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Holy: what is our biggest problem?

holy paladin wow

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#21 Djholyshockx

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:03 PM

View Postpyrellael_3428244, on 24 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

So lets split this up. Why do I want undispellable sac? .... and I never said I wanted DP(wall) while silenced

It's because whilst you eat that cc you had nothing that was healing your partner (eternal flame useless most of the time it wont outheal burst) like real hots, earth shield etc.< You said this right? quote is above. Well that helps with damage taken while you're cc'd?

Using sac before a cc happens is somewhat skillful compared to say reacting to something and tremoring or nimble brewing a fear and whatnot. Why the hell wouldn't I want it?

Holy prism breaking cc? Watch how you use it? Don't use it to single target heal by using it on your dps. Use it on what your dps are killing so it AoE heals for similiar amounts.

Something for your partners while cc'd, HENSE Undispellable sacrifice being something better than nothing.

and.... I think holy paladins are fine, i've been playing KFC at around 2500-2550 mmr this season, other healers just need to be nerfed, along with other damage classes.? (your words yet again)
You're saying Oh we're fine, everything else just needs to be nerfed? You're contradicting yourself.

Are you kidding me? Watch how you use holy prism, are you retarded. How can you watch how you use it? If youre in a situation where holy prism is going to save your partner, why should it break 8second cc or something. Which other class does that happen 2?

#22 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:03 PM

What about making some glyphs that aren't complete poo? Just a thought.

#23 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 24 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

What about making some glyphs that aren't complete poo? Just a thought.
5.4 has some valuable new glyphs

#24 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

if you're all complaining about HoTs i have a suprise for you! eternal flame is the worst talent next patch :)

#25 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:12 PM

View PostDjholyshockx, on 24 July 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Because 24 seconds immunity to cc is over the top, for any class imo
Remove it from clemency? reduce the cd? there are ways around it, also it's NOT immunity to all cc, just some like I previously stated

#26 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

View PostQuits, on 24 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

thats an idea i like.
as to avoiding fears, no that isnt the problem, being feared is. save your sprint for when they run at you. rofl. if paladins had an out to fear it'd be gg
also undispellable sac is a horrible idea, it'd be the same idea as unholy frenzy, which let me remind you, they modifed to not break cc
So I really don't like when anyone reads what they want to read, there are points in time where I can't just RUN from the priest. Also they run almost as fast if not faster than you when sprinting due to inner will+body and soul, and they're invisible

Once again, sac is not completely immune to cc, just breakable ones, Stuns, cyclone silences don't break when you have sac up like poly rep etc do

#27 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

View Postpyrellael_3428244, on 24 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Remove it from clemency? reduce the cd? there are ways around it, also it's NOT immunity to all cc, just some like I previously stated
thats just an awful idea. sac isnt a problem.
I think you lack too much knowledge of how to play the game to have any sort of idea what really is wrong with the class, because hand of sacrifice does NOT need to be undispellable. sry but ya

Edited by Quits, 24 July 2013 - 12:17 PM.


#28 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostDjholyshockx, on 24 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Watch how you use holy prism, are you retarded. How can you watch how you use it? If youre in a situation where holy prism is going to save your partner, why should it break 8second cc or something. Which other class does that happen 2?

And one moar timeeeeeee... Please stop reading only what you wish to read.

You do realize holy prism has two uses. If you use it for damage it aoe heals the target you damaged for about the same amount it would heal single target. So there are ways around it breaking CC, that is the LEAST of our concerns as a spec. >.>

#29 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostQuits, on 24 July 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

thats just an awful idea. sac isnt a problem.
I think you lack too much knowledge of how to play the game to have any sort of idea what really is wrong with the class, because hand of sacrifice does NOT need to be undispellable. sry but ya
So when you sac scatter and it gets dispelled before you're out of the scatter, and are forced to trinket or bubble to save your partner, when you should have been rewarded for outplaying your opponent is fine?

And don't throw insults, I'm not sitting here trashing anyone. I don't lack "knowledge" on how to play the game either lol. I've been playing hpala in 3s seriously at a high mmr since cata started.

and again, you say, It shouldn't but you aren't giving reasons why aside from the fact that it would be like unholy frenzy used to be? But you used to be able to stun silence cyclone etc non incap dr things and it would still keep you cc'd

Edited by pyrellael_3428244, 24 July 2013 - 12:25 PM.


#30 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

not only are the odds of scatter not breaking in the first 2 seconds low, but your partners should be trying to eat the trap to prevent you from using your cooldowns.
You clearly lack knowledge of this game if you're trying to tell someone who plays paladin at a higher rating than you what should be changed to make the class better.
Undispellable sac will never be added in this game, for the same exact reason they changed unholy frenzy. being able to cast a spell that prevents breakable cc on a target for 12s is illogical considering half the cc in this game breaks upon damage.

Ask zilea the #1 problem with paladins is. I guarantee he will say no out to fears, ask any top paladin. Some way of getting out of a fear is the only change our class really needs, not stupid ideas like undispellable sac or holy prism not breaking cc.

Edited by Quits, 24 July 2013 - 12:31 PM.


#31 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostQuits, on 24 July 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

not only are the odds of scatter not breaking in the first 2 seconds low, but your partners should be trying to eat the trap to prevent you from using your cooldowns.
You clearly lack knowledge of this game if you're trying to tell someone who plays paladin at a higher rating than you what should be changed to make the class better.
Undispellable sac will never be added in this game, for the same exact reason they changed unholy frenzy. being able to cast a spell that prevents breakable cc on a target for 12s is illogical considering half the cc in this game breaks upon damage.

Ask zilea the #1 problem with paladins is. I guarantee he will say no out to fears, ask any top paladin. Some way of getting out of a fear is the only change our class really needs, not stupid ideas like undispellable sac or holy prism not breaking cc.
Happens all the time.(see bold) My partners cannot always eat every trap

Get off your high horse please, I don't care if you're higher rated. Just because you're higher rated doesn't mean anyone lower than you doesn't know what they're talking about lol.

I'm simply giving an idea, also, specific disorients. Scatter, blind(s) and Incaps  Rep poly sap paralysis. Break from sac.

Every classified stun. Fear (doesn't break on damage worth shit). Cyclone. All blanket silences. Don't break from sac. So yeah you counter some cc (which is the issue of being able to avoid cc)

also, that holy prism thing, I wasn't talking about that. the other guy was and I facepalmed because that's not even something that is anything but player Error

Edited by pyrellael_3428244, 24 July 2013 - 12:38 PM.


#32 Champion_re

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostQuits, on 24 July 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

You clearly lack knowledge of this game if you're trying to tell someone who plays paladin at a higher rating than you what should be changed to make the class better.

You just went full elitist dude, never go full elitist.

Reading through arguments I do agree 100% dispellable sac is a bit to much. 50% sac dispell resistance though + a way to shorten fears would be a nice start to fixing paladins.

Also do note, if your sac isn't dispelled within 2 seconds while you are in fear, your partner is more likely to still be alive once you get out of the fear.

#33 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:40 PM

Why do you guys want HoTs? Aren't there already 4 classes that have them? Do you honestly want more homogenization? Fuck that.

I never liked Eternal Flame, it was a bullshit mechanic. Make beacon of light swapping good again, and give us a quick flash heal like before. Holy light is just so fucking bad it is unbelievable

#34 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:46 PM

I don't believe sac needs any change, if anything they could replace it with seal of blood.
i also believe the only thing paladins need is a fear reduction, like mirion had said previously.
as for Hots, eternal flame will be a terrible talent next patch, sacred shield is also very weak, best choice would probably be selfless healer, making us more dependent on instant heals. this would make the out to fear once again an important factor missing

#35 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostQuits, on 24 July 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:


You clearly lack knowledge of this game if you're trying to tell someone who plays paladin at a higher rating than you what should be changed to make the class better.


Bhaahahahaha. Got rank 1 as KFC, now getting Gladiator as Kittycleave.

Good one, almost had me.

#36 Quits

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 24 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Bhaahahahaha. Got rank 1 as KFC, now getting Gladiator as Kittycleave.

Good one, almost had me.
assumptions, i played feral shadow priest paladin to r1 and i see you nowhere. gg almost had me

#37 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

http://us.battle.net...tatistic#21:152

So you played a comp that was on par with KFC, you must be proud. Nice going with 12700 games played and a 61% winratio. Getting rank1 with 2613 rating in 3v3. ROFL.

Don't talk to someone that obviously has more experience than you. See what I did there? I just can't take arrogant pricks like you, when you yourself is complete dogshit. You played so many games and yet your first title comes in s12 when Paladins are completly out of control and you end up with a rating people have gotten duelist at.

Now back on topic and I hope you never bring forth that arguement that you know better because you have higher ratings, one look at your statistics tells me you've been a duelist the last 12 seasons. Since we opened the class forums up to members, there have been way more constructive threads than ever before.

Edited by Feliclandelo, 24 July 2013 - 12:55 PM.


#38 Accelerator

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

Pretty much you want to be completely immune to any hardships of a healer.
Swag Swag Swag

Woop

#39 Champion_re

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

Quote

Bhaahahahaha. Got rank 1 as KFC, now getting Gladiator as Kittycleave.

Good one, almost had me.

Insults do not contribute to this thread, you only embarass yourself. Please keep the discussion going instead :-).

Anyways... to get back on track: I think a 50% dispell resistance for sac and a way to shorten fears would be fair.

#40 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

View PostChampion_re, on 24 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Reading through arguments I do agree 100% dispellable sac is a bit to much. 50% sac dispell resistance though + a way to shorten fears would be a nice start to fixing paladins.
I don't exactly think or see it being too much with the way the game is. (undispellable sac)

Shamans, have tremor on a 34 second CD. grounding ~8 seconds. Wind Shear 12 seconds(ranged not melee). Ways out of or to avoid cc. Also can pre drop healing totems when about to be CC'd

Priests can, spectral guise(30seconds), fear ward(3mins) and shadow word death (10seconds) Not to mention ways to prevent damage when CC'd (PS/Sheilds)

Monks have nimble brew(2min cd) and can life cocoon while stunned (similar to ps)

Druids can shift, to avoid a lot of cc, displacer away from being cc'd, You can ironbark while silenced and not to mention full row of  hots to help someone live while you're cc'd.

Paladins can, (PROACTIVELY, not REactively) Sac(2x 2min cd). (breakable) CC. can aura mastery out of a silence(3min cd), and we can bubble,(5min cd) (which takes a global and can be dispelled so it's not even a guarunteed way to catch up)

So once again, with some tinkering with clemency and (maybe) the duration WHY IS THIS SO UNREALISTIC?

OMG HE PUT UP SAC, HANG ON WAIT 12 SECONDS TO SCATTER, DON'T POP YOUR ONE SHOT YET? it's not difficult to wait (sorry this doesn't fit the mongoloid play style)

Yes double sac is probably too strong with this idea but like I said, you can remove it from clemency and lower the CD to compensate, possibly reduce the duration a small amount.

but like I keep saying you are not immune to cc like this, (some not all)

Edited by pyrellael_3428244, 24 July 2013 - 01:02 PM.






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