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Assassination in 5.4


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#41 Stealthsultn

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:23 AM

View PostMalladon, on 31 July 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Misconception a lot of people have about Shiv, it does not apply the non-lethal poison, it applies the "shiv effect" version of the non-lethal poison. For instance, shiv @5stacks paralytic doesn't proc a stun, just the root, it actually has no effect on your 5 stack paralytic (to even refresh it) or to proc crippling poison, because this is from the passive regular nonlethal poison proc.

Also, I would say outside of having shadow blades up, I think I RARELY use a full 5 CP finisher as mutilate. 3-4 is most common tbh, 5 more common with kidney shots, but a 3-4 point rupture/envenom is plenty of damage & time to get at least one mutilate in with poison proc buff. Using mutilate at 3-4 CP's feels like it's almost a waste because I could be wasting one or two CP's.

Oh, I know shiv does't apply the poison it applies an alternate version of it. I was just stating that they totally changed it.

I think the 3-4 combo point dump is part of the problem in my opinion; most of your damage as mutilate is passive so kidney is the only reason to have 5 combos and rupture and envenom exist as "fillers" as in the fill out your rotation. Hell, envenom used to help you stack deadly up but now its just a moot finisher that crits for 60k if you lucky. Most of the damage is based off Venomous wounds and deadly.

Poison system could use more cowbell

#42 Silhin

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:58 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 30 July 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Your positioning is bad if more than 1 person on your team can be killed at the same time with the same burst cooldowns.
;
Holy shit you're dumb .Now your trying to take something out of context to prove what that you're still a idiot ?

Ill Entertain you're stupidity
So you're telling me there no disengage or blink or shadow step or charge or grip and fly serpent kick or teleport or gate way or priest sprints/grips in this game right? That's what you're telling me ?

#43 fant0m8

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostSilhin, on 31 July 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

;
Holy shit you're dumb .Now your trying to take something out of context to prove what that you're still a idiot ?

Ill Entertain you're stupidity
So you're telling me there no disengage or blink or shadow step or charge or grip and fly serpent kick or teleport or gate way or priest sprints/grips in this game right? That's what you're telling me ?

The vast majority of the time it's just not feasible. The other target either isn't squishy, has evasive cooldowns of their own, the healer gets out of CC, or you get peeled. If they're defensively positioned then it's even easier to stop the burst.

If a team needs to use multiple major defensive cooldowns in the same enemy burst window, they fucked up. Usually positioning.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#44 Valzent

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

I see most people agree that Assassination is better suited to multi-doting or pressure comps.
I am not a Lock expert, but from reading their forum, seems Afflictions is getting some serious nerfs.

Do you guys think RLS or RLD will be strong for Assa Rogues with Affli Locks? Or would it be better with Sub Rogue + Demo / Destro Lock?

#45 AcerMVP

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostValzent, on 31 July 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I see most people agree that Assassination is better suited to multi-doting or pressure comps.
I am not a Lock expert, but from reading their forum, seems Afflictions is getting some serious nerfs.

Do you guys think RLS or RLD will be strong for Assa Rogues with Affli Locks? Or would it be better with Sub Rogue + Demo / Destro Lock?

RLS and RLD will still be strong due to the multi-dotting pressure, the thing about playing a multi-dotting pressure comp is that you have to build the pressure and wear out the teams.

#46 streets

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

With how bursty this game has become - no one has the patience to multi-dot and have a 5-7 min game.

#47 Malladon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostStealthsultn, on 31 July 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Oh, I know shiv does't apply the poison it applies an alternate version of it. I was just stating that they totally changed it.

I think the 3-4 combo point dump is part of the problem in my opinion; most of your damage as mutilate is passive so kidney is the only reason to have 5 combos and rupture and envenom exist as "fillers" as in the fill out your rotation. Hell, envenom used to help you stack deadly up but now its just a moot finisher that crits for 60k if you lucky. Most of the damage is based off Venomous wounds and deadly.

Poison system could use more cowbell

Big dps from assassination isn't because envenom crits for 60k, it's because after you envenom (if you had energy pooled), you can get off two mutilates & probably get one dispatch proc off before the poison buff fades-- 5 attacks that hit decently hard to begin with that almost DEFINITELY got an extra 10-20k damage each from a poison proc, not counting white hits. Because of the poisons, if you pool your energy correctly the damage your globals do afterwards is basically buffed by 50%, yay rounding, but still, this is where that silly pressure from mutilate comes from.

Having rupture up beforehand only makes it easier to have the energy to get all those globals out during the buff (not to mention as you said, the damage)--- neither of those finishers are fillers by any means. I would contend that Rupture as sub feels much more like a "filler" ability, that adds a pure static damage buff, whereas envenom is something you have to take advantage of.

#48 Mattadoro

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:41 PM

i get 104k envenom crits.. with 74% mastery but i do have double proc and engi.. idk what this whole 60k thing is about
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#49 Malladon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

With everything up and proc'd yes, but one of the best things about assassination is that you can still do great damage when everything isn't up--- when everything is up if you're allowed to be on your target (disc is the best example imo) you can force PS Trinket & Swap all together just because it's THAT much damage.

#50 Mattadoro

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:59 PM

my favorite target as mutilate has to be mages as cloak and dagger, i play rmp so the mass dispel helps. But they think they are gods vs rogues and then by the time they find out what mutilate does its too late
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#51 taxigirl1

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:31 AM

honestly mut and sub are neck and neck right now most rogues just haven't played much mut yet, convinced mut is stronger atm but idk o.o.

#52 meshu

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

View Posttaxigirl1, on 06 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

honestly mut and sub are neck and neck right now most rogues just haven't played much mut yet, convinced mut is stronger atm but idk o.o.
don't be delusional, mut IS worse and is the most boring spec to play overall.

View PostAcerMVP, on 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

You're a RBG hero, you have no say in Arenas. You only say this because you can kill some one with one button in RBG's and not be killed, sorry buddy, but RBGS =/= Arenas.
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#53 Reirei

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:47 AM

vendetta as self buff would be too brainless (like the spec isn't already like that heh)

maybe they should change glyph of redirect and make redirect act like soul swap, all your debuffs and shit go to swaped target when you use redirect, it would be still on 1 min CD and take glyph slot as well...

as for MS debuff for mut, you kidding, right? many might not realize but this xpac mut got actually buffed by a lot just alone for having prep now and being able to get shs, why would you buff brainless spec any more?

P.S. sub on other hand just kept getting nerfed compared to other specs
shut up pvp guy

#54 AcerMVP

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

View Postmeshu, on 06 August 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

don't be delusional, mut IS worse and is the most boring spec to play overall.

You're a RBG hero, you have no say in Arenas. You only say this because you can kill some one with one button in RBG's and not be killed, sorry buddy, but RBGS =/= Arenas.

View PostReirei, on 06 August 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

vendetta as self buff would be too brainless (like the spec isn't already like that heh)

maybe they should change glyph of redirect and make redirect act like soul swap, all your debuffs and shit go to swaped target when you use redirect, it would be still on 1 min CD and take glyph slot as well...

as for MS debuff for mut, you kidding, right? many might not realize but this xpac mut got actually buffed by a lot just alone for having prep now and being able to get shs, why would you buff brainless spec any more?

P.S. sub on other hand just kept getting nerfed compared to other specs

The only people that call mut brainless are the people that can't seem to play it correctly. If it was so brainless why haven't you broken 2200 this season with Mut? It's actually a lot harder than people make it seem to be. I keep hearing that as mut, all you do is stick to one target, that's so completely wrong. As assassination you are constantly are switching. Assassination is a dot class now, you need to be able to keep up your bleeds on two targets, be able to focus on doing main damage to one target, while having to CC the third. A lot harder than Sub.

Subs damage is so easily avoidable, this is why they haven't changed Vendetta and most likely won't either. You can easily negate shadowdance damage, why shouldn't you be able to negate vendetta?  There's no reason for putting vendetta on a redirect or something after giving it much thought. That will make the game even more brainless. MS on Mutilate? For what? So we can be another warrior?

I keep seeing kids asking for ShS to break snares and give MS on Mut or Backstab. If that's what you kids want, go play a fucking warrior.

Edited by AcerMVP, 06 August 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#55 Chaoszx

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:41 PM

I haven't played the PTR, but if Assassination gets any buffs at all it will be viable in arena in 5.4 because it's pretty decent right now even when rogues feel they are extremely weak(Which they kind of are in comparison to other classes).

#56 Stealthsultn

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:02 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I keep seeing kids asking for ShS to break snares and give MS on Mut or Backstab. If that's what you kids want, go play a fucking warrior.

This: I think we can all agree that baking things in makes the game more boring. Choices, we want more of them.

My only problem with mutilate is the spec's relative simplicity.




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