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#61 Udderly

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:06 PM

Silentfisher, relax bro.

But some of you are acting like the swapping thing is only for you.  Let me use some of the new glyphs.  Against a team that you know is going to train you, it's probably a good idea to use the new recup dmg reduction glyph.  If I were in this situation on my ele, I'd drop the hex glyph, knowing that those two melee were never going to allow me to get hex casts off anyway most likely.  Could I say 'omg but i neeeeeeed the hex glyph or i have no cc"? I could, but that's not the point.  

I'm not saying that some things aren't wrong with rogues, I'm really not.  But saying things like 'I CANNOT PLAY WITHOUT THE GARROTE CHEAP SHOT GLYPHS' is as ridiculous as me saying 'I CANNOT PLAY WITHOUT THE HEX GLYPH'.  I give up that extra cc in the match for something else, such as a dot removal on sham rage or a shorter cap totem charge time.  

Like glyph of Blind - again, it's a choice.  If you play with a non dot class, you could coordinate so that your cc target doesn't get dots, and choose to have another clutch glyph like the new no-cd redirect or something.  I will never understand the 'mandatory' mentality for every glyph.  There are rare exceptions (moonbeast for moonkin/lightning shield for ele/etc.) but acting like all of the glyphs are is just nuts to me.  Just my opinion, which doesn't have to match yours.  =)

TL;DR They are giving you positive changes, so I can't imagine how people can complain about it solely because it requires you to give up a glyph slot to use it.

#62 Flanktwo2

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:27 PM

Can't the recup glyph just replace leeching poison and be a talent? Leeching poison is the dumbest talent ever. It does nothing and it cancels out using paralytic.

#63 Mirionx

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

View Postdionim, on 04 July 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

giving you the chance to change talents/glyphs was a bad ideia and just made comps more important, fucking up balance even more.

when you see the enemy team you will always look for the perfect setup to counter him up. thats really fucking bad for wow and specially ladder play

Not sure I agree with that. I like that comps matter less then before, before you knew if you were going to lose or win by simply looking at the comp your facing, now you can beat most teams as most comps because you can just take another talent that might work better against that comp.

For a holy paladin for example if I face LSD2 I just spec in to hand of purity since double sac or freedom wont do a lot and I wouldn't really have a chance of winning with double sac or freedom. The "new" system allows me to at least have a chance outside of lucky RNG crits. I really like that but obviously it has flaws as the system being extremely annoying to respec every game and put new abilitys on the bar etc.

#64 dionim

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostMirionx, on 04 July 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Not sure I agree with that. I like that comps matter less then before, before you knew if you were going to lose or win by simply looking at the comp your facing, now you can beat most teams as most comps because you can just take another talent that might work better against that comp.

For a holy paladin for example if I face LSD2 I just spec in to hand of purity since double sac or freedom wont do a lot and I wouldn't really have a chance of winning with double sac or freedom. The "new" system allows me to at least have a chance outside of lucky RNG crits. I really like that but obviously it has flaws as the system being extremely annoying to respec every game and put new abilitys on the bar etc.

its worse now, a couple times its better, but most of times it only make things worse, imagine your worst countercomp, when they see you, they can counter you even more, that makes winning almost impossible, back people used to use a standart spec that could do "well" against most of comps, now they can use the best possible setup against you, making a counter even harder to beat.

idk but i see less diversity than in wotlk and previous expansions, i see ladder now as a tournament, only top tier comps can make it up to the top (tournament you always use the best setup against the enemy team, just like live now)

#65 apoxy

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:51 PM

View PostFlanktwo2, on 04 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Can't the recup glyph just replace leeching poison and be a talent? Leeching poison is the dumbest talent ever. It does nothing and it cancels out using paralytic.

Glyph of recovery will now increase heals incoming from other sources by 20%, this means 20% more heals coming from leeching poison too if you're using it. I can't test right now but sounds good

#66 sounds

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostFlanktwo2, on 04 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Can't the recup glyph just replace leeching poison and be a talent? Leeching poison is the dumbest talent ever. It does nothing and it cancels out using paralytic.

I still can't believe they haven't addressed the fact that you can pick a talent in either tier 3 and tier 5 and essentially nullify one of your choices.

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#67 Creamo

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:04 PM

View PostUdderly, on 04 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

cyclone/barkskin/moonbeast/fae silence/entangling roots
Barkskin and Moonbeast are our only mandatory glyphs. The rest are all more or less trash. We have flexibility there because blizzard didn't bother to make glyphs for moonkin. Comparing Boomkin to this current rogue issue is apples and oranges, they have like 6 or 7 amazing glyphs and only 3 slots.

#68 Emophia

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostFlanktwo2, on 04 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Can't the recup glyph just replace leeching poison and be a talent? Leeching poison is the dumbest talent ever. It does nothing and it cancels out using paralytic.

Leeching poison is great for PVE so that will never happen.

#69 Udderly

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostCreamo, on 04 July 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Barkskin and Moonbeast are our only mandatory glyphs. The rest are all more or less trash. We have flexibility there because blizzard didn't bother to make glyphs for moonkin. Comparing Boomkin to this current rogue issue is apples and oranges, they have like 6 or 7 amazing glyphs and only 3 slots.

Not to derail the thread, but the rest are not 'trash', they may just not be as powerful.  More range on cyclone, having an extra silence (AN ADDITIONAL SILENCE!!) or faster roots cast in todays game of interruptcraft are pretty big in some games.

#70 Lord Xar

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:53 PM

View Postsounds_, on 04 July 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

I still can't believe they haven't addressed the fact that you can pick a talent in either tier 3 and tier 5 and essentially nullify one of your choices.

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Since leech sucks so much in pvp, I"d say BAKE in Paralytic + Leech and call it "Master poisoner" and just combine them into one effect. Paralytic doesn't work on bosses, so no real pve implications.  And offer a reasonable alternative in Tier 5.

#71 Lord Xar

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:56 PM

View PostEmophia, on 04 July 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Leeching poison is great for PVE so that will never happen.

I wouldn't say "great". It just that ALL OTHER OFFHAND poisons are worthless in a raid environment. So, why not have some crappola heals coming in? If and when you are dealing with massive BOSS aoe or cleave etc... a 2k heal from a white hit isn't gonna save you.. Granted, its good - but its' not great.

#72 Atkinson

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostMarshmellow, on 04 July 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

ok biased welfare access member

Something about you saying that makes me lol
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#73 Reirei

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:20 PM

View Postsounds_, on 04 July 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

I still can't believe they haven't addressed the fact that you can pick a talent in either tier 3 and tier 5 and essentially nullify one of your choices.

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ahaha yeah that still baffles me even now, the biggest design flaw MoP edition

i think that 20% extra heal received should be baked into evasion to make it actually do something instead of glyph of recup

@Kermi: i don't want to get into huge argument that would lead to nothing, i tried to make a metaphor so you would understand my point but i guess it flew over your head anyway so i will stop here
shut up pvp guy

#74 limek

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostReirei, on 04 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

ahaha yeah that still baffles me even now, the biggest design flaw MoP edition

i think that 20% extra heal received should be baked into evasion to make it actually do something instead of glyph of recup
Shitty rogues complain more, at the end of the day all of these changes are absurd

#75 Dethz

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

shadowstep baseline, only buff i can ask 4

#76 sounds

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostLord Xar, on 04 July 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Since leech sucks so much in pvp, I"d say BAKE in Paralytic + Leech and call it "Master poisoner" and just combine them into one effect. Paralytic doesn't work on bosses, so no real pve implications.  And offer a reasonable alternative in Tier 5.

Well they could do that but put it in place of parayltic, and then replace leeching poison's spot with the recuperate glyph instead. /shrug

#77 limek

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostDethz, on 04 July 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

shadowstep baseline, only buff i can ask 4
makes no sense

View Postsounds_, on 04 July 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

Well they could do that but put it in place of parayltic, and then replace leeching poison's spot with the recuperate glyph instead. /shrug
Why all you can think of are stupid, ridic changes? Leeching is in survivability tree and Paralytic in Utility tree. You ALWAYS was supposed to choose best poisons depending on the matchup. The problem is that Prey is so overpowered it's mandatory.

#78 limek

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:54 PM

View Postsounds_, on 04 July 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:


Well they could do that but put it in place of parayltic, and then replace leeching poison's spot with the recuperate glyph instead. /shrug


#79 sounds

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:43 PM

View Postlimek, on 04 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

makes no sense

Why? It's the only mobility spell outside of sprint and they took it away and made it a talent.

View Postlimek, on 04 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Why all you can think of are stupid, ridic changes? Leeching is in survivability tree and Paralytic in Utility tree. You ALWAYS was supposed to choose best poisons depending on the matchup. The problem is that Prey is so overpowered it's mandatory.

Yeah nobody is talking about that, we're talking about the fact that you can pick 2 separate talents on 2 separate tiers and essentially cancel out one of your choices. I don't think anyone is really asking for some amazing godlike changes, just a cleanup of the tree and removing bloated shit that should be baseline.

e; I've seen you posting all over this section, if you have nothing better to do than shitpost why are you even here?

#80 KPul

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:54 PM

Seriously stop driving this thread into the ground.    In what particular situation would you want both paralytic AND leeching poison over the other things in those tiers.

Since this is arenamembers.com and the rogue section posts have come to this, I'm going to go ahead and show the guys who made an entire page on this thread complaining about how leeching can cancel out paralytic.

DONT  SPEC  INTO  LEECHING POISON!

There isnt one possible situation in a pvp environment that i would say spec into Leeching poison over Cheat death or Elusiveness.

Even if this were raidjunkies.com  i would turn around and say dont spec into paralytic.   They both have clear cut uses and it serves no purpose to say "Hey I can spec into leeching and paralytic but i cant use both at the same time"  If you do that, you are just stupid and we cannot help you.
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