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no more 34sec tremor

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#41 Bullylol

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:33 AM

Not a great mentality "to wait till our patch" - having that up and down aspect to classes is not really fair to anyone.

Just getting into shaman this season on an alt, so was disappointed to see it (but my priest side is just lol'ing at it). I think its a fine change but at the wrong time. Not so much for the tremor, but that it hits a lot of other totem utility (as previously mentioned) without really getting anything in return.

However, individual strength is only part of the equation, shamans still offer the tools, and we know that sometimes changes dont pan out the way we percieve them - the tools we offer as a class still are there, and may be the "missing" part to a comp (well we know obviously there are certain synergies that previously exist). While some might opposed to the changes, its all part of a moving cog that could ultimately not be as big an issue.

Simplest way to find out is to get more people on the PTR I guess!

#42 Okayenhance

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:00 PM

Totemic Restoration has been replaced with a new talent, Totemic Persistence.
  • New talent: Totemic Persistence. Summoning a second totem of the same element no longer causes the first totem to be destroyed. Only one totem can benefit from this effect at a time.
  • Howl of Terror is no longer a talent and is now a baseline skill for all Warlocks.
  • Archimonde's Darkness gives the Warlock's Dark Soul spell two charges.
  • http://i.imgur.com/KAzQTvR.png


#43 Taoth

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

Totemic Restoration was OP before the change that made it give tremor 34 sec cd instead of 30. @ 30 it was too strong because it countered every priest fear, but at 34 it was just enough to make the 2nd priest fear viable.

The removal of this talent is a large problem not only because of the resurgence of Warlocks with their buffs in the patch (even now we can face top warlocks that literally just cast Fear 90% of the time.......) but because now Paladins are also getting a fear. After the 34 sec change, the only class that could have a legitimate complain about fear breaks were warriors, but their fear was undispellable against all non shaman teams so that is a solid tradeoff.


Now that said I personally don't have a giant problem with the removal of the talent, if we were given something useful in return. However the talent that they put in is 100% complete garbage and useless in all cases compared to the other 2 talents (which themselves are pretty bad). I don't think you could find a single other talent tree choice for any of the other classes that is worse than the shaman totem choice. Projection should be baseline because Capacitor is useless without it, and Call of the Elements is only really useful for Resto and their Healing Tide/Spirit Links.

If they put a replacement talent in along the lines of like "Makes your totems hover around the Shaman instead of being placed in the ground" I could maybe like it since it would help Searing not be a sack of dump as well as Capacitor, but on the whole that whole talent branch needs to be removed and reworked.

We don't want a shitty placeholder talent simply because blizzard can't think of anything good to apply to totems. Scrap the whole line and make something that is actually useful.

#44 Selicia

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostTaoth, on 27 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

even now we can face top warlocks that literally just cast Fear 90% of the time.......)
I don't see how this changes much. You can still tremor, ground, and shear, just not as often. On the PTR I've been running Call of the Elements, and while I think the CD on the ability is too long, it still allows you to grab a clutch tremor/grounding/healing stream.

View PostTaoth, on 27 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

now Paladins are also getting a fear.
Turn Evil is a 20 yard range. If it's an Hpal, they are risking so much to even try and get that off. Not to mention they are also losing the glyph that made Turn Evil instant cast (which was great to use on Warlock pets, Gargoyle, and Psyfiend). It can also properly be Tremor'd now (it was originally bugged).



View PostTaoth, on 27 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Call of the Elements is only really useful for Resto and their Healing Tide/Spirit Links.
Do you even know what you're talking about? Neither of those totems are affected by Call of the Elements... Also, it's actually a really good ability. The cooldown is a bit too long though.


Anyways, Played a LOT of Resto Shaman on the PTR over the past couple of days. Wanted to give some more insight:

> Heals feel reliable again.
> Call of the Elements has been my default go-to, though projection has its uses.
> Healing against Warlocks feels fine.
> Melee hurt, having a resil/defensive set for rushdown comps helps a lot.

Oh look, nothing out of the ordinary. Same Shaman stuff.

Edited by Selicia, 27 July 2013 - 01:38 AM.

Posted Image
       Just say no.

#45 Taoth

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:07 AM

View PostSelicia, on 27 July 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:



Do you even know what you're talking about? Neither of those totems are affected by Call of the Elements... Also, it's actually a really good ability. The cooldown is a bit too long though.



No, I don't know what i'm talking about regarding resto, I simply assumed that since those 2 spells were 3 min CDs that they were reset by Call since Blizzard's wording of "shorter than x" has always been "X and below" in the past, and not just "below x". However with neither being effected that only makes the talent even worse, only resetting tremor, cap, healing stream, earthbind, and windwalk (since stone bulwark is shit don't count that nonsense). For most specs the ability to reset those still makes it better than projection in most cases, but that still is like being happy between the choice of soupy dog shit and slightly firm dog shit.

Turn Evil is 20 yards, true, but Cyclone is 25 and druids can still get that off. It may not be always there for an initial CC but just like Repent, something that is chained into other CCs. Regardless, my point about Pallys getting a fear and Warlocks already casting Fear 90% of the time wasn't really spouting reasons for a shorter Tremor, but for citing that Blizzard doesn't see the rather insane proliferation of Fear as a problem, and are nerfing the talent because they think it is too weak. THAT is the issue, and not the talent nerf itself. As I said, I have zero problem losing the talent, my problem with the talent removal is that the whole tier is garbage and instead of them replacing Totemic Restoration with something viable and interesting, they put in some completely shit placeholder that is only majorly useful for having searing and fire ele out at the same time. Yes I know it helps in things like Stormlash/Grounding Grounding/Windwalk and Earthbind/Tremor, but those are exceptionally rare moments that overlapping can waste duration, and thus is garbage.

#46 Korzul

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:05 AM


Don't worry guys, blizz made it completely useless in pve too!

On a completely unrelated note:
From Darkness, Comes Light now procs off of any healing spell, not just Flash Heal, Binding Heal or Greater Heal.

Because penance giving a shield (that ignores and doesn't cause weakened soul) on the 1st tick with divine insight wasn't enough, it now gets a chance to proc free/instant flash heals too.

#47 Taoth

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:10 AM

LOL what a total joke. The only totem class it had optimal practical use for (even if that use was minimal for what a talent should give) is removed. Honestly I like that they did that because now hopefully the then gets iterated into being removed entirely and replaced with something when the forum backlash continues. They responded to the "this talent is now required for PvE" complaints, so I wonder if they'll listen to the "what reason do i have for this talent?" comments now too.

#48 Korzul

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:31 AM

So just to reiterate, we're pretty much screwed next patch unless they add some swap protection like... well totems whilst silenced. As well as giving healing stream some protection against getting stomped instantly like.. well exactly what totemic restoration did.
Not to mention earthshield dispels need to be at least treated like grace (each dispel should remove 3 stacks of ES).

And even then we'll still be miles behind druids and priests given the buffs they've recieved to DI,FDCL,movable (off the gcd) Mushrooms,ns baseline allowing cenarions ward (another usuable whilst silenced ability for druids), genesis etc...

On the plus side both druids and priests look fun to play!

All we need now is for the patch to hit and blizz to increase BF because said druids/priests find it too easy to keep people topped.

Edited by Korzul, 27 July 2013 - 05:31 AM.


#49 Udderly

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostTaoth, on 27 July 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

No, I don't know what i'm talking about regarding resto, I simply assumed that since those 2 spells were 3 min CDs that they were reset by Call since Blizzard's wording of "shorter than x" has always been "X and below" in the past, and not just "below x". However with neither being effected that only makes the talent even worse, only resetting tremor, cap, healing stream, earthbind, and windwalk (since stone bulwark is shit don't count that nonsense). For most specs the ability to reset those still makes it better than projection in most cases, but that still is like being happy between the choice of soupy dog shit and slightly firm dog shit.

Turn Evil is 20 yards, true, but Cyclone is 25 and druids can still get that off. It may not be always there for an initial CC but just like Repent, something that is chained into other CCs. Regardless, my point about Pallys getting a fear and Warlocks already casting Fear 90% of the time wasn't really spouting reasons for a shorter Tremor, but for citing that Blizzard doesn't see the rather insane proliferation of Fear as a problem, and are nerfing the talent because they think it is too weak. THAT is the issue, and not the talent nerf itself. As I said, I have zero problem losing the talent, my problem with the talent removal is that the whole tier is garbage and instead of them replacing Totemic Restoration with something viable and interesting, they put in some completely shit placeholder that is only majorly useful for having searing and fire ele out at the same time. Yes I know it helps in things like Stormlash/Grounding Grounding/Windwalk and Earthbind/Tremor, but those are exceptionally rare moments that overlapping can waste duration, and thus is garbage.

How can you possibly compare pallies and druids in regards to positioning?  If a druid comes out for a clone, he can blink away to get to safety and he's basically immune to poly/hex if he's not terrible, so there is FAR less risk coming out.  A druid also can have hots rolling if he does get cc'd, something that has always been an issue for pallies.  So that is a really terrible argument, saying that since Druids can comeout to cyclone then pallies will have np fearing.

#50 Koshimo

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:04 PM

I seriously cant even comprehend how blizzard managed to take the 2 strongest healing classes in pvp atm (druids and priests) and give them significant buffs and do absolutely nothing to compensate the other 3 healing classes. I thought the diversity you saw in healers was bad this patch, next season is going to be twice as worse.
xD

#51 Hippopotamus

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:03 AM

they should remove the talent because its op as hell, but return to when you can drop totems while blanket silenced...

#52 Reirei

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

well at least shamans won't mindlessly tremor every single fear now, try to play a priest vs shaman teams, you would want to just leave the match

i am not quite sure why they buff locks tho, so unnecessary
shut up pvp guy

#53 Dyllbar

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:44 AM

Instead of bringing in the new talent Totemic Persistence. They should of made a talent where you can cast totems while silenced imo, would of made the scrapping of Totemic Restoration much less of a nerf in pvp for Shamans. Especially Resto's.

#54 dj_abdullah

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

So it can be like spirit link, but for every totem? COOL (Maybe the talent could also let you use them while locked out)

#55 Avarencex

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:23 AM

Seems like it's blizzards agenda to make disc priests and resto druids even better.

#56 shunke

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:23 AM

can someone explain
what does shaman bring to table more than tremor and grounding over rdruid?

#57 Surel

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:53 AM

I actually fell from chair when i saw this, i might actually start playing again

edit: i just wish that they would make it more skillfull to use than just "press when feared" and insta get out, atleast the wotlk tremor was more skill and timing, this tremor totem is braindead and idiotproof. Or maybe not put you on fear DR when you tremor.

Edited by Surel, 10 August 2013 - 06:55 AM.


#58 Okayenhance

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostSurel, on 10 August 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I actually fell from chair when i saw this, i might actually start playing again

edit: i just wish that they would make it more skillfull to use than just "press when feared" and insta get out, atleast the wotlk tremor was more skill and timing, this tremor totem is braindead and idiotproof. Or maybe not put you on fear DR when you tremor.

Because fears aren't good enough already. Holy shit it's only the best cc in the game.

#59 Korzul

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:26 PM

Quote

this tremor totem is braindead and idiotproof.

It's about as braindead and idiotproof as landing AoE fears on a priest atm. Sprinting whilst invis or dropping a pet next to someone who's already cc'd from 25 yards away.
Dumb abilities have dumb counters i guess.

Edit: Just a shame they gutted our totem protection when they decided to kill it. Good job they didn't tie in a ton of our healing into healing stream eh... oh wait.

Edited by Korzul, 10 August 2013 - 11:29 PM.


#60 ysnakewoo

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:55 PM

View PostKorzul, on 10 August 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

It's about as braindead and idiotproof as landing AoE fears on a priest atm. Sprinting whilst invis or dropping a pet next to someone who's already cc'd from 25 yards away.
Dumb abilities have dumb counters i guess.

Edit: Just a shame they gutted our totem protection when they decided to kill it. Good job they didn't tie in a ton of our healing into healing stream eh... oh wait.

Us Priests remember Cataclysm.

On the side-note of bashing, get rid of that stupid talent and give Shamans ability to cast totems while silenced/locked out.

Also, remove their fucking pets from arena, there's too many of them to begin with.
I'm not useless, I can be used as a bad example.





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