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#41 Loob

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:03 PM

mages ok.

Edited by Loob, 15 July 2013 - 08:15 PM.


#42 Denmagiska

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:45 PM

View PostNeverever, on 15 July 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Your over-exaggerations and bias are sweet and they clearly show you have passion for your class, but ultimately they are unwarranted and misplaced.

I also find it quite interesting and also somewhat amusing that you chose to single me out for an ad hominem attack apparently because, on this account of mine at least, you can't see any helmets, when further up the thread people have been echoing what I said. You should try substituting logic and reasoning for character assassination as it may help you in the long run.

I guess I should have elaborated. It seems you think I feel that mages shouldn't be compensated for this change because it affects mage damage and you supposedly think that mage damage is easy to stop by competent players. You described a scenario where mage damage can be stopped by teammates. Well, you may be a hero mage capable of 1v3ing but last time I checked in 3v3 both sides zone in with their partners and the mage ALSO has teammates to make sure their damage goes off.

The problem with this situation and mage mastery is that no one should have access to legitimate kill opportunities every 30 seconds. The synergy between DF and mastery is too much. People on this forum were advocating for making the mage mastery affect all spells except for deep freeze but they didn't decide on this. They were also going to increase the cd of deep freeze to 45 secs at one point, but also didn't do this. I, and I guess many others, are just happy that they are finally doing something.

But, the reason I think it's o.k. to "gut mage mastery" isn't just because of this. The wider mage toolkit includes such retard proof gems as spammable polymorph in a game with 8 sec dispels and 4 second blanket silence on a 24 sec cd that makes me think you guys will be just fine after 5.4 even if this change goes through. I know you have probably become used to being the star of your own show as a mage and that you might not like becoming a cc bot with consistent damage, but I have to say you will be a damn fine cc bot come 5.4.

It is unfortunate that the strongest classes at the moment (hunters, ferals, eles to a lesser extent) counter mages and perhaps that is the reason why you think mages are not that great. However, this still does not justify the current mage mastery which was flawed from the moment it was implemented in Cata.

As a lot of people have realised, once hunters and ferals are nerfed on ptr, as is the case, the wizards will dominate and mages are going to be a focal point of this impending doom. Hopefully with this mastery change we can stop some of that before it happens.

I hope you have a lovely day. :)


... Or the problem actually is that mages are pretty bad on PTR due to their damage being nonexistant outside of RNG proccs of FoF and Brain Freeze.

This mastery change doesn't change much about Mages burst. They will still cast Frozen Orb and spam Ice Lance + Frostfire Bolt until the target dies.

Meanwhile though Mages will run around like headless chickens trying to get Polymorphs of while being trained beyond insanity while dealing petty damage from Living Bomb and the Water Elemental.

But yeah, I guess you're right, since Mages have Polymorph and Counter spell they don't desserve to do 30% of the damage a melee class is capable of doing.
Mages should be balanced around doing all of their damage during Frozen Orb and if they don't get a kill they must use their utility to survive until Frozen Orb is ready again.

Good game design...

Or maybe, just buff casts and nerf proccs making freecasting Mages/those who can play terrifying and bad ones the one you face at 1200 rating.

#43 Celaurthor

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:18 PM

View PostDenmagiska, on 16 July 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

... Or the problem actually is that mages are pretty bad on PTR due to their damage being nonexistant outside of RNG proccs of FoF and Brain Freeze.

This mastery change doesn't change much about Mages burst. They will still cast Frozen Orb and spam Ice Lance + Frostfire Bolt until the target dies.

Meanwhile though Mages will run around like headless chickens trying to get Polymorphs of while being trained beyond insanity while dealing petty damage from Living Bomb and the Water Elemental.

But yeah, I guess you're right, since Mages have Polymorph and Counter spell they don't desserve to do 30% of the damage a melee class is capable of doing.
Mages should be balanced around doing all of their damage during Frozen Orb and if they don't get a kill they must use their utility to survive until Frozen Orb is ready again.

Good game design...

Or maybe, just buff casts and nerf proccs making freecasting Mages/those who can play terrifying and bad ones the one you face at 1200 rating.
Thats how the game should be.... if you have excessive amounts of cc you shouldn't be top damage also. Especially with 8 second dispel.

#44 phael

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:47 PM

View PostHogardude, on 15 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

www.wowhead.com/item=6256

New weapon for mages?

lol'd so fucking hard XD

View PostDenmagiska, on 16 July 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

This mastery change doesn't change much about Mages burst. They will still cast Frozen Orb and spam Ice Lance + Frostfire Bolt until the target dies.

This. Also, I find it quite hilarious that my lances do almost 40k more into Deep as Arcane then as Frost on a test dummy lol. The damage spread on players is a lot smaller, but it's still retarded.

56% Mastery, 12.5% Haste, no procs, Pure s14 gear vs Player:

ARCANE: 45k
FROST: 30k
FOF: 60k

Arcane Swifty: 75k
Frost Swifty: 95k highest I've seen without pve gear (Jade+Engi+Orc+IW+Trinket on FoF)

#45 Denmagiska

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostCelaurthor, on 16 July 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Thats how the game should be.... if you have excessive amounts of cc you shouldn't be top damage also. Especially with 8 second dispel.

Excessive amounts of CC? Depends how you play your game. If you keep the mage in check the amount of CC from the mage is underwhelming.

But yeah, maybe you are right. Mages should be CC bots for Elemental Shamans and fish for proccs without being any real threat outside of Frozen Orb. Where they as always, will solo you in a deep.

#46 Jah2828

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostDeadscumlord, on 15 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Man i was POM Flamestrinking b4 it was cool.

Just so everyone is clear, this is NOT Abn. Have a nice day.

http://i.imgur.com/5MpFTKI.jpg
If nlggaz hate then let them hate and watch the rating pile up.

#47 Marshmellow

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostJahmilli1, on 17 July 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Just so everyone is clear, this is NOT Abn. Have a nice day.

http://i.imgur.com/5MpFTKI.jpg

I think we discovered this as soon as that retard typed his first sentence on the forums
Posted Image

#48 Swolfz

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:11 PM

Quote

Mastery: Frostburn Fingers of Frost now increases the damage of Ice Lance by an additional 16%, and Brain Freeze increases the damage of the instant Frostfire Bolt by 16%. Increases the damage done by your Water Elemental by 16%. Mage - Frost Spec. When you damage enemies with Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and your Water Elemental's Waterbolt, 12% of the damage done is stored as an Icicle with you, for 15 sec. Up to 5 Icicles can be stored at once. Casting Ice Lance causes any Icicles to begin launching at the target. Mage - Frost Spec.

Uhhh.. What?

#49 Friedkitteh

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:13 PM

The new change to mastery can actually be so rape :3 :mage: :mage: :mage:

#50 Moshe

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostSwolfz, on 17 July 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Uhhh.. What?

Oh look! more burst dmg for frost mages, thats precisely what they needed ^^

They remembered to nerf frostbolt a bit too and buff icelance. Business as usual.

#51 obvollie

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:22 PM

lmfao at all the alt. classes saying "it's about time." "you have to try, wow!" etc.
literally implying mages walk into an arena without any coordination and 1-0 something.
If youre dumb enough to get 1-0d by single-handedly by a mage youre shit

No, that's hunters & DKs.
From my personal experience, DKs have higher burst consistency than mages and almost 100% up time :s

#52 amirdaheat

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:32 PM

  • Mastery: Frostburn Fingers of Frost now increases the damage of Ice Lance by an additional 16%, and Brain Freeze increases the damage of the instant Frostfire Bolt by 16%. Increases the damage done by your Water Elemental by 16%. Mage - Frost Spec. When you damage enemies with Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and your Water Elemental's Waterbolt, 12% of the damage done is stored as an Icicle with you, for 15 sec. Up to 5 Icicles can be stored at once. Casting Ice Lance causes any Icicles to begin launching at the target. Mage - Frost Spec.


motherfucking icicles bitch
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#53 fant0m8

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:47 AM

View PostMoshe, on 17 July 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Oh look! more burst dmg for frost mages, thats precisely what they needed ^^

They remembered to nerf frostbolt a bit too and buff icelance. Business as usual.

The mastery damage is generated by casting frostbolt (among other things), not ice lance, and multiple ice lances cast in a row will not all benefit from the mastery, only the first.

This is a huge nerf to ice lance spam and will buff traditional shatter combos and mage play. FFB procs and water ele damage will give some extra damage even when not casting, but the bulk of it will come from frostbolt.

I do worry a bit about the "only 5 icicles can be stored at a time." What happens if you let your water ele attack 5 times, are you unable to build up better icicles until you cast ice lance? That could lead to people needing to put the ele on passive until icicles are build up.

---

I agree though that buffing the scaling of ice lance and removing frostbolt from its own debuff seems counterproductive. Let's wait and see how the numbers shape up though.

Edited by fant0m8, 18 July 2013 - 12:50 AM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.




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