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Warriors in 5.4


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#61 Tribalqtx

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

I know it's asking a lot but,

warrior troubles would be fixed if, reck was a 2min cd with avatar and banner but the effects were reduced respectively, less damage etc on avatar buff and a shorter duration on reck maybe?

Remove CS entirely, since we don't have a passive ARP - what's the point in having this outdated mechanic in the game, if our damage is based around our CS damage - anything outside of CS on a target with worthwhile armour is bound to be lower - therefore our pressure suffers hugely.

I just think constant pressure, with cds that make a bit of an impact while going for a kill, would make a world of difference, instead of turning into a monster every 3 minutes (until you get trolled by the first haphazard root that comes your way).

Bladestorm should be baseline and should always have been baseline. It's our most iconic ability imo, it's like a mage having to pick between deep freeze and polymorph. I just don't think it makes any sense. If anything, combining all of the talent trees into one group was a daft change because it drastically reduces the customisation of a class - there would be so much more room for change, small class tweaks by changing talents - than a total upheaval of the spec which seems to happen fairly regularly now.

That's how I feel about it really :)
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#62 Greymindz

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:52 PM

Remove CS entirely, since we don't have a passive ARP - what's the point in having this outdated mechanic in the game, if our damage is based around our CS damage - anything outside of CS on a target with worthwhile armour is bound to be lower - therefore our pressure suffers hugely.


i think this is honestly the biggest thing. this is the reason why warrior dmg sucks. dmg balanced around a random debuff proc.

edit: as meele.

Edited by Grahmenz, 05 August 2013 - 07:52 PM.

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#63 bav

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

What about the Intervene change? (Intervene now also breaks roots and snares when used.)

It allows us to spec into Mass Spell Reflect or Vigilance (which is a 30% pain sub, instead of a damanage transfer in 5.4). I know it's not that big deal, but it opens up the lvl 75 talents a bit. Unfortunately most changes made so far are QoL changes.

But they say that the number tweaking will happen at the end of the test cycle. So a bit of hope is still there ^^
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#64 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:07 AM

Been playing PTR alot and I can say few things about warriors.
+You do better damage than live, Sweeping strikes buff is really good and as human with pvp trinkets you can do 100k slams without poppin CD's. You can do 150k slams on clothies or even higher with cooldowns. (You have 450k/500k hp in PTR)
+Sweeping Strikes bladestorm with cd's does 100k+ crits and it is pretty deadly and forces cooldowns to be used to survive.
+Reflect / wall change is really good. You can keep losing your healer while taking damage and you push the same pressure.
+hamstring ofgcd is really good.
+Thunder clap does almost same damage than mortal strike but aoe

-you dont have any cc at all, so you rely on your teammates
-rage feels akward.. if you get lucky crits from MS & CS you get enraged and you flood in rage but if those two doesnt crit you are "starved" even in battle stance. Also it feels hard to apply Sweeping Strikes (costs 30 rage).
-glyph of whirlwind is useless, doesnt work in dstance

I am not sure how other classes are right now but I am always doing triple the damage my partner does. I love that with Sweeping Strikes up, after CS, if slam crits it does really good damage (even 100k).

So fix rage a bit, make op 5 rage, make Colosss smash generate 5 rage, 10 if crits. Make sweepåing strikes 20 rage or give glyph to make it free.
Make storm bolt baseline, introduce old deadly calm or inner rage or something 1min cd.

I think after those changes we would be good.
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#65 Bootzx

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:08 AM

Theres actually alot of warrior concerns being tweeted to Holinka at the moment, which is good to see. Jenny dawson is having a good dig, good on her. twitter.com/JennyDawsons


I hope you arent actually suggesting that person knows anything at all about pvp if so we might as well let zilea balance the whole fucking game so holy is the only class that can win.
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#66 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:16 AM

I made this post so you guys know how bad warr desing is right now. Lets say you are focused and you sit in defensive stance.
You get 1 rage every 3sec, 10 rage in 30 secs (half minute). Lets say you smash keyboard like reckful and you do 5 Mortal strikes in 30secs, lets be suicidal and say 2 of them gets parried (= no rage), lets be optimist that one enraged us because 20% of crit chance.
3 gave 10 rage 1 gave 20 rage, so basicly 50 rage from Mortal strikes in 30 secs. Lets have some faith and believe Sudden death procced and we crited with both colossus smash, thats 20 more rage in 30secs.

50 rage from MS + 20s rage from CS + 10 rage from sitting in dstance = 90 rage in 30secs.
30s/1.5 = 20 globals. 5 globals were MS 2 globals were CS, so we have 13 globals to use and 90 rage.
Now live hamstring costs 7 rage, and every 6th global needs to be hamstring, so 3 globals were hamstring which costs us 21 rage. We still have 69 rage + 10 globals to use. Slam costs 20 rage, do we use it? HS/Cleave costs 30 rage and out of gcd. Lets say we use some OPs and waiting Mortal strike ?!

Ofc Charge and glyph of bullrush helps a LOT! But I hope that every class who uses mana or energy as resource knows how shit rage is right now.

Back to PTR topic, as fury if you get agility trinket what procs 12k mastery you get like 70%~ mastery and you basicly 2 shot things.. worht trying.. I did 350k dragons roar on dstance warrior and even with pvp trinkets 300k~
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#67 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:17 AM

They need to just gut this game back to where you only had to worry about 1 thing like death wish or bladestorm. It's stupid how much CC is in this game and how much burst ect like as a warrior atm on live it feels like I have NO damage until avatar or bloodbath and I have 0 CC other than fear and a 40second shockwave it's just unreal when I see jungle or ret hunt priest or just god comp have so much CC but 90% of warrior comps it's just like eh we are forced to play with a feral or hunter to get anywhere. Also mortal strike healing debuff does not seem like it's even doing anything outside of cooldowns.. people just outheal like it's nothing but maybe that's because our damage is horrid outside of CDs? also I dislike dying to spell cleaves in 3s within 3 seconds while in D stance. This x-pac is garbage and seems like it will remain garbage until it's over.


Execute outside of cooldowns 20k-30k but a warlocks shadowburn is 70k-130k?
Heroic strike hitting for 8k-16k while colossus smash is up.
Shockwave hits for 18k with cooldowns up.
Slam on global with other abilitys is a bit annoying as I try not to use heroic strike normally unless my target is below 30%...

Edited by Eazymothafukne, 06 August 2013 - 11:19 AM.

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#68 Evilcow

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:17 AM

+Sweeping Strikes bladestorm with cd's does 100k+ crits and it is pretty deadly and forces cooldowns to be used to survive.

-glyph of whirlwind is useless, doesnt work in dstance


Didn't they change SS to not make BS hit twice a long time ago?
Glyph of whirlwind is working in DStance for me, I spend 20rage on a WW and get 15rage back over 6s, not very good though...
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#69 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:43 AM

Didn't they change SS to not make BS hit twice a long time ago?
Glyph of whirlwind is working in DStance for me, I spend 20rage on a WW and get 15rage back over 6s, not very good though...


In cata I think yes but it works in mop. SS copies everything. WW Glyph is only good when you have situation like "I need to go behind pillar with d stance I am battle stance now and full rage bar lets whirlwind :D and switch to dstance and go ham.
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#70 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:46 AM

They need to just gut this game back to where you only had to worry about 1 thing like death wish or bladestorm. It's stupid how much CC is in this game and how much burst ect like as a warrior atm on live it feels like I have NO damage until avatar or bloodbath and I have 0 CC other than fear and a 40second shockwave it's just unreal when I see jungle or ret hunt priest or just god comp have so much CC but 90% of warrior comps it's just like eh we are forced to play with a feral or hunter to get anywhere. Also mortal strike healing debuff does not seem like it's even doing anything outside of cooldowns.. people just outheal like it's nothing but maybe that's because our damage is horrid outside of CDs? also I dislike dying to spell cleaves in 3s within 3 seconds while in D stance. This x-pac is garbage and seems like it will remain garbage until it's over.


Execute outside of cooldowns 20k-30k but a warlocks shadowburn is 70k-130k?
Heroic strike hitting for 8k-16k while colossus smash is up.
Shockwave hits for 18k with cooldowns up.
Slam on global with other abilitys is a bit annoying as I try not to use heroic strike normally unless my target is below 30%...


When 5.4 hits and you test bladestorm you will ever never want to go back shockwave. Bladestorm is so good.
Just pop avatar reck sweeping strikes cs ms slam, oh cyclone coming? Finish target with bladestorm and interrupt with disrupting shout. It so much fun.

I agree our execute is a joke. I like that warrior were a "executing class". Our execute doesnt make sense
costs 1/3 of our resource, needs to be in melee range, need to "have" that resource" gets parried and dodged and does nothing :D
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#71 Häxantutto

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:55 AM

Havnt read anything but i'll just assume warriors will suck, false hopes like always... ;(
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#72 Evilcow

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:56 PM

In cata I think yes but it works in mop. SS copies everything.


I tried it on the PTR and SS isn't proccing from Bladestorm when you'r on a single target like it used to...
SS is proccing from Bladestorm on 2 or more targets but when I pop SS+BS on 2 target dummies my BS does 1M dmg and SS only does 250k, doesn't seem to be copying 75% of damage...
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#73 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

When 5.4 hits and you test bladestorm you will ever never want to go back shockwave. Bladestorm is so good.
Just pop avatar reck sweeping strikes cs ms slam, oh cyclone coming? Finish target with bladestorm and interrupt with disrupting shout. It so much fun.

I agree our execute is a joke. I like that warrior were a "executing class". Our execute doesnt make sense
costs 1/3 of our resource, needs to be in melee range, need to "have" that resource" gets parried and dodged and does nothing :D

I tested bladestorm on ptr and I have to say it's alright vs some comps but the thing is you have 0 control and you cannot peel for anything. I don't think bladestorm will be > than shockwave just because if someone lives thru reck avatar storm you have 0 control meaning someone could just train you or your teamates to the ground and you have no way of peeling for him besides charge stun and warbringer is not going to be anything with a root when most classes has a way out of.
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#74 Volatile

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:30 PM

IMO, you don't need 100k Bladestorm crits for it to apply pressure. Remember it hits 7x in 6 seconds. If it hits a PvP target for 40k non crit, that's 280k damage during a 6 sec CC, with bad luck (no crits) and no cool downs used, just C-smash, and not counting auto-attack. That can kill someone off from ~60% HP within 1 CC. If you are satisfied with that type of pressure every minute, then pick up StormBolt for CC and peeling.

Really you just need to get them to below 20% when Bladestorm ends because you can then immediately Execute+Heroic Strike. You will have plenty of rage after BS.

The final thing I'd really like to see is Staggering Shout not breaking on damage so it's a reliable peel again.
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#75 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:43 PM

I tested bladestorm on ptr and I have to say it's alright vs some comps but the thing is you have 0 control and you cannot peel for anything. I don't think bladestorm will be > than shockwave just because if someone lives thru reck avatar storm you have 0 control meaning someone could just train you or your teamates to the ground and you have no way of peeling for him besides charge stun and warbringer is not going to be anything with a root when most classes has a way out of.


I think many warriors think right now that they cannot "peel" even if they have shockwave or spec into stormbolt. I think next patch you can peel "abit" better with stormbolt buff and then do damage every 3min for 12s (reck). After that you dont do anything.
Or you spec avatar and bladestorm, snipe very good situation when to reck avatar, and finish the shit with bladestorm. And every 1min (onuse trinket + bladestorm).

You can decide which is "funnier", peel your friends / yourself (which doesnt make any difference you stil llose) or kill things in bladestorm.

Actually when they made Sweeping Strikes "viable" that could open solutions when you could go berserker stance when enemy teams train you and punish them with 10s Sweeping strikes Colossus smash slams. But I dont know.. if its better to soak the damage and do nothing or beg your healer to crit with heals and punish them.
Also what I noticed in PTR was that every class basicly oneshots you, I dont know if its time to go back resilience gems and I am not sure if it will help warriors or make warriors even shittier.
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#76 shunke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

I tried it on the PTR and SS isn't proccing from Bladestorm when you'r on a single target like it used to...
SS is proccing from Bladestorm on 2 or more targets but when I pop SS+BS on 2 target dummies my BS does 1M dmg and SS only does 250k, doesn't seem to be copying 75% of damage...


If you read the tooltip it cannot copy from single target to single target but it will copy, let say hunter and hunter pet is there.
It will copy from hunters pet to hunter and hunter -> hunters pet so its damn good if there is 1 2 or 3 targets when you storm with sweeping strikes.
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#77 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:17 PM

I think many warriors think right now that they cannot "peel" even if they have shockwave or spec into stormbolt. I think next patch you can peel "abit" better with stormbolt buff and then do damage every 3min for 12s (reck). After that you dont do anything.
Or you spec avatar and bladestorm, snipe very good situation when to reck avatar, and finish the shit with bladestorm. And every 1min (onuse trinket + bladestorm).

You can decide which is "funnier", peel your friends / yourself (which doesnt make any difference you stil llose) or kill things in bladestorm.

Actually when they made Sweeping Strikes "viable" that could open solutions when you could go berserker stance when enemy teams train you and punish them with 10s Sweeping strikes Colossus smash slams. But I dont know.. if its better to soak the damage and do nothing or beg your healer to crit with heals and punish them.
Also what I noticed in PTR was that every class basicly oneshots you, I dont know if its time to go back resilience gems and I am not sure if it will help warriors or make warriors even shittier.

problem with playing stormbolt bladestorm is you lose so much burst by dropping avatar or bloodbath and makes it feel like bladestorm does nothing until you have reck off cooldown. imho bladestorm will only be viable if you play a comp like tsg other than that shockwave will be better for peels and control. Again thats just my opinion.
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#78 Ezyo1000

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:46 PM

problem with playing stormbolt bladestorm is you lose so much burst by dropping avatar or bloodbath and makes it feel like bladestorm does nothing until you have reck off cooldown. imho bladestorm will only be viable if you play a comp like tsg other than that shockwave will be better for peels and control. Again thats just my opinion.


This is why i am hoping the next change they make is for SB's base damage to be increased to be worth taking, something like 200% for Fury, 250-260% for arms. It needs to make up for our loss of burst from avatar and loss of sustained from BB, I mean i would be happy if its damage stayed the same but increased our damage by 5-10% whenever we hit a stunnable target with it, Something like:

Power surge: Your storm bolt hits against stunnable targets increases your damage done by 10% for 10-15 sec.
Or
Power surge: Passive- Increases all damage done by 5%
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#79 Pinka

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:47 PM

Sweeping strikes + bladestorm does enough pressure to peel. I think shockwave is rather overvalueed. A 4 second stun every 40 seconds really isn't impressive.
Also you might lose that slight peel. But instead you gain a 7 sec cc immunity. Which is something which makes up for it.

Today i have duelled again. Just to feel depressed again on how lol our damage is. Really people. You ask for cc / utility buffs. But it is just our shitty damage which is making us dog.

As mentioned. We do not have the utility and even the damage of a hybrid. We are just a class with weaknesses and no strengths.
The warrior class should be a tough to kill with high melee damage. But our weakness should be low cc and no ranged capabilities.

They did the tough part kind of right. But the damage is still a joke. From all patchnotes. There are some qol improvements which should have been done a whole expansion ago. But so far both our pvp and pve dmg is loldog with our mighty 12k crits.
Our rotation between slam and overpower is not clear enough. And it almost makes no sence as those two abilities compete too much.
But even then. Slam might be strong during cooldowns. But overpower is just too awful to be a rotational ability. And our Iconic ability called Mortal strike is just nothing more then a rage ability.
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#80 irubuwrongtime

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:00 PM

Sweeping strikes + bladestorm does enough pressure to peel. I think shockwave is rather overvalueed. A 4 second stun every 40 seconds really isn't impressive.


Well, as for my kitty cleave, we're kinda doomed w/o my triple shockwave and I make the best effort to land it at a good time. So it's more like 4 sec stun for the whole enemy team (I know it's not ez to land triple shockwave including enemy healer) with 20 sec cd. If you do get this down tho, shockwave > bladestorm anyday.
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