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Whats the point of melee anymore?

melee suck

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#21 Hackattack3

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostVadren, on 08 July 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Pretty much after TBC melee have only been good when they can do unhealable damage with few counters. It's not really the most exciting play style. Niches like interrupts with a better lockout ratio (kick's 5s lockout/10s cd vs. 6s lockout 24s cd for CS), healing debuff, and no mana have gradually been removed over time.

Maybe it's time to introduce casts to melee classes to give their burst more depth and counter so they can be buffed in other ways?

Best idea in thread and most honest evaluation of melee limitations.

#22 Aldrainíl

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:12 PM

the point of melee is to play with hunter

#23 Numbtoes

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:20 PM

Caster cleaves are a lot more forgiving to play right now than melee cleaves/melee caster comps. You can draw out a match forever because of the dispel change. Mages and warlocks can really abuse the cd and keep at least one person in a poly for 8 seconds. Caster teams, espcially ones with more than one healer, are a lot more unforgiving to play against as well. Chances are if they manage to get on fear on you, it is going to be followed with a clone or poly. I think the dispel cd is what really cause people to stop playing with melee.

#24 Pinka

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

Melee should outdps a ranged in actual melee range. Otherwise what is the point on bringing a melee if a wizard brings more dmg and control to the table?

Casters do not realise that being ranged is one of the best utility to begin with.

Melee weakness is that they do their fullest of damage in those 5y range. No scumbag spam root removal stuff like ferals or rets have now.
Ranged weakness should be that they are less resilient. No silly outdpssing a melee on them with mongo instant procs.


Extreme cases of these atm are elem shamans and destro locks are quite guilty to it aswell. You pop swifty and before you notice you kill yourself because you feed him instant procs.

A case from a caster pov. Ferals and Rets. Snare jk gone. Root jk gone. Root jk gone again. Poly. Oh nvm feral. Cases like that make melee basicly unkitable and so their weakness is basicly eliminated.


So from both cases. Casters are more op on the long run since there are only two melee maybe dk too due to them having a trinket for every kind of cc.

///
Quick reply on the poster above me. Melee cleave vs caster. How many melee cleaves do you see out there. If you ask a healer to play a melee cleave they all answer. CBA.

Why? Because melee cleaves usually rely on this run in, chain cc and blow someone up. If they fail they die. Casters however mostly have spammable cc. If a cc fails they can always try to recast it.

So basicly caster cleaves are more favored due to their control. Landing a 8 sec cc is just as easy as popping a swifty and avoid getting peeled by some crappy instant bs.

Edited by Pinka, 08 July 2013 - 08:40 PM.

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#25 Cobeliany

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

Kill the wizards before your out of burst CDs/trinkets/defensive cause ur instant dead after you lose pressure and have no trinket

Edited by Cobeliany, 08 July 2013 - 09:29 PM.


#26 Itsnel

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:35 PM

balance is shit, nice newsflash

#27 Nisslol

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postohnoes, on 08 July 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

(...) Can't stand mana not being an issue, whats the point of it being there if its a non-issue? The game was more fun/exciting when it was an issue (yes I'm played a mage in bc and know about mana issues hello mana drain.) It provided an additional strategy in games where a certain comp was not up to par of another, but that option of always ooming the dps or the healer was there.

You am played a mage?

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
420

View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#28 frigidclam

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:52 AM

Melee has been pointless for a while. Top/pro players will always play casters they can do so much and are much more forgiving to play. You mess up a CC as a melee you get punished and have to wait 20+ seconds to try again. Casters with their spam CC and much longer duration CC  has gotten out of control. Once hunters are nerfed next patch melee wont exist in areans(melee/hunter dont exist on AT no PVE trinkets) outside of rogues/ferals who are the only two classes who work with casters but with the state of locks/eles atm and the stupid burst they call mages why use a feral or rogue.

Edited by frigidclam, 10 July 2013 - 05:54 AM.


#29 allana

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

I really believe there should be a mortal strike debuff attached to key melee classes (rogue, warrior more or less - maybe monk) and then have that as the incentive for bringing one of them and creating balanced teams. that's how it was in tbc, you more or less needed to have a MS debuff to kill things (the only exception to this rule was 'shadowplay' - and that was not a top tier comp)

Blizzard's own opinion on this though is basically "having it be mandatory for a class to bring it makes it so we can just lower the average healing permanently and be done with it" but I disagree. I remember it being a key aspect of when you had to BOP to get rid off the MS effect to heal someone.

And now that caster classes are all about casting instant stuff, randomly getting procs from dots and then shooting their big nukes with said procs, why would you bring a melee? I mean, if I play with a warrior I have to make sure he's not rooted somewhere and he will provide very little in the form of CC.

Lower damage, lower healing and add in a higher MS effect for those who have it - that's my proposed change. Sorry for going slightly offtopic here
“As you think, you shall become.” -Pook

#30 Djandawg

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:28 PM

just nvm lol.

Edited by Djandawg, 10 July 2013 - 04:43 PM.


#31 Persephones

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

Casters synergize too well. Bringing another caster into a comp means an additional CC DR which is, tbh, way too strong. Take MLD as an example - Tripple fear, tripple poly and tripple cyclone.

What does a melee bring? Nothing really. The only half decent melee class atm is ferals because 1) They deal retarded damage/got stealth for a good opener 2) They have useful CC

Often times it's a lot harder to play with a melee because they have to get in there to deal damage, which means leaving your pillar of safety, where as casters can stand near the pillar and turrent damage.

As mentioned, melee were balanced because in the old days they'd have way more armor and way more stamina to withstand the damage that they would take. These days it's all normalized so a warrior has the same amount of health as a mage. They need to put more CC on the same DR to neutralize the benefits of stacking casters. Instead of simply saying "fear DRs with poly" it should be specific "warlock fear DRs with poly". You could argue that it'd be too complicated, but honestly the whole DR shit is super complicated to new players anyways. Might as well make a list.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#32 FuguFish

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:01 PM

Isn't it weird that everybody has become so acclimatised to the game that no one even questions the fact that casters don't actually CAST much anymore? Pretty much every caster has some stupid mongoloid on-demand swifty mechanic that is no more skillful to use than a hunter's cooldown. The only downside is that you can peel caster burst if they don't bother to cc before using it.

Also extra dispels (i.e ret sac, imp, tremor, even md maybe), trinket effects, and immune effects needs to be reviewed in a game where dispel is on a cd. It is not rewarding to have baited out dispel just for the enemy to be covered by some ridiculous mechanic.

#33 Djandawg

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:57 AM

Yeah, 5.1 warriors, ferals, 5.2 rogues, 5.3 ferals , rets, enh shamans were feeling that way? People in this thread are right, casters are so forgiving, impossible to shut down, melee requires the true skill. Classes I mentioned got huge success during the respective patches, simply by outplaying casters, even though they were feeling all sad and outclassed :(.
Even this patch,I am sure every feral logs in, stares at the sky for hours, thinking, how  overpowered lock, moonkin, shadowpriest and mage are.

Edited by Djandawg, 11 July 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#34 Braindance

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 11 July 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

I am sure 5.1 warriors, ferals, 5.2 rogues, 5.3 ferals , rets, enh shamans were feeling that way People in this thread are right, casters are so forgiving, impossible to shut down, melee requires the true skill. Classes I mentioned got huge success during the respective patches, simply by outplaying casters, even though they were feeling all sad and outclasses :(.
Wotlk was all casters. Cata was all casters and rogues apart from s9 and early s10.

5.1/2 mages and sps, 5.3 eles win/won only by outplaying now.

J/k

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#35 Djandawg

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:15 AM

Not really. Wotlk had TSG, PHD, WLD, ATC, Double healer warrior/dk, RLS , DKLP etc.

Cata, there were bunch of comps for melee, early lock/dk , dk/sp , kfc, phd, dk/ret/priest, rls, rmp, thug, triple dps.
So no, if you were melee, you had a lot of comps you could run.

#36 Pritchard

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostFuguFish, on 10 July 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Isn't it weird that everybody has become so acclimatised to the game that no one even questions the fact that casters don't actually CAST much anymore? Pretty much every caster has some stupid mongoloid on-demand swifty mechanic that is no more skillful to use than a hunter's cooldown. The only downside is that you can peel caster burst if they don't bother to cc before using it.

Also extra dispels (i.e ret sac, imp, tremor, even md maybe), trinket effects, and immune effects needs to be reviewed in a game where dispel is on a cd. It is not rewarding to have baited out dispel just for the enemy to be covered by some ridiculous mechanic.


how do you want casters to cast with the 100 interrupts in the game?

Any time i see a shadow priest on any one of my classes its actually hilarious.  They have to cast so much and its just a joke to shut all their damage down.

#37 duskfallx

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:53 AM

ferals, dks, rets are strong. enhancement is decent.
melees are not useless, unlike this thread.

#38 Okayenhance

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:14 AM

View Postduskfallx, on 11 July 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

ferals, dks, rets are strong. enhancement is decent.
melees are not useless, unlike this thread.

*with a hunter

This thread is for discussing melee viability. If you disagree, feel free. But the thread isn't useless.

In the end all melee specs bring less CC, less damage, less mobility in most cases, put their healer in worse positioning and require more healing/more dispells. Ferals being the exception and while I find them obnoxious they are being nerfed hard next patch.

Edited by Okayenhance, 11 July 2013 - 02:19 AM.


#39 Braindance

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 11 July 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Not really. Wotlk had TSG, PHD, WLD, ATC, Double healer warrior/dk, RLS , DKLP etc.

Cata, there were bunch of comps for melee, early lock/dk , dk/sp , kfc, phd, dk/ret/priest, rls, rmp, thug, triple dps.
So no, if you were melee, you had a lot of comps you could run.
Posted Image

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#40 Virent

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostOkayenhance, on 11 July 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

*with a hunter

This thread is for discussing melee viability. If you disagree, feel free. But the thread isn't useless.

In the end all melee specs bring less CC, less damage, less mobility in most cases, put their healer in worse positioning and require more healing/more dispells. Ferals being the exception and while I find them obnoxious they are being nerfed hard next patch.

Are you saying that rets and dks bring less damage?
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