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With ESL trying out GW2, how is the future of PvP looking?

GW2 guild wars 2 esl pvp future popularity

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#1 Neverever

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

Some random qs to people who play:

Have people who play GW2 regularly seen an increase/decrease in pvp participation recently? Are a lot of people coming back to the game who were put off before?

How's balance?

Is PvP still just conquest and world pvp? Any plans on introducing small scale pvp without objectives just deathmatch type? Fewer than 5v5?

How's your experience of the game recently?

How come there's hardly ever any people streaming GW2? I know Teldo is meant to be a good GW2 player but I only ever seen him get 200 viewers tops. Is this reflective of the game's popularity?

Is it worth investing time on becoming good at this game? Does it have a future to support that?

Is the combat deeper than wow's? I hear a lot of people saying that it's more balanced but ultimately more shallow. Is this a fair criticism?

Would appreciate any other observations from people who played both wow and this and who are playing it currently.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#2 ysnakewoo

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:53 AM

Is the combat deeper than wow's? I hear a lot of people saying that it's more balanced but ultimately more shallow. Is this a fair criticism?

I can only answer this question with being in the top 3 guilds on my server (was a high populated server, can't remember the name). This is a completely unfair criticism. Here is why. WoW players tend to think that more abilities means more skill, especially the ignorant 1.8k majority of players, that is definitely not true and that is precisely the reason why WoW is not an enjoyable esport to watch, however, it is extremely fun to play, we all know that. It is very much deeper than WoW. WoW high-end arenas shift from one side having brought someone to approximately 20% in a matter of seconds, then that team does the same thing to the other. Sorry, that's just not fun to watch.

However, considering GW2, glass cannon builds have always been the burst type. For example, you will not see a glass-cannon build out-sustain ANYONE with a normal or a defensive build, unless they make major mistakes and do not dodge things accordingly. However, every DPS class in WoW is currently glass-cannon, full main stat, yolo and hope you gib something before you get gibbed.

GW2 combat system relies on your game mechanics and how well are you able to predict the following moves, and if you do predict them via game-sense, you have the edge in that encounter.

Teamfights can look like a clusterfuck of abilities, but keep in mind, that's around 10 abilities thrown out by each class, and that means, all classes wasting all of their cooldowns (besides the skills) in that fight. If you see a Guardian use his #5, you're free to rez someone or execute someone, etc.

Overall, if GW2 didn't fucking fuck up so badly at the start, they could have had an MMORPG esport, which is hard to find nowadays.

In DAoC, for example, most DPS classes had 4 to 6 abilities to use offensively, and that is still a more skillful game than WoW currently is. In GW2, if you know how to play your class and know what the other class does, and he is "less skillful" than you are, there is just no way the other player can defeat you in a 1v1 fight, or even 1v2. We all know how shit that is in WoW.

I have made too many references to WoW, but if you have an account for GW2, just leave it over the night to update and play the game for several hours and figure out yourself how are things and is it worth coming back to the game. I still can't forgive arenanet for fucking the game up after the launch.
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#3 GLopez

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:35 AM

ArenaNet is also hosting a tournament at PAX Prime.

Let me just preface this by admitting that the game is in no way perfect. There are still some issues that irk me. In particular, I think ArenaNet really needs to speed up its bug-fixing and balancing cycle. With that said, they are definitely faster than Blizzard is with World of Warcraft, considering Guild Wars 2 gets a major patch every two weeks.

Anyway, here are some answers:

The balance is probably the best it's ever been. Every class currently has a viable build, even warriors. There are still some problem classes, with necromancers in particular getting nerf after nerf and still appearing too strong. (The latest hotfix seems to have done the trick at bringing necromancer in line, but that went in yesterday, so the metagame needs a bit more time to settle before that call is made.) Some people argue the balance is still bad because each class can't play eight different builds, but I'm satisfied with each class having one to three viable options.

It's still world vs. world and conquest, but ArenaNet has gotten better at designing secondary objectives that make each map feel completely different. They are also planning on adding more maps in the future. (Disclaimer: The latest map they added — Skyhammer — tried to stray from traditional conquest too much, and the playerbase actually hated it. So ArenaNet still has some work to do.)

I have a lot of fun with the game now. As a necromancer last patch, I honestly felt overpowered to the point of boredom. This patch, I feel a lot more well-rounded because they nerfed my damage and buffed my survivability, which is what high-rated necromancers were asking for in the first place. The latest patch has also brought in more viable builds, with warriors making more common appearances. It's a lot of fun, and I do at least three games a day without any major complaints.

I don't know why that many people don't stream or watch streams. Even the tournament streams seem to do poorly. On the other hand, I always see a lot of people in the PvP zone, and the world vs. world and PvE zones are consistently packed. I can also tell you that the game apparently has 2.5 million active weekly players, which honestly surprised me (I expected 500,000 at most). Maybe ArenaNet just doesn't do a good enough encouraging and marketing streaming or maybe the game isn't easy to watch with all the ridiculous spell effects going on. (To be fair, ArenaNet has said they're planning on adding a slider for spell effects.)

I think so. It's certainly fun enough to deserve my time. ArenaNet also claims each aspect of the game is seeing increasing numbers from week to week, but that's impossible for us to verify.

I can understand why someone would try the combat at first and admit it's shallow, but it definitely has depth at higher tiers of play. One-on-ones are actually relevant, and they feel a lot less scripted than the typical World of Warcraft fight. Group fights are the same, with class combinations playing a big role as combo fields and different kinds of utility skills and crowd-control abilities come into play. There's also a lot more emphasis on individual skill since everyone has to keep himself alive instead of relying on healers, although peels and group heals do play a good role.

Edited by GLopez, 28 July 2013 - 06:37 AM.

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#4 Neverever

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:02 PM

Wow, thx both of you for the responses, that was exactly what I was looking for. I wrote the following quite quickly so it might not be properly formatted or written etc. I should say I've never really played GW2. I was really excited about it during beta but when I finally participated in a beta weekend I was just massively turned off by the feel of the movement and uninstalled pretty quickly. The problem with mmos is that it takes a long time of playing one to realise whether the game is bad or whether you are bad. After playing most other games, say an fps or a racing game you know within about 30 minutes how good the game is which you can't really judge with mmos so that's why I was asking these questions. However, within the first few minutes of playing wow I knew I liked it. I didn't get this feeling from gw2 so I just gave up on it pretty quickly, but since playing wow for so long has made the game feel stale to me I'm thinking of other stuff to try atm or I might just end up waiting for wildstar.

I also had some follow up qs as well:


WoW players tend to think that more abilities means more skill


Whilst I also agree that wow is suffering from ability bloat when I look at GW2's streams I see only a handful of abilities being used. I think there are like 1 - 2 rotation abiltiies and then the other 8 you use situationally and this just doesn't feel like there would be enough to do, but I could be getting the wrong end of the stick here.

WoW high-end arenas shift from one side having brought someone to approximately 20% in a matter of seconds, then that team does the same thing to the other. Sorry, that's just not fun to watch.


I agree that this is the MoP style of play required to succeed where every class benefits from using their swifty macro off cd and I know gameplay revolves around this atm, however, excluding this wow has a lot which gives it depth e.g. the mind games of juking & being juked, how you can abuse positioning and cleverly force bad positions, the immense satisfaction of lining up ccs with teammates and timing cross ccs. In GW2 I know abilities can't be interrupted. There is a lot about wow pvp which is very deep, rich and satisfying imo EVEN IF it isn't required to do any of this to succeed currently.

You mentioned why you don't think wow's combat is as deep as gw2's but what is it that makes gw2's combat deep? What would you give as examples to prove this? Is it the same stuff as in wow or is it different things unique to that game? I know you can dodge abilities so that's at least one thing that would be interesting but what else is there?

For example, you will not see a glass-cannon build out-sustain ANYONE with a normal or a defensive build, unless they make major mistakes and do not dodge things accordingly.


I'm not quite sure I'm understanding what you're saying here. Are you saying that if I have a normal/defensive build and I'm fighting someone with a glass-cannon build I should be able to beat them as long as I play properly? If so, that's a good thing.

GW2 combat system relies on your game mechanics and how well are you able to predict the following moves, and if you do predict them via game-sense, you have the edge in that encounter.


I feel like I could say the same thing about wow, even though playing like this is not necessary to succeed at the moment, it is one of the fundamentals of combat in wow. It's still part of the game even if its importance has been diluted.

Teamfights can look like a clusterfuck of abilities, but keep in mind, that's around 10 abilities thrown out by each class, and that means, all classes wasting all of their cooldowns (besides the skills) in that fight.


I heard that the combat largely involved spamming aoe abilities since there is no real penalty for using aoe vs. single target. Is this true?

In DAoC, for example, most DPS classes had 4 to 6 abilities to use offensively, and that is still a more skillful game than WoW currently is. In GW2, if you know how to play your class and know what the other class does, and he is "less skillful" than you are, there is just no way the other player can defeat you in a 1v1 fight, or even 1v2. We all know how shit that is in WoW.


This is actually really interesting and I've heard many others say good things about DAoC so I'm gonna check out some old vids for comparison. If that 1v1 stuff you're saying is true then that is mega and a testament to skill required in gw2 which is great.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#5 Neverever

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

With that said, they are definitely faster than Blizzard is with World of Warcraft, considering Guild Wars 2 gets a major patch every two weeks.


Why would you say that a major patch every 2 weeks is not enough? Does the game still have a long way to go before it is fixed/in a good state? Or other reasons?

Every class currently has a viable build, even warriors. There are still some problem classes, with necromancers in particular getting nerf after nerf and still appearing too strong.


This sounds really good. Presumably they are trying to make sure the game is in its best state before the real ESL cup? Either way, this is a huge plus point.


It's still world vs. world and conquest, but ArenaNet has gotten better at designing secondary objectives that make each map feel completely different. They are also planning on adding more maps in the future. (Disclaimer: The latest map they added — Skyhammer — tried to stray from traditional conquest too much, and the playerbase actually hated it. So ArenaNet still has some work to do.)


I believe people were saying that because of GW2's game style and meta game, all maps have to be 5v5 conquest for serious pvp otherwise it doesn't work, so I'm guessing that either 3v3 or anything smaller than 5v5 won't be implemented any time soon? I'll have to check out these other maps with unique secondary objectives but I am still iffy about the idea of anything other than deathmatch.


It's a lot of fun, and I do at least three games a day without any major complaints.


This was what I wanted to specifically ask about. How easy is it to find people to play with? Presumably you have specific friends you play with but how easy/difficult is it for someone starting out to find a team to play with?

I don't know why that many people don't stream or watch streams. Even the tournament streams seem to do poorly. On the other hand, I always see a lot of people in the PvP zone, and the world vs. world and PvE zones are consistently packed. I can also tell you that the game apparently has 2.5 million active weekly players, which honestly surprised me (I expected 500,000 at most).


I actually hear the same things. People say that in-game is packed. And those stats of 2.5 million active weekly players are very encouraging. I think you can understand that when looking to start a new mmo you want one that will be supported and is popular since they take so long to learn before you can play properly (knowing all abilities etc.). I also checked out your link and this was quite amusing: "Rating by Game Authority IGN (luls): 9/10". Diablo III got 9.5/10 from the gaming authority so maybe I should be playing that :S

I can understand why someone would try the combat at first and admit it's shallow, but it definitely has depth at higher tiers of play. One-on-ones are actually relevant, and they feel a lot less scripted than the typical World of Warcraft fight. Group fights are the same, with class combinations playing a big role as combo fields and different kinds of utility skills and crowd-control abilities come into play. There's also a lot more emphasis on individual skill since everyone has to keep himself alive instead of relying on healers, although peels and group heals do play a good role.


Actually, as I stated above, I never really played GW2 even at low level properly. This criticism of shallow gameplay is just what I have heard from many people who went from wow to gw2 and then back to wow again.

What would you say or give examples of that would show how GW2 combat is deep/deeper than wow's?

I think based on everything that's been said I'm going to just wait for the ESL since it's not far away and then decide afterwards whether to give gw2 a try or not. But your answers were very helpful thx.

Also, Lopez, I vaguely remember you writing in a post a while back that you didn't feel wow was worth paying the sub fee for and that was what made you quit. Do you still feel that way and is that still your primary reason for leaving?
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#6 GLopez

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:16 PM

The game doesn't really have a long way to go at this point because it has all the basic e-sports features we should expect, from spectator mode to a ladder. I'm just concerned that any flawed balance changes could slow down the game's momentum. Another caveat to the two-week patches is that ArenaNet is very slow and steady with balance changes. They don't want to have patches in which one class suddenly gains 50 percent damage and shoots to the top. Patches typically turn knobs to slowly open up more builds for each class. I think it's smarter than Blizzard's extreme approach, but it can feel a bit slow from patch to patch if your class or build is lacking.

Most of the balance changes have been for their PAX tournament, which is actually going on right now. But they have said they're specifically going to let the metagame settle for a bit as these tournaments play out.

I doubt anything smaller than five-on-five will ever be implemented, but I don't find that to be a problem. I was also iffy on conquest at first, but I think it's a lot better for balance overall. (One problem with arenas in World of Warcraft was that arena's one-dimensional objective always eliminated alternative roles, such as tanking and hybrid builds.)

I find it pretty easy to find people to play with, but I'm currently pretty high up in the ladder, so that might be playing a skewing role. Still, I see people in-game spamming for teams and there's also a section on the official forums dedicated to finding a team. It shouldn't be difficult to find a team, assuming you're not playing a useless build.

I definitely agree that the game has to be receiving steady support for it to remain interesting. If I felt Guild Wars 2 was losing population or otherwise going downhill, I would not be playing.

The best example of depth is the mind games that can be played with cast times and rolls. Watching for an opponent's rolls is the difference between good and great players in team and one-on-one fights. As a necromancer, once I know a target has rolled twice, I can apply a lot of conditions, ask a thief or warrior to change over, and secure a kill. (If this sounds a lot like RLS and WLS, it's because it is, except it's more about picking up one person's mistake instead of an entire team's.) It makes the game feel a lot more rewarding on an individual basis, whereas most of World of Warcraft's depth comes from a team perspective.

I gave World of Warcraft another shot a few months ago because my friends kept asking me to play. I ended up getting to lv. 90 and quitting within a few battlegrounds and arenas because I found the combat to be terrible. It felt very scripted, and there was way too much instant CC. The classes also felt more mindless than ever before. That didn't seem worth it to me, subscription or not.

Edited by GLopez, 28 July 2013 - 08:22 PM.

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#7 Bamflol

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:19 PM

This was what I wanted to specifically ask about. How easy is it to find people to play with? Presumably you have specific friends you play with but how easy/difficult is it for someone starting out to find a team to play with?


It was very easy to find people to play with after they fixed the tournies near launch, and after logging in once a month to mess around, i'm still able to pug paid tournies easy. It is however, lacking organized guilds to play with. If you can find some small/starting up guild to play with, i'd go at it. even if they are clearly not that great at the game anyway, just to get a view on tourny play and the basic strats.
Personally, i'd be playing gw2 if my friends still played it. I enjoyed the tourny scene and the combat, however only while playing with friends where people can have fun with it. Anet looks like they want to keep pushing for their promise of making this a popular esport so i'll still keep hope with them in the future after I find some friends to que up with.

Combat wise, the only thing I really disliked was the downed feature+use of teleporting/resetting the cast on you (im looking at you thieves). Not disliked to the point of "i hate this", but more so "this is a large inconvenience" . Sure some classes need fixing, i.e at one point while playing warrior, the only time youd ever find a pug to play with/or guild was if you could execute your charge knockdown>swifty 1shot blade flurry in 2 seconds properly, other than that you were basically never wanted/useless.
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#8 GLopez

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:23 PM

I do miss some of my World of Warcraft friends. I wish more of them had stuck with it, but I think a lot of people are resistant to learning an entirely new game when they can just play their old one.
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#9 Bamflol

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:28 PM

I do miss some of my World of Warcraft friends. I wish more of them had stuck with it, but I think a lot of people are resistant to learning an entirely new game when they can just play their old one.

this is basically what happened for myself/group of friends ontop of the fact that they felt no progression in the game at the time due to the only progression was your advancement of a rank for cosmetics.
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#10 GLopez

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:51 PM

Yeah. That's actually one thing they still need to improve. The progression system is still kind of crappy on just the PvP side. They have said a new one is in the works, though.
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#11 Rerroll

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:30 PM

@Neverever

I'm a huge fan of gw2 pvp and i've played thousands of hours, however I wouldn't recommend you to buy it until soloq is implemented.

At the moment if you play solo you'll face premades and probably lose 500 to 0, and trust me it's quite frustrating sometimes. The game is extremely enjoyable when you play as a team, but friends can't be online all the time so a proper soloq is mandatory

Anyway, tomorrow they'll announce the next patch that should come in 1 or 2 weeks plus today a dev said that soloq will come sooner than we expect. Crossed fingers.
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#12 GLopez

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:15 PM

Solo queue will likely come out next week. That will definitely help a lot.
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#13 Neverever

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

I looked at some gameplay videos to try and see if I could be persuaded to play and it just looks awful. The same handful of abilities are being spammed over and over again. It's very weird hearing the person doing the voiceover be so excited whilst saying things like "clusterbombing, stepping away, clusterbomb, shadow refuge, clusterbomb, running away etc. etc."

I think I must be getting the wrong end of the stick and there are parts of the metagame which I am not registering. What I will do is perhaps look at some tournament vods and hear shoutcasting from seasoned commentators to help with this.

Lopez, you gave an interesting example of the kind of micro strategy involved in GW2 with watching for how many rolls a character has done before coordinating an attack on him but really how is this different to watching for which defensive CDs have been used in WoW arena before you switch over? Perhaps it is different because rolls are on a lower CD in GW2 so the opportunity to exploit this comes up more often but since you have more abilities to pay attention to in WoW it feels like it would be more complex to watch for defensive cds there than in GW2.

And then there's also things like downed states and only 5v5 conquest mode which are features that I do not like. There is a huge variety of the kind of PvP you can do in WoW and whilst it may not be balanced, the fact that I can rotate between these is very appealing.

Also the movement looks just as stiff and awkward as I remember it being from when I tried GW2 beta last year which is a huge turnoff for me. It may make sense in the context of this particular game but I still do not enjoy interacting with this system.

Personally, it is the gameplay at this point or at least my perception of it that is giving me doubts rather than anything like rankings, matchmaking etc.

I'm going to wait for another trial weekend since I remember there was one in April and give it a shot then.

For the time being I'm going to wait for WildStar which is meant to be launching with 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 arenas and consider giving SWTOR a shot since they announced they will be releasing 4v4 arenas in September.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#14 Rerroll

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

I looked at some gameplay videos to try and see if I could be persuaded to play and it just looks awful. The same handful of abilities are being spammed over and over again. It's very weird hearing the person doing the voiceover be so excited whilst saying things like "clusterbombing, stepping away, clusterbomb, shadow refuge, clusterbomb, running away etc. etc."

I think I must be getting the wrong end of the stick and there are parts of the metagame which I am not registering. What I will do is perhaps look at some tournament vods and hear shoutcasting from seasoned commentators to help with this.

Lopez, you gave an interesting example of the kind of micro strategy involved in GW2 with watching for how many rolls a character has done before coordinating an attack on him but really how is this different to watching for which defensive CDs have been used in WoW arena before you switch over? Perhaps it is different because rolls are on a lower CD in GW2 so the opportunity to exploit this comes up more often but since you have more abilities to pay attention to in WoW it feels like it would be more complex to watch for defensive cds there than in GW2.

And then there's also things like downed states and only 5v5 conquest mode which are features that I do not like. There is a huge variety of the kind of PvP you can do in WoW and whilst it may not be balanced, the fact that I can rotate between these is very appealing.

Also the movement looks just as stiff and awkward as I remember it being from when I tried GW2 beta last year which is a huge turnoff for me. It may make sense in the context of this particular game but I still do not enjoy interacting with this system.

Personally, it is the gameplay at this point or at least my perception of it that is giving me doubts rather than anything like rankings, matchmaking etc.

I'm going to wait for another trial weekend since I remember there was one in April and give it a shot then.

For the time being I'm going to wait for WildStar which is meant to be launching with 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 arenas and consider giving SWTOR a shot since they announced they will be releasing 4v4 arenas in September.


I've been in the top 25 of the leaderboards a few weeks and I think I know quite a bit about gw2 pvp. I'll share my thoughts.

Wow combat is deeper for sure. There are more CDs and skills to watch out, diminishing returns, different kind of dispells, interrupts, fakecasting..
In gw2 you also have all this, but it's not as important. I like to think this happens because the pvp scene is in a very young state. I like to compare it to wow's pvp: many tricks weren't discovered until arenas were released in tbc and people started taking pvp seriously.

Although in GW2 you can pretty much skillcap a profession after 1-3 months (deppending which profession you play) don't think you will be the best. You'll be just an average player at most. GW2 is more about:

-Team tactics: It's not like lol where everyone plays a jungler, carry, support, etc. In GW2 most set ups work if there is an intelligent tactic behind. Things like the opening and making a build that works in your comp are extremely important. When you think there's an existant meta and you can't play anything else, a team finds out a new strategy and changes everything.

- Positioning and moving between bases: Imagine it's a RBG with only 5 players and 3 nodes + secondary mechanics. If you make a bad decision and die your parners will be outnumbered and lose other capture points your team might have. If you go to X when you had to go to Y, your team will lose X. Teamplay and communication is a must.

-1v1ing: For the same reason there are many 1v1s. And you have to be very good at them. A lot of practice is required, since you'll have to learn how to dodge certain skills and combos as soon as you see your enemy animation. 2v2 also happen, and they are even better since they include rezz/stomp tactics. If you win a 1v1 or 2v2, your team is in a great advantage. For example, in the EU finals TP was about to lose the finals when teldo managed to pull off a 1v2 They are now qualified for the PAX invitational.

- Downed state. It's an awesome mechanic. It can be unfair in 1v1, and maybe 2v2. But in a large teamfight it's beautiful. There are lots of tactics to pull off a stomp or a last second rezz. If you watch the EU finals there were some close games where both teams managed to ressurrect allies over and over. A good middle point teamfight 4v4/5v5 can last up to 10 minutes.

- Teamfights. Interrupting rezzes, dodging aoe, taking the correct target, kiting, assisting and cleansing your mates, keeping certain class busy, keeping track of every enemy position to decap their point before they notice you are gone, making an obvious decap attempt to force an enemy to follow you and leave the fight, etc.

- Speed with your fingers: there are no global CDs in this game. If you are slow, there are some classes you shouldn't play

One good video with mesmer POV:


I really think it's a very interesting PvP, but the concepts are very different from wow arena. The main problem here is teamfights are quite hard to watch (there are too many things happening at the same time) and casters are not as good as they should be. In next patch (6th august) they announced a reduction of particle effects, which should help the viewers a lot. Oh, and they will also release soloq that day :)
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#15 ysnakewoo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:51 AM

As I previously said, do not be turned off by GW2 just by looking at it. Give it a shot.

People tend to compare everything to WoW (keep in mind, WoW rarely introduced anything new in their game and I've played MMORPGs from Ultima Online, DAoC, Everquest, AC, Guild Wars 1, WoW, Guild Wars 2, and probably a few more). The only thing WoW was ever original for was the achievement system. I am not sure if you played WoW back in the start days (when there were only US servers) and Polymorph and all other CC had no DR and lasted a minute, WoW lacked quests in many zones and the game was unplayable and boring (due to the fact that you can solo it out up to max level). WoW had a shitty start and it took them years to become what they are now, do not judge a game by comparing it to WoW, because then, GW2 was way better than WoW at start. Less bugs and more fun.

However, Guild Wars 2 combat system does not revolve around 2 abilities, that's just wrong. Play a Mesmer (I haven't played the game for 8+ months, but since our team was really dope good-not even exaggerating-I know how difficult the game is when you get into depths) and you will have to setup your clones, especially shatter build, you'll have to know what to use when and if you use a defensive ability offensively (such as stealth to get another clone out, or roll to get another clone out) you can be in downed state before you know it. It revolves around teamplay, dodging things and it has the grounds to become the new esports.

Personally, I still cannot forgive ANet for yoloing and not doing anything for PvP the first few months.

Teamwork in this game is not on the same level as WoW's.... it's fucking more important. If you are downed, your entire team will throw CCs and that Guardian will waddle over to pick your ass up, or whoever is closest, pop his "freedom" thingy so he cannot be knocked back, etc etc. Many of these things have probably changed, but that's how I remember the game.

Also, let me explain what does this "meta" mean. Since Lopez is using it quite often. This is best explained by League of Legends. In League of Legends, the current meta is solo top (bruiser/tank apc), solo mid (squishy apc/assassin/ad caster), solo jungle (help lanes in need and provide vision), bot (adc and support). Not sure about current GW2 meta, but I remember bunker builds (2 Guardians) or solo Elementalist or 4 Mesmer builds (when they say "builds" in GW2, that means team composition).

TL;DR try the game out. I doubt that it is an unaffordable commodity to you and try it out. PvE a bit, then start PvPing. I honestly fell in love with the game within first 5 levels.
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¯\_(⌣̯̀⌣́)_/¯

#16 Rerroll

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:18 AM

Not sure about current GW2 meta, but I remember bunker builds (2 Guardians) or solo Elementalist or 4 Mesmer builds (when they say "builds" in GW2, that means team composition).


Current meta is all about condition builds, so make sure you have a few cleanses in your builds
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#17 Neverever

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:46 PM

WoW had a shitty start and it took them years to become what they are now, do not judge a game by comparing it to WoW, because then, GW2 was way better than WoW at start. Less bugs and more fun.


See I asked this question on mmo champion specifically in regards to WildStar, since I'm hearing mixed messages about that game, and basically everyone said it was obvious that wow was amazing early in beta and just got better. But posting on mmo champion so :S

I honestly fell in love with the game within first 5 levels.


See this is the problem. I did, literally, play it for like the first few levels and I hated it during open beta last year. compared to wow, where I had the same reaction you did with gw2. And this included doing some instant max level conquest pvp wherever the zone is. But since it seems to be possibly about to catch on as an e-sport I'm willing to give it another go but I'm just going to wait after ESL.

May I also ask, why did you not play gw2 for 8+ months?
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#18 Rerroll

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

May I also ask, why did you not play gw2 for 8+ months?


The pvp scene has been "dead" since christmas.

But after they released custom arenas it's very healthy and constantly growing.
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#19 Bamflol

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

May I also ask, why did you not play gw2 for 8+ months?

I'm pretty sure everyone who "quit" since that time was because at the time, anet had not released a bunch of things that it has now. I.e custom arenas, rented servers for tournies, blahblahblah. Things that should have been in the game at launch, but weren't. Now that it's in the game, after the finish tweaking everything, their main job is to try and get everyone to try it out again. GW2 left a bad taste in people's mouths (imo), which is keeping them from logging back in to see what's new. My guess is that after PAX/ESL etc get over with, and if people advertise the fuck out of the stream, people will probably log back into the game and start trying the tourny scene again. However with that being said, they really need to find some sort of progression to add to the pvp game or no one will be able to stick to it, unless tournies start becoming a more frequent and regular thing where people always have the option to start building serious teams to compete with. Because other than tournies and cosmetics, there is nothing holding a player to play for long-term.
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#20 Footler

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:03 AM

As someone who will not return to WoW arenas due how bad they were last I played AND as someone who has played some GW2 PvP. Stay away from both. Playing the GW2 classes can be kind of fun but the PvP format is absolute garbage and I can't believe they felt that was the best direction. Good lord is GW2 PvP boring, questing is actually the funnest part of the game.

Now, I expect plenty of laughs but I gave this 'Smite' game a shot (3rd person MOBA) and while the individual skill level is exceptionally low it at least is fun and has a pretty high teamwork skillcap. I couldn't get into the traditional MOBA games but something about the 3rd person aspect makes Smite pretty fun for me. It also has more game modes to play beyond the traditional 3 lane MOBA setup such as a pseudo arena mode and a pseudo KOTH.
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