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New Mage Mastery - 5.4


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#21 Atkinson

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:35 AM

Can you alter time this ? :3


Omg this....im betting your can then people are gonna cry till it gets nerfd like pom
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#22 Atkinson

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

Won't this change make it better to always have water ele on passive so you don't overlap your good icicle stacks?


Yes that will make it do more dmg but is it worth it to leave it on and get icles alot faster =/= we will see
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:47 AM

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#24 Ultraxz

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:50 AM

Omg this....im betting your can then people are gonna cry till it gets nerfd like pom


according to mmo-champ, that's reverted.
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#25 Neverever

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:52 AM

not even close in comparison


Too close for comfort.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#26 Neverever

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:06 AM

I wonder if casting frostbolt and then firing instant ffb proc at the last moment simultaneously will combine into one icicle's damage or still be split into two.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages


#27 Pritchard

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:26 AM

doesn't really seem too crazy to me, and doesn't really promote that much casting as you can just spec living bomb and get 5 FFB procs for max icicle damage, unless they do some serious frostbolt buffing.
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#28 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:31 AM

Inc glyph of Icy veins swifty videos

Edited by Sweatyfingrs, 18 July 2013 - 02:40 AM.

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#29 fant0m8

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:57 AM

Well, proc fishing is more and more promoted because of Frostfire bolt tbh.. Also, we now have ramp-up time instead of on-demand damage? I'm confused where they want to take mages into really..


Is that really that confusing? Every class should have ramp up time imo. That's one of the worst things about BM hunters, they don't have ramp up time. No one should be doing full damage first global and hopefully they will continue to move towards a game that has that vision
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#30 Spinmove

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:14 AM

As mentioned before, I don't think this promotes casting.

What is stopping me from using Living Bomb then just hiding until I receive enough FFB procs to get a 5 stack of Icicle damage, then unleashing all of my cooldowns into a deep? Especially with an Orb, and using Ice lance glyph. The whole other team would be dead.

Not to mention I'll have another DPS to assist me.

Seems kind of dumb to me.

Edited by Spinmove, 18 July 2013 - 05:15 AM.

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#31 phael

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:27 AM

Important things from Lhiv: (http://lhiveras-libr...ng-live-icicles)


Mechanics

You can store up to five Icicles. They are used in one of two ways:
  • When you cast Ice Lance, you will immediately begin to discharge your Icicles. They will launch at the target the Ice Lance hit, at the rate of one per second (adjusted by haste), until they are gone.
  • If you generate a new Icicle when you already have five, the oldest will immediately launch at the target hit by the spell that generated the new Icicle, and the new one will be stored.
Visuals
  • The Icicles hover around the head, kind of like Soul Shards.
  • They float in launch position, and when launched, they shoot out of their slots, looking much like little Ice Lances, with a similar travel speed.
Q&A

Q: Do the Icicles crit?
A: No.


Q: Are Icicles modified by damage-increasing effects or debuffs?
A: Only insofar as the spell that creates them is affected. If a debuff increases your Frostbolt's damage by 5%, it will create an Icicle that is 5% stronger. But the Icicle will not get an additional 5% increase directly from the debuff.


Q: Will Alter Time restore Icicles state?
A: Yes. You could have a full stack, Alter Time, cast Ice Lance so that your stack is expended, and the stack will be restored when Alter Time expires.


Q: Are Icicles dispellable?
A: No.


The big one:
Q: Are Icicles modified by damage-decreasing effects?
A: Yes. If your target is taking 50% less damage, it will also take 50% less damage from Icicles.

This is shaping up to be very very interesting for mages. Slightly bummed about double dipping vs resilience, but we'll see how it pans out.
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#32 p3ruh

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:52 AM

So how are we supposed to build this up when we get trained all day?
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#33 Numbtoes

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

I think this is a really cool change. It doesn't necessarily promote casting, but at least if gives some on demand burst. Although if they don't buff frostbolt's base damage then it seems that you would get bigger icicles from waiting for 5 FFB procs playing with living bomb or something.
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#34 Maticzor

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Does this mean that FFB and frostbolt dmg is nerfed by around 40% since they removed the old mastery?
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#35 Pritchard

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:53 AM

So how are we supposed to build this up when we get trained all day?



spec lb, wait for 5 FFB icicles, blow your swifty load with alter time into orb deep and collect points.
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#36 Crawthz

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:57 AM

Is that really that confusing? Every class should have ramp up time imo. That's one of the worst things about BM hunters, they don't have ramp up time. No one should be doing full damage first global and hopefully they will continue to move towards a game that has that vision


Yeah, massive class change mid-expansion. Frostmage having a ramp-up time and losing on-demand burst? This is almost expansion-level class change.. No class has been changed like this during the expansion, or am I completely wrong?

Does this mean that FFB and frostbolt dmg is nerfed by around 40% since they removed the old mastery?


Yes, old Mastery is completely gone, meaning we can't do even close the old numbers we used to; unless massive buffs to FFB, Lance and Frostbolt. This, however can be almost no issue if Icicle dmg% is really well scaled with Mastery.
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#37 Igor Čovran

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:20 AM

anyone tryed it on ptr can u post some screenshots?
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#38 Icekingx

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

I'm glad I woke up to this new change. Seems very interesting tbh I was about to re roll lock or sp after I saw what they did to frost mastery cause noway in hell I was gonna play fire or arcane. Can't wait for the MLD teams that just turtle all game get trinkets with the amazing CC MLD provides and then just unleash hell all over some poor SOB. Pretty much what Spinmove had said LB on 3 targets make babys will the pillar get 5 stacks up then go nuts.

Edited by Icekingx, 18 July 2013 - 12:17 PM.

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#39 Alexandrius

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

Ssoooo we basically get a short duration dot instead of big numbers on Icelance and ffb now? Ok looks really bad to me. We shall see. I take that back just seems extremely lame. A pve change I assume because mages raiding as frost were bored with the play style. "Not enough procs" I'm sure was their complaint. Anyways why can't we just have wotlk style frost with a few tweaks :(. But to be fair this is preferable to the frost burn nerf.

Edited by Swagimusprime, 18 July 2013 - 12:31 PM.

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#40 Neverever

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:47 PM

Yeah, massive class change mid-expansion. Frostmage having a ramp-up time and losing on-demand burst? This is almost expansion-level class change.. No class has been changed like this during the expansion, or am I completely wrong?


You are wrong. Ferals losing root shift in cata. Anyway it's irrelevant - if the change is for the better who cares whether it happens with or without precedent. This change is pioneering and hopefully they make more of these kinds of changes to improve the game mid expansion (whether it's a good change or not is the only thing that ought to be up for debate).

As mentioned before, I don't think this promotes casting.

What is stopping me from using Living Bomb then just hiding until I receive enough FFB procs to get a 5 stack of Icicle damage, then unleashing all of my cooldowns into a deep? Especially with an Orb, and using Ice lance glyph. The whole other team would be dead.

Not to mention I'll have another DPS to assist me.

Seems kind of dumb to me.


Hopefully they can avoid this by making icicles degrade over time if the total amount is not increased fast enough - i.e. like monk chi. So you can't just wait for procs whilst hiding because the procs wouldn't come fast enough to maintain icicle stacks which would just degrade over time. You should have to cast frostbolt to build up stacks - the procs should just be there to give you a bit of an RNG breather not become the primary or preferred way to build up stacks.

Anyways why can't we just have wotlk style frost with a few tweaks :(.


Would that work in MoP? Didn't it revolve around casting (albeit with ridiculous amounts of haste) which is kind of difficult atm? Do mages still have the skills to play like that as well?

Imo, gut mage damage (give it ramp up like tigereye brew w/e) and increase mage kiting. Reintroduce cone of cold root and either reduce frostbolt cast time or give mages some kind of r1 frostbolt, or anything else to let them kite again. They have enough control they just can't kite that well anymore which is sad. Vurtne seems like a long, long time ago now.

Even with these icicle changes they should reduce the cast time of frostbolt to around 1 second and balance damage accordingly - make it a good way of putting out consistent damage to build up burst through icicles. You could abuse people's positioning so hard with r1 frostbolt it was beautiful to watch. People underestimate how powerful and multifunctional snares/roots are.
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id love to be playing the same game as you where hunters and ferals are the biggest counters to mages





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