for proving my point and showing that you're a person that we're better off without in these forums.

At this point I think it's pretty obvious that I won't even dignify anything more you say with a response.
You got stuck with the %90 argument, you were wrong, me and 3 other people were talking about the %60 period, even though telling someone otherwise for 2-3 times should be enough.
You were saying numbers were exaggerated, then suddenly someone posted his numbers, without orc racial or human double trinket,, his numbers were so close to the numbers I have been posting. At this point a normal person(in my  experience) says, oh well I have been wrong.  You couldn't bring yourself to do it.

You thought you could say, your numbers are really way off and get away with it, hoping I wouldn't remember what I posted.
In fact, it was 150k-180k versus 180k and 90-100k vs 80-95k.(without proper racials, they are likely to be higher) You were either incapable of comparing numbers with a few digits or thought you could keep lying with the hopes that it would work. The guy posts numbers, without engineering, orc racial nor human double trinket. Your reply is , well he had every proc in the game up, those numbers are max and rare. You can't process this. That makes you a disgustingly brainless person. So , no , I am not insulting you, because it is not an insult if it is true.

There is a very good chance that you have been posting all these paragraphs with the hopes to faceroll next season, without even knowing what is going on on PTR, or simply consistently lying. Who knows. Again, sit down and stop posting consistently wrong information, it's also pretty disgusting thatinstead of admitting being completely wrong since the start, you pulled the insulted victim card, which is quite shameless.
But again, as determined you are disgustingly brainless, so probably you are out there thinking, well everyone is talking about the %90 buff, which is nerfed to %60, they are wrong and also 150-180k vs 180k is far off. So people insult me for no reason after I repeated the same thing in 480 lines, I try to educate them but I got victimized over internet forums :(

The thing is, I and many people believe that ww monk going live like this is very bad for the game. By bad I mean similarly to broken classes that ruin the game, like elemental shamans, possibly worse because you start the game at %90 hp against them.The best we can do is, post information on forums and I don't mind cleaning some trash during the process.

Edited by Djandawg, 07 August 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#35 Udderly

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 07 August 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Here, try to process it.







He posts the same numbers and those don't factor in human double trinket(with proc up) or orc blood fury, as he didn't include. So yes, They are in line with my numbers even though you are incapable of matching numbers in 2 posts. Coincidentally you decided to stop arguing when someone else posted the same numbers but you were still right?
Now go back to the cave you came from , you disgustingly brainless biased idiot and don't waste time of people who know what they are talking about and try re-enroll basic education programs, maybe you won't be able to process non elementary information but they can teach you how not to perceive 80-95k and 90-100k or 180k and 150-180k as too far off(considering he didnt have all buffs)

Why is it impossible for you in any thread to make it through without degenerating into a 3rd grade poo slinging fight?  If this is a problem for you IRL too, you may want to rethink some things man.  I am personally tired of your posts, despite the fact that 80% of each post might have good info in it, the other 20% is just absolute trash and typically you shitting on someone else by throwing insults.  

Try to freaking relax

#36 Okayenhance

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:36 PM

Monks just take too much damage to be a good class. Your damage takes buildup but you take too much pressure before then.

#37 Marshmellow

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostOkayenhance, on 07 August 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Monks just take too much damage to be a good class. Your damage takes buildup but you take too much pressure before then.

pretty much this, my initial thinking was that since blizzard basically made all of WW's mechanics revolve around Tigereye Brew so that they would just continue to balance WW around their damage output, which is exactly what they are doing now. They wanted Tigereye Brew to have a shorter build up time, which right now on the PTR the build up time is about 25 seconds if you have 100% uptime on your target, 25 seconds for a 60% damage increase is just too good imo, they should just take a chunk of our damage away and build it into some kind of passive defense mechanic so we don't randomly die to all the other dumb shit that is currently running around.
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#38 Djandawg

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostUdderly, on 07 August 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why is it impossible for you in any thread to make it through without degenerating into a 3rd grade poo slinging fight?  If this is a problem for you IRL too, you may want to rethink some things man.  I am personally tired of your posts, despite the fact that 80% of each post might have good info in it, the other 20% is just absolute trash and typically you shitting on someone else by throwing insults.  

Try to freaking relax

You are claiming that I trash talk in any thread. This is probably how you perceive things because you are irritated or have other problems with me. I believe this is not the case though. However, I will sometimes respond to offensive comments. Here for instance, my reaction is to some guy that keeps posting wrong information for an unknown reason and claiming to "educate" people. I find this offensive.

You can check my post history, we can do it together if you want. There are bunch of threads that I respond to strategy questions or simply to people who ask for help. even to questions in game and private messages, to the best of my ability, but if we exclude this post, I never brought any of that up, because it's not my style.

If you think %80 of my posts have good info and you legitimately believe that I should change the way I post and relax, why didn't you just send me a pm? Or if you are legitimately tired of my posts, why don't you just silently put me on the ignore list? That's what I have done to many people.  Why do you sneak in to an argument to post this? That's something to think about, for you.

Edited by Djandawg, 08 August 2013 - 01:40 PM.


#39 Djandawg

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostOkayenhance, on 07 August 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Monks just take too much damage to be a good class. Your damage takes buildup but you take too much pressure before then.
The build up is not as bad as before though and the buff uptime is quite nice. Also come next patch, if they play with a resto druid, they will be kept up , no problem.

#40 Syncrow

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:41 AM

View PostUdderly, on 07 August 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Try to freaking relax

Thats, why i said 2 times before that this discussion is pointless..but a dispute needs more than 1 person!

So, pls relax and let us come back to the real problems...

View PostDjandawg, on 08 August 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

The build up is not as bad as before though and the buff uptime is quite nice.

Yeah, personally I thing the new mastery compared with the new chi brew is way better handled than before.. it makes more fun to fight, without waiting years for your 10 stacks..it passivly increase our overall dmg output, sure, but the real problem is the 60% TeB or the scaling for FoF / SrK...

------------------------------------

I forgot to say... as i played 2v2 there were some comps that make it hard to kill someone...even if you swifty people with TeB + FoF...
I noticed that monks are vulnerable to absorb in general (disc priests / heal palas / ...)

Monk burst seems to be near the strongest among all melee classes right now, but casters do at least as much dmg.

My suggestion:
  • let FoF / SrK scale 45% from TeB and all other dmg 60%
  • or reduce TeB in general to 50%.
  • new mastery is fine as it is now!
  • dont know if Xuen benefits from TeB (If it is so, then let it scale with 45%)
I say 45%, cause its the % amount on live...
OK, you could argue, that you still get higher stats and hence higher dmg, BUT all classes get this boni.
And you can not prevent, that some classes scale better and others worse with gear.





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