Jump to content

Photo

What Do rshammys need to be Competitive.

shamman

  • Please log in to reply
140 replies to this topic

#41 Flabbert

Flabbert
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 128
  • Talents: Elemental 0/0/1/2/0/2
  • RBG: 2460

Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:34 PM

I dont see anything wrong with earthshield having dispel immunity. It's like making beacon of light dispellable again.
  • 0
Posted Image

#42 TteSPORTSDoomsen

TteSPORTSDoomsen
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Frostmane
  • Misery
  • Posts: 969
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/0/.
  • 2v2: 2477
  • 3v3: 3080
  • RBG: 2541
  • LocationTyskland

Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

Points like these make me chuckle.


Would you also tell me why? People tend to reroll so much in WoW, as soon as a class gets worse, you barely see it in arena anymore, yet you see a lot of Resto Shamans, so they can't be as bad as most of the people here stamped them. Atleast I'm glad to have been able to make you smile without even knowing what common sense could be behind it.


p.s. could be that you also missunderstood the sentence, it was not meant to say that resto shaman is the second best healer, just because you see more shamans than druids in arena.

Edited by TteSPORTSDoomsen, 30 June 2013 - 02:51 PM.

  • 0

#43 wodeta

wodeta

Posted 30 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

I'm very skeptical about the talk of shamans being bad. I should disclaim however that I am a rDruid and my opinion will be biased as such. Nonetheless, I would like someone to point to the bad that is afflicting rShamans.

As mentioned in this thread, people claim that shamans are too easily trained by ferals and eventually get torn apart. My only retort is that feral druids also happen to be quite strong versus resto druids, and I don't find that a reason to believe that resto druids are bad.

Just because a class/spec has some natural counters doesn't mean the class is rendered useless in EVERY situation.

I think we should remember that rShamans have one of the BEST defensive mechanics in the game. (one that they don't even have to activate)

Nature's Guardian

Is it their healing throughput that makes shamans bad?
Is it their lack of CC's?

If someone could give me exact reasons as to why resto shamans are BAD, I would be humbled by your discussions.


Here are some reasons :

All defensive cooldowns shaman have are HEALING effects, no dmg decrease, so battle fatigue getting buffed is a harder nerf to shamans than any other healer

Shamans are the ONLY healers that CANNOT use a skill while stunned or silenced and dont come saying that we have Nature's Guardian when EVERY healer has atleast 2 abilities they can use while stunned/silenced

Here's a few lists of other's healers defensive CD they can use while stunned/silenced

Priests : Passive 30% Less dmg, Pain sup
Druids(a complete joke in this matter) : Barskin, Might of Ursoc, Ironbark, Blink, Shapeshift , Tree of Life, Symbiosis Skills, Dash, Stampeding Roar, FFS they can even DISPEL when they get locked out in nature school
Paladins: Bubble, 45sec cd Sprint, Divine protection, Aura Mastery
Monk : Fortiying Brew, Life Cocoon, Nimble Brew, passive 2.5 duration immunity, Rolls

I dont mind at all removing tremor from totemic restoration as long i can survive without need peels 24/7 from my partners

Some suggestions : Making Astral Shift usable while stunned/silence, Making Ghostwolf used while silenced, buffing Stonebulwak totem absorb effect by atleast 100k, adding a dmg reduction to Nature's Guardian, Adding the same glyph lightning shield has but for Water Shield too.

These are just some suggestions, of course i'm not suggesting all of them together.

Edited by wodeta, 30 June 2013 - 03:08 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image

#44 Megorix

Megorix
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Farstriders
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 202
  • Talents: Combat
  • LocationPrince Edward Island

Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

Reduce the cooldown of astral shift or at least increase the duration, and make it usable while stunned. It is a talent, after all.

I think people have the right to ask for Shaman buffs. And the sooner they come, the better. I don't think the Arena community can tolerate anymore Elemental rerolls...

The PVP trinket set buff should help Shamans quite a bit as well, at least with surviving. The resilience change coupled with the healing reductions really did hurt Shamans the most (by far). Having the equivelant of 68% resilience again, while being able to gem for intellect and crit or mastery should help.
  • 0

#45 Udderly

Udderly
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Kil'jaeden
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 793
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 1918

Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:07 PM

Granted they are not Undead Monks or Priests, that's how every class feels about fears. Shamans have been too accustomed to playing with such mechanics that really have no drawback (lol, I'm feared, lol tremor, so skilled). No, there should definitely be a drawback if you are to use, or even if you are able to use such an ability (currently it's being trained to death or hard-switched and dying in a random stun).


Different classes are different? Druids can shift roots and immune polys, priests can death cc, shamans have tremor. I'm not saying some change isn't warranted (totemic restoration says hi) but dealing with fears is the shaman niche (not to mention warriors and dks, which everyone seems to forget)

Undispellable earth shield would also be a bad change. That would just reduce the skill cap in this game even further. "Set it and forget" is not a good thing to have in this game if you want rating to be skill based.

Shamans just need a better way to deal with getting trained to the ground by melee or melee+hunter. Maybe a better escape mechanism?


I think escape mechanism is a big part of the equation as a shaman in general right now. GW feels useless half the time, especially having to save a glyph spot just to make it even worth going into! So many gap closers and slows, it's not the escape mechanism that the class needs in the current state of arena.

Lets put the fact on the table, that Rshamans have been the overlords for the last 2 years? And now you are asking for buffs, since you lost the spot of the most dominant healer. Every class/specc in PvP has its downtimes, why shouldn't Shaman be not the best healer for a while? On European servers you still see high representation auf Resto Shamans in Arena, probably more than you see Druids, which would put him on the second place.

The ideas I have read here of bringing Shamanistic Rage and so on to a baseline for all 3 speccs is prolly the most absurd idea I have heard in quite a while regardiing how to "balance" a spec that ain't even bad. Most of you ain't asking for balance changes, more likely changes to decrease the skill cap even more.

Damage output is the problem and once that is done you can also ask for nerfs on other healers, for example: priest shields/ironbark.


I can't even respond to most of your post because you start with basically saying "you were good before, so now you should suck". Did you enjoy sucking a fat chode as a resto druid in cata because your spec was so good in earlier seasons? I bet it was loads of fun. This is a video game we play for enjoyment - no one is supposed to get punished for their spec being good at some point. Shamans aren't asking to be the best, they are asking to have a tool to deal with for a couple of gaps and are OFFERING to lose some current tools to do it (mastery, totem restoration, etc).
  • 0

#46 dekonig

dekonig
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 46
  • Talents: Protection 1/0/2/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1988
  • 3v3: 2212
  • RBG: 958

Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:14 AM

What do you think about something like a resto passive: "casting ghost wolf now increases your movement speed by 150% and grants immunity to movement impairing effects for 3s. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30s." some kind of escape that isn't game breaking but could at least give you one more cast every 30s, which I think would go a long way.
  • 0

#47 Megorix

Megorix
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Farstriders
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 202
  • Talents: Combat
  • LocationPrince Edward Island

Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

The escape problem is real, which is why playing with a warlock is so crucial right now, and also why having a 60 second CD on gateway will do nothing but lower RShaman viability even more. The problem is, when you are getting trained now a days, it's very difficult to cast. The ball is no longer in your court, you can't just juke and rejuke, you need to worry about so many interrupts and pseudo interrupts. Silences, stuns, disorients, fear, etc etc.

You are relying almost 100% on your partners to create that breathing room for you, because you can't do it yourself. Shamans are also vulnerable to instant CC, and when we are CC'd, we have what? Riptide? A totem out if we are lucky? And earth shield; if it wasn't dispelled. The majority of comps, hunter comps in particular, have a plethora of instant CC. Shaman PVP healing mechanics are just outdated with the current state of the game. Battlefatigue was the nail in the coffin.

What's even worse still, is this season has been awful for us since 5.3, and rogues (the anti-shaman) are non-existent on the ladder.
  • 0

#48 Prolifics

Prolifics
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 147
  • Talents: Feral 2/2/1/1/2/.
  • RBG: 575

Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

Making earth shield undispellable and further casualizing the game?.. No thanks.

Also, R Shams aren't "bad" by any means. Tremor totem is arguably the most imbalanced thing in arena next to ele's, hunters and spirit shell. The main problem is there is really no reason to take a r sham over a disc priest for cleave comps, and R Druids somewhat out-shine R Shams for caster cleave comps (especially CC-wise).
  • 1

#49 Flabbert

Flabbert
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 128
  • Talents: Elemental 0/0/1/2/0/2
  • RBG: 2460

Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

Making earth shield undispellable and further casualizing the game?.. No thanks.

Also, R Shams aren't "bad" by any means. Tremor totem is arguably the most imbalanced thing in arena next to ele's, hunters and spirit shell. The main problem is there is really no reason to take a r sham over a disc priest for cleave comps, and R Druids somewhat out-shine R Shams for caster cleave comps (especially CC-wise).


Would you like it if all your lifeblooms were dispelled with 1 purge? Same goes for the priest stacking stuff, they all take multiple purges to take away 1 stacked buff.

There is something wrong with Earthshield and dispel.
  • 0
Posted Image

#50 Udderly

Udderly
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Kil'jaeden
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 793
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 1918

Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

Making earth shield undispellable and further casualizing the game?.. No thanks.

Also, R Shams aren't "bad" by any means. Tremor totem is arguably the most imbalanced thing in arena next to ele's, hunters and spirit shell. The main problem is there is really no reason to take a r sham over a disc priest for cleave comps, and R Druids somewhat out-shine R Shams for caster cleave comps (especially CC-wise).


Casualizing the game? Apparently you missed Cataclysm, where it was undispellable. Clearly the game was ruined by that one choice and they renamed it "CasualCraft". Bravo, good sir, for pointing this out.
  • 0

#51 dekonig

dekonig
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 46
  • Talents: Protection 1/0/2/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1988
  • 3v3: 2212
  • RBG: 958

Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:13 PM

Making earth shield undispellable and further casualizing the game?.. No thanks.

Also, R Shams aren't "bad" by any means. Tremor totem is arguably the most imbalanced thing in arena next to ele's, hunters and spirit shell. The main problem is there is really no reason to take a r sham over a disc priest for cleave comps, and R Druids somewhat out-shine R Shams for caster cleave comps (especially CC-wise).


The main problem is R shams have no way of escaping teams that go balls out mongo on them. Druids have always been the strongest anti cleave because of their mobility and the fact that they can do a lot of healing without casting (and displacer is frankly ridiculous). Priests have PS, fear and guise to escape and get a cast off (not to mention their shells). Monks have transcendance and all sorts of mobility to escape heavy pressure. Pallies have freedom and sprint, as well as a fairly decent bunch of non-casted heals. Shamans on the other hand have no real defensive cooldown, no sprint (ghost wolf is a very very poor excuse for a sprint), practically no instant heals other than unleashed riptide which heals for a pathetic amount every 15 seconds. Healing tide? DPS through the healing or destroy it in 3 seconds. Link? merely putting off the inevitable.

Every class has its strengths and weaknesses, it just so happens that in the current meta, R sham's weaknesses line up perfectly with many dps classes' strengths. The need to hard cast and weak defensive CDs means r shams have a very very difficult time dealing with the current meta. The writing was on the wall in 5.2, but because spriests were so strong and synergised so well with rshams, the inherent weaknesses of shamans was largely papered over. Now that spriests have lost swap, rshams are practically half as survivable as they were previously. I'll go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of highly rated r shams play with a warlock, because gate is so game breaking for survivability. When gate is nerfed in 5.4 shamans will have some serious problems unless some pertinent changes are made.
  • 0

#52 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4,336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:59 PM

Casualizing the game? Apparently you missed Cataclysm, where it was undispellable. Clearly the game was ruined by that one choice and they renamed it "CasualCraft". Bravo, good sir, for pointing this out.


To be fair, Cata was the worst expansion and made millions quit (including myself). It also casualized many aspects of the game (headlined by LFR) and Resto Shamans were a godlike healer for most of the expansion from what I've heard.
  • 1
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#53 zenga

zenga
  • Members
  • Posts: 396
  • LocationBelgium

Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:17 PM

First, it’s no longer a talent. Healing Tide Totem is now baseline, available to all three Shaman specs. (blue post)

Seems like a massive buff, not only for resto.
  • 0

#54 Dizzeeyo

Dizzeeyo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3,718
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/2/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:56 PM

First, it’s no longer a talent. Healing Tide Totem is now baseline, available to all three Shaman specs. (blue post)

Seems like a massive buff, not only for resto.

nice buff for ele, the spec could use some help right now...

will be interesting to see the talent that replaces it at least :)
  • 0

No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#55 Udderly

Udderly
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Kil'jaeden
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 793
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 1918

Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:11 PM

nice buff for ele, the spec could use some help right now...

will be interesting to see the talent that replaces it at least :)


I'm certainly not going to complain, but does anyone else feel like this is their precursor to an unannounced tremor nerf, saying "eles, you can't be mad that we nerfed the crap outta tremor cause we gave you more healing!!"?

I think totem restoration needs to not include tremor, but I'm scared they might take it a step further with a big buff like this (and this is pretty enormous IMO - being able to pick up AG vs. comps where you aren't trained can give you a shit ton of burst healing while you're putting out pressure on the other team. I've always loved AG over tide as Ele when I can free cast, for this specific reason).
  • 0

#56 Jpear5000

Jpear5000
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Frostmourne
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 37
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:52 AM

Imagine situation like this, your team chaces say a mage behind pillar vs for example godcomp. Your trinket is down.
You´ll have to run through open space to assist. I´m assuming now this is not a terribad godcomp and they deep you
at same time or just before your team mates get feared.
U get swap onto with full deep +silence.

As a shaman you got 1 button to press during that lockout. ONE!! That´s not even a shaman ability, it´s your BM trinket.
Rest of the time you´ll sit there fingers crossed hoping for a miracle.

Cba listing all the abilities other healers have but y, what they share in common is that they can survive 1 or more of these swaps
on their own during arena matches, and not only surviving initial burst but also have means to escape the situation and take distance.

Solutions:

1. Make totems usable while silenced. This means that if it´s just a blanket silence totems work, if you took a nature lock which actually took some skill to land you pay the price and do the time. Only fair imo.

2. Shamanistic rage baseline for all specs. All other healers have oh shit buttons, why not shamans?

3. Undispellable ES or dispellable 1 charge at a time. Buff riptide initial healing.

4. Spiritwalker´s grace usable to break silence effects.


Also I don't think the aura mastery effect from Spiritwalkers should be dispellable. At the very least non water totems (hst/mtt/htt) should be usable while silenced (not locked) imo.

Edited by Jpear5000, 07 July 2013 - 09:55 AM.

  • 0

#57 Udderly

Udderly
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Kil'jaeden
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 793
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 1918

Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:52 PM

Also I don't think the aura mastery effect from Spiritwalkers should be dispellable. At the very least non water totems (hst/mtt/htt) should be usable while silenced (not locked) imo.


The aura mastery being dispellable makes for more interesting gameplay. I'm glad we have mechanics like this in a game because it gives the opportunity for more than just "spam instant cc and pop cds" type of gameplay. Hitting a clutch purge to interrupt the cast is interesting and dynamic IMHO, not to mention making your aura mastery not something you just pop and forget - you have to use it wisely.
  • 0

#58 Jpear5000

Jpear5000
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Frostmourne
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 37
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

The aura mastery being dispellable makes for more interesting gameplay. I'm glad we have mechanics like this in a game because it gives the opportunity for more than just "spam instant cc and pop cds" type of gameplay. Hitting a clutch purge to interrupt the cast is interesting and dynamic IMHO, not to mention making your aura mastery not something you just pop and forget - you have to use it wisely.


Well then monk/priest/pally aura mastery should be dispellable as well then.
  • 0

#59 Udderly

Udderly
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Kil'jaeden
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 793
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 1918

Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

Well then monk/priest/pally aura mastery should be dispellable as well then.


Different classes are different? Should we give them all hex too? Maybe we should give ghost wolf to paladins and bubble to priests....come on man, logic.
  • 0

#60 phunk

phunk
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 693
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/2/1/0/0

Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:06 PM

Imagine situation like this, your team chaces say a mage behind pillar vs for example godcomp. Your trinket is down.
You´ll have to run through open space to assist. I´m assuming now this is not a terribad godcomp and they deep you
at same time or just before your team mates get feared.
U get swap onto with full deep +silence.

As a shaman you got 1 button to press during that lockout. ONE!! That´s not even a shaman ability, it´s your BM trinket.
Rest of the time you´ll sit there fingers crossed hoping for a miracle.

Cba listing all the abilities other healers have but y, what they share in common is that they can survive 1 or more of these swaps
on their own during arena matches, and not only surviving initial burst but also have means to escape the situation and take distance.

Solutions:

1. Make totems usable while silenced. This means that if it´s just a blanket silence totems work, if you took a nature lock which actually took some skill to land you pay the price and do the time. Only fair imo.

2. Shamanistic rage baseline for all specs. All other healers have oh shit buttons, why not shamans?

3. Undispellable ES or dispellable 1 charge at a time. Buff riptide initial healing.

4. Spiritwalker´s grace usable to break silence effects.


I love you please give me this!
  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: shamman

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<