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#41 Frostwor

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

View PostVengeful95, on 09 July 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

You have appearently never played a mutilate human rogue with engineering this patch have yeh? I've critted 90k'ish with envenom, and even more than that. Cold Blood would definitly bring back some flavour into the assasination spec tbf.


#42 Vengeful95

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostFrostwor, on 09 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

so just reroll then
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#43 baltothedog

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

revert evicerate or find weakness nerf and we could have a viable top tier class

#44 Spyrö

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

Sang Vein on hemo should be baseline, not glyph.

#45 Vengeful95

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostSpyrö, on 09 July 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Sang Vein on hemo should be baseline, not glyph.


It's either a glyph or nothing, you decide :)
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#46

Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:29 PM

Can anyone confirm that the new glyphs (hemo vein, recovery, redirect, etc) are actually on the PTR?  I didn't see anything about them in the PTR patch notes, only saw them in the data mined info from wowhead.com

#47 baltothedog

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostChubbsmalone, on 09 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Can anyone confirm that the new glyphs (hemo vein, recovery, redirect, etc) are actually on the PTR?  I didn't see anything about them in the PTR patch notes, only saw them in the data mined info from wowhead.com

Not all the content listed may be available for testing or may only be available during a limited testing window during the 5.4 PTR. Keep an eye on the PTR Discussion forum for further details.

#48 Bigpapapump

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

Lol I like how everyone is so excited for a talent that is 5 seconds worse than the feral version or a talent that essentially gives the same thing ferals have baseline for no energy cost (Minus speed burst, but gain root removal).. Idk unless they redesign roots/snares etc I see a marginal change at best. Sub is going to do maybe 1% more sustained damage and deal around 5% less burst, + having to glyph for shit that would be baseline. I'm glad they realize rogues aren't fine but c'mon man at least try the shs 2 charge idea or a sub 20s cd as talent tiers on PTR.

Edit -- Since we're still on PTR what I'd like to see is a revert of find weakness debuff and hemo being baseline on sang, and maybe a better crit/damage modifier so an un proc'd icelance on an unfrozen target doesn't automatically hit harder than backstab/hemo..I'll wait until I try some 3s to comment further on the mobility changes but for the time being I am not sold on em.

Edited by Bigpapapump, 09 July 2013 - 03:58 PM.


#49 Ayume

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

Love these changes, this plus the addition of other classes being nerfed should easily put us on the map again. The only other thing we could ask for is a 30% crit puncturing wounds glyph/change.

Another thing to note is how these changes are going to interact with the 2 pc pve gear bonus. Giving up 30 max energy and 1500 pvp power for 15 energy proc off hat is quite an easy trade if backstab/hemo are actually good damage.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm quite excited for these changes.

Edit: typo

Edited by Ayume, 09 July 2013 - 05:57 PM.

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#50 AcerMVP

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostAyume, on 09 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Love these changes, this plus the addition of other classes being nerfed should easily put us on the map again. The only other thing we could ask for is a 30% crit puncturing wounds glyph/change.

Another thing to note is how these changes are going to interact with the 2 pc pve gear bonus. Giving up 30 max energy and 1500 pvp power for 15 energy proc off hat is quite an easy trade if backstab/hemo are actually good damage.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm quite excited for these changes.

Edit: typo

Double rogues two's next season k?

#51 watduck

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postmirox, on 09 July 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

The funniest thing is that these two new glyphs used to be passive abilities , but now for some reason, they have to be glyphs...

And cheatdeath change is just laughable, what other class has unreliable cheatdeath-like mechanic? They should either make it heal you back to 10% then proc the buff, or make the buff 99% dmg reduction , otherwise its unreliable garbage.

If you all remember they tried that same garbage with disc priests moves going from cata to mop. They took away passive things and turned them into glyphs. It didn't work for disc so why would it work for  rogues...

Notice they're slowly giving us back everything we lost from cata. Prep, recuperate healing, not having to rupture, trying to make cheat death work again, combo point builder damage. Rogue actually plays the same as in cata only worse in every way lol.

Also shouldn't sinister strike be buffed?

#52 Deniar

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:13 PM

to the people talking about bringing cold blood back, what do you think of replacing marked for death for Cold Blood in that talent row. That way its on demand garunteed burst, instead of either double critting and potentially one shotting or no crits and doing "ehhh" damage.

#53 watduck

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

That tier is about combo points. Cold blood won't fit

#54 Vengeful95

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostDeniar, on 09 July 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

to the people talking about bringing cold blood back, what do you think of replacing marked for death for Cold Blood in that talent row. That way its on demand garunteed burst, instead of either double critting and potentially one shotting or no crits and doing "ehhh" damage.

How about Step baselined, step replaced by Hit n Run? I had amazing fun with it! lol
Cold blood Baselined, remove last tier and replace it with improvements to Step, seems like less 1shotting and more mobility (as in what we need compared to how shit it actually is)

like double step, 5 seconds reduced step(wich would be 15 seconds)  , step remove roots or remove stuns but no longer leaves you behind the target now it increases your dodge chance by 100% and makesyou immune to all spells for 3 seconds or something lol idk another trinket/cloak ability could be fan! :3 (not sure if trolling or....)

Edited by Vengeful95, 09 July 2013 - 07:36 PM.

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#55 Reirei

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:12 PM

shs on 20 sec (yay), better than 24 sec for sure

shifting dmg from evis to hemo/backstab would be really nice but i don't think thise numbers would be enough, i am personally not big fan of retarded evis dmg and piss poor dmg on sustain spells

CnD will be still very situational, shs will be probably picked for most matches

15 energy BoS sounds silly but doesn't break roots, would probably use it for RBGs

cheat death will be still worthless, somehow they don't understand that it does't always go off and even if it goes off you die to dots that tick for full dmg anyway + it brings you to 10% HP,  any class with execute (sup monks) says hi; the other options are still 100 times better than broken half working talent; i wish it would work like pally or dk cheat death tbh but probably won't happen

glad they are actually trying to fix things a bit
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#56 Madii

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:58 PM

The new two piece set-bonus will not be an 'easy trade' as Ayume said, cause the proc only decreases the energy cost for our next combo point generation ability by 2.

Sources:
ptr.wowhead.com
elitistjerks.com/f78/t132793-5_4_changes_discussion

Btw i love too see these changes.

#57 Ayume

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 09 July 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Double rogues two's next season k?

Deal. Double rogue is looking like it will be viable next patch.

View PostMadii, on 09 July 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

The new two piece set-bonus will not be an 'easy trade' as Ayume said, cause the proc only decreases the energy cost for our next combo point generation ability by 2.

Sources:
ptr.wowhead.com
elitistjerks.com/f78/t132793-5_4_changes_discussion

Btw i love too see these changes.

Good catch, I probably should have cross checked my source via EJ. Definitely not worth using at 2 energy per HAT tick.
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#58 inf1

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:05 AM

Its actually
  • Eviscerate had base damage decreased by 10% and AP scaling increased by 13%.


#59 Frostwor

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

View Postinf1, on 10 July 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Its actually
  • Eviscerate had base damage decreased by 10% and AP scaling increased by 13%.

So this is more of a Sub nerf then because the ap scaling should fix it for Combat and Assa uses Envenom, question is if it will go down, since Envenom is a moded Eviscerate?


Hmm just got on my mind: Since the new pvp trinket bonus which will give 10%more dmg reduction, this buff will only compensate it, meaning rogue will have again very bad damage, and even worse burst which was the only thing that made us strong so far in MoP.

#60 WildeHilde

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

Actually AP scaling should benefit sub pretty much the same as combat. I de-emphasizes mastery as best stat and makes agility better in comparision. Some math should follow soon but on a first look it does not seem to be a nerf during burst but rather a nerf for sustained damage (constant mastery, changing AP).

Glyph choices add a lot of depth, the choices are incredibly though and I will probably change glyphs constantly based on the enemy comp. Rogues can be very tanky with PvP trinket set bonus, glyph of Feint, Glyph of Quick Recovery and possibly some resilience gems, they can also go ham with PvE trinkets and CC + Hemo Glyph or go into peeling mode. Love these options.

Glyph of Redirect looks like it will make AcerMVP very happy.




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