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Whats the point of melee anymore?

melee suck

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#1 Okayenhance

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

Here's a question I've been asking myself for a while now. As a player of the most caster-oriented melee I still feel absolutely outclassed when playing against a hunter or any other caster in an arena battle. Why is this?

A few reasons I feel being a melee is simply not beneficial to the game anymore.

1. Casters rarely take more damage from us than they deal to us.

  Casters (and hunters) historically outside of soul-link warlocks were considered in deep shit if a melee was sitting on them. Why? Because armor actually meant something in previous expansions (WOTLK and below). So you actually had a sort of cat-n-mouse type thing going on, warrior charges mage, mage blinks, warrior intercepts mage, mage frostnovas, warrior gets dispelled etc etc. Now I feel that outside of cooldowns the warrior is the one that's consistently running away, what gives?

2. Mana means nothing.

   One of the allures of being a melee was a seemingly endless supply of damage which meant if you could pressure up a team long enough as a melee your lack of crowd control would eventually OOM the enemy healer AND dps and put you ahead leading to an eventual victory. Now there were some problems with this design (I'm looking at you viper sting/mana drain..ಠ_ಠ) but overall it was a solid reason to have a melee and a warlock for that matter. Nowadays I see games of my own and top streamers going on for 5+ minutes while the enemy teams healer is completely tapped and outside of sitting on a spriest who has spent way too much mana spamming flash heal all caster DPS specs don't give a flip about mana. It might as well not exist.

3. Dispel has a cooldown. "Welcome to CC-ville. Enjoy your stay! - Wizards"

   This isn't a new change, no doubt, but is one I find to be a large problem for melee oriented teams not just cleaves but melee/caster/healer. What is the point in dispelling a poly off me when the mage is already instinctively casting another or his teammate is casting fear? Why do these things not have cooldowns? While I understand having your dots spam dispelled by tard shamans in cata was annoying what is the point of bringing a melee over a caster when we are not only far easier to crowd control (as in, only enhancements have the actual tools to stop the spam CC) but have to actually reach our targets just to do less damage than the wizards are doing to our entire team?

4. Positioning

  Funnily enough most melees are defensively weaker than their caster counterparts, despite having to run into the enemy team who is pillaring if they want to score a kill or even get pressure (thanks gate!). How can this be? Well I feel it goes back to how gear was in WOTLK and TBC. Melee, especially plate wearers, had higher armor higher dodge and generally much higher health than their wizard hat wearing counterparts. What they didn't have is absorption shields and the ability to kite or cast self heals repeatedly. This is one of the several reasons why feral druids are so incredible right now compared to other melee, if they want to get out they can powershift slows and snares and run away while their bleeds still do pretty nice damage.



So the reason why I posted this isn't a pity party but rather my concern for the viability of melee in the upcoming patch. With melee effectively requiring a hunter to put them on their shoulders in most cases i'm sure to many the upcoming domination by wizards may not be too shocking. All in all here's hoping for the return of melee/caster/heals.


Am I entirely wrong? Tell me what you think.

#2 AcerMVP

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:30 PM

I don't need a hunter to carry me? Wtf? How long have you been playing this game for?

Btw, as a rogue, casters are a joke; I eat casters alive.

Edited by AcerMVP, 08 July 2013 - 02:31 PM.


#3 Okayenhance

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 08 July 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I don't need a hunter to carry me? Wtf? How long have you been playing this game for?

Btw, as a rogue, casters are a joke; I eat casters alive.
Ladders say otherwise. So do the tournaments for that matter. Most melee play with hunters, rogues might be the opposite since they've historically went well with casters although they are currently the weaker of the melees.

I've played non-competitively with friends since S1. Started playing a lot more in cata. Why?

Edited by Okayenhance, 08 July 2013 - 02:34 PM.


#4 Tsx

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:34 PM

so ur basically qqing about casters being op?when was last time u qued 3s?s11?

#5 Okayenhance

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 08 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

so ur basically qqing about casters being op?when was last time u qued 3s?s11?

Thanks for your addition to the thread. No, i'm talking about the lack of a real draw for melee as a whole, which also has to deal with casters being simply better in most cases. Just stating my feelings on it all for discussion, feel free to disagree. Both of the two responses so far have targeted me as a player, which is probably why AJ lacks any decent discussion at all.

I'm not complaining, I choose to play enhancement because I like it.

Edited by Okayenhance, 08 July 2013 - 02:40 PM.


#6 WildeHilde

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

Actually I think as soon as hunters and ferals are nerfed (5.4) casters will dominate. Most players I talked to during podcast preparations during the last weeks shared that opinion. The tournament consensus seems to be - run with casters unless the melee/hunter is overpowered.

#7 Okayenhance

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 08 July 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Actually I think as soon as hunters and ferals are nerfed (5.4) casters will dominate. Most players I talked to during podcast preparations during the last weeks shared that opinion. The tournament consensus seems to be - run with casters unless the melee/hunter is overpowered.
Yeah, the podcast had me thinking about this as a whole. Warriors, being the definitive melee class along with rogues are both getting changes but as several of the commenters said they simply don't bring anything real outside of damage which is how I feel many melee feel. So what you end up with is either overpowered damage that works very well in rushdown comps (5.1 KFC) or a CC-sponge that does damage every 3 minutes.

View PostZerlog, on 08 July 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

mr shaman, less thinking more training.... pop starwars from 40yards first gcd with some random cc on the enemy healer and he has to trinket, insta hex > your priest mass dispel ib fast and next game?

Another great contribution. Glad to see you can play my spec so well, apparently mage isn't working out for you.

#8 Virent

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:57 PM

Yeah. I agree with you mate.

Rets, enhancements, ferals and dks definitely need buffs.
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#9 Poseyx

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

Ferals will still do very solid damage in 5.4, i see FMP / FPS / FWS being very strong still, i dont think the clone nerf is actually a nerf, now they can spam peel with clone.  I also dont think hunters will be that bad, everyone will most likely go Marks now and the spec really isn't terrible but yeah for the most part it will be a hogwarts fest
www.Twitch.tv/wushington - Multi Gladiator feral stream

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#10 WildeHilde

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:28 PM

One sanity note: I haven't tested too much on the PTR, yet. So I might be wrong.

#11 Zerud

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 08 July 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Actually I think as soon as hunters and ferals are nerfed (5.4) casters will dominate. Most players I talked to during podcast preparations during the last weeks shared that opinion. The tournament consensus seems to be - run with casters unless the melee/hunter is overpowered.
Ye and everyone thought wizzards would dominate from the start of mop with the dispel cooldown, and look what happend

#12 WildeHilde

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostZerud, on 08 July 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:


Ye and everyone thought wizzards would dominate from the start of mop with the dispel cooldown, and look what happend

I agree, that is the big thing. But it actually makes the point. Take melees if they are overpowered. We had at least one melee class over the top for the whole expansion, however not the same one. (Warrior->Rogue->Feral).

#13 ohnoes

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

Was thinking about this today, for the most part warriors/dks/rogues are pretty bad. Sure, there are some good comps with these classes but nothing that is a top tier comp. If ferals got nerfed into the ground casters would simply dominate everything and stated earlier by someone, I too don't think ferals will be nerfed badly at all, the damage they do is ridiculous and as it stands currently on ptr the damage isn't getting touched which is a huge mistake by blizzard..

Can't stand mana not being an issue, whats the point of it being there if its a non-issue? The game was more fun/exciting when it was an issue (yes I'm played a mage in bc and know about mana issues hello mana drain.) It provided an additional strategy in games where a certain comp was not up to par of another, but that option of always ooming the dps or the healer was there.

#14 Okayenhance

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

Ranged characters having mortal strike effects that are the same as melee MS effects is another terrible mistake imo.

#15 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 08 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

so ur basically qqing about casters being op?when was last time u qued 3s?s11?
Veev had a good point about casters vs melee atm and he said that the ladders are mostly filled with casters/wizards and barely any melee and when a caster team does fight a melee and lose they normally call that melee comp scum lords / faceroll even tho you rarely ever fight melee in the top.
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#16 averuki

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

"Once they get nerfed" Thats the funny part. The problem is you never know whats gonna happen like someone said here people predicted casters to be strong in mog bup because of the dispel change butwe didnt see that many caster cleaves being good except
ofgodcomp.

#17 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

View Postaveruki, on 08 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

"Once they get nerfed" Thats the funny part. The problem is you never know whats gonna happen like someone said here people predicted casters to be strong in mog bup because of the dispel change butwe didnt see that many caster cleaves being good except
ofgodcomp.
Probably because of kfc being a caster counter except for a good god comp where they can play O off the bat and force every cd from the kfc last season. if kfc was not viable last season then there would probably be more caster cleaves and well look now!
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#18 phishy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:18 PM

it's still specific to each class. ferals, warriors pre-nerf, rets on occasion, can be overpowered as fuck while the rest of the melee's suffer. likewise, mages, hunters, spriests could be insane while locks could get their face caved in by melee. i don't think it's one or the other. some melee suck and some don't. throw in comp variation and the strengths and weaknesses of different comps and the only thing that is undeniable is that BM needs a nerf

#19 Phillol

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

lord wizard you remain the best

#20 Vadren

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:31 PM

Pretty much after TBC melee have only been good when they can do unhealable damage with few counters. It's not really the most exciting play style. Niches like interrupts with a better lockout ratio (kick's 5s lockout/10s cd vs. 6s lockout 24s cd for CS), healing debuff, and no mana have gradually been removed over time.

Maybe it's time to introduce casts to melee classes to give their burst more depth and counter so they can be buffed in other ways?
Vadren#1175





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