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What Do rshammys need to be Competitive.

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#1 Myci

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:25 AM

I was thinking undispellable earthshield? that would be a nice survivablilty buff, as long as your smart enough to swap it to you before dmg.
And frankly going back to using totems during a silence would be pretty amazing. Personally i dont think it would be OP, but what do the rest of you think?
niether of these changes would affect pve either


Edit: Old thread is old
i thnk shamans are pretty damn nice atm, thou we still really suck while getting trained.

#2 xTeknotic

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:58 AM

This is actually a good post, coming from a four time Gladiator (from a shitty backwater BG called Vindication) who recently quit. With a few minor tweaks to what has been posted here I think Shamans skill cap could actually return instead of giving off that automatic drone like feeling when playing a Shaman, not to mention the class being more viable over all. More totem dancing, less Healing Tide Totem when a Warrior goes red. Although Earth Shield not being able to be dispelled seems kinda shitty, unless they put Earth Shield on a decently good cool down. Lord knows I like to blanket my Fear Wards with it when a Priest tries to run in, clean me, then Fear me. I play a Rogue so I wouldn't know much about the pro Cdew tactics that wet the panties of men and women alike. But I'd like to be playing with a Cata-ish Shaman next time I play RLS. Then maybe JUST MAYBE, would Thug Cleave finally die.

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#3 Adden

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

Haven't really played much lately so i'm not that up to date but rdruids and disc priests seem absurd. Should just tone them down abit instead of giving any buffs to rshamans. Iron Bark should have a longer CD and/or shouldn't be usable while silenced, making it abit more clutch using it pre-cc instead of mindlessly using it on every silence etc, and should nerf the absorbs of discpriests and increase their healing done instead maybe.

#4 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:48 PM

hunter nerfs^^ :P

#5 Isumi

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:02 PM

i think the biggest problem is the survivability against mages and ferals. we just flop in a few seconds from 100-0 when a feral pops his cds/we are deep'd.

our healing output is still good, the problem is we have to cast a lot more than druids or priests. in the current state of the game there are so many ways to stop a heal. especially against huntercleaves these little short ccs are aids for shamans because we can't get a heal off, while druids or priest heal a lot more with instants.

#6 Axalmar

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:05 PM

View PostMyci, on 28 June 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Frankly im not an amazing shamm on anything, and  i know there are some comps like FPS or shadowcleave that are alright with them. But honestly would disagree that shamans are behind other healers atm?   Melee cleaves are nuts and thats a huge part of it, i get it. But frankly its not going to be getting better next patch. There may be less ferals but the dmg will still be fucked. Hunters will be raping as MM, combat rogues, enhance ect all still making cleaves great.  Meanwhile pvp gear is going to 522 and resil is staying the same.  Druids are getting insane buffs when they are already doing well, even great in some comps like lsd and ele/spriest.  Disc and holy are both getting nice buffs with divine insight and from darkness comes light, and god knows they have a ton of comps they are great with.  Even pallies are getting some buffs, thou i cant say where they will stand after. Resto shaman arent getting touched. Does blizzard really have noo idea how shit they are atm?
Either way I would like to hear Ajs thoughts on them, and what changes could be made to bring them inline with other healers. Idealy things that would only affect pvp, so it might be more likely to happen. I have no idea where they stand in pvp, but im assuming they are where they want them atm.
I mean honestly if im not playing with a hybrid and a gate its just pointless.

I was thinking undispellable earthshield? that would be a nice survivablilty buff, as long as your smart enough to swap it to you before dmg.
And frankly going back to using totems during a silence would be pretty amazing. Personally i dont think it would be OP, but what do the rest of you think?
niether of these changes would affect pve either

Well lets start off with the easy one, your whole post is more of an incoherent rant than constructive post but Il give it a shot.

You cant have usable totems while silenced since then you can just ''boop'' press a button to solve a problem instead of actually thinking before hand.

Nor is divine insight getting buffed, that change was reverted but you are right on the money with resto druids getting too many buffs.

To conclude, its like adden said. Priests and druids need a little bit of toning down instead of buffing other classes to retardation.

Because every class always gets buffs this game is a clusterfuck of shit and no new player wants to start it.

#7 Wallirik

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:17 PM

game is best when i don't have to deal with tremor totem.


oh another ele team



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damn it

#8 Kroyfel

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostAxalmar, on 28 June 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:


Nor is divine insight getting buffed, that change was reverted but you are right on the money with resto druids getting too many buffs.

Divine Insight change was reverted for holy, but not for disc.

#9 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:07 AM

Current tremor is kinda needed as long as a priest can go invisible at mounted speed to fear you or throw a psyfiend on to of your pillar
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#10 ysnakewoo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:00 AM

They need to nerf cooldown stacking, as it is currently too, not even overpowered, retarded I'd say. Rshamans suffer from being trained to death by namely Hunters and Ferals, not from them being bad.

I just rerolled a Hunter (from being a 2.3k Disc in S10 when 2.4k was almost impossible to get due to MMR change) and I literally killed a few people in arena without realizing it (I forget I put my pet on someone, most likely a healer and he just kills them), I randomly get procs, pop all my shit and people die.

Rshamans do not need almost any buffs (although, Shamans are the last class to get looked at every patch), if any, they need a nerf on their derp mechanics (mainly Tremor), but again, so do Disc Priests need a nerf on Spirit Shell and I think RDruids are actually perfectly balanced in 3s (in 2s, they can cc you endlessly with mongoloid effort).

When aforementioned classes get nerfed, Shamans will have a place as a viable healer. Simply because current Shaman state is meant to be good at mana management and burning enemy's healer down through sheer utility with totems and positioning (which is no small task in current arena state). Shamans have been the most successful healer in outlasting comps since Spirit Link was introduced in game (somewhere mid-s10 or something), but currently, such comps do not have a place in the game. It's all about push a button to kill or lose points.
I'm not useless, I can be used as a bad example.

#11 fakeswagjk

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:01 AM

I cant even imagine this game with out 30 sec tremor.

#12 ysnakewoo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:30 AM

View Postfakeswagjk, on 29 June 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

I cant even imagine this game with out 30 sec tremor.

Granted they are not Undead Monks or Priests, that's how every class feels about fears. Shamans have been too accustomed to playing with such mechanics that really have no drawback (lol, I'm feared, lol tremor, so skilled). No, there should definitely be a drawback if you are to use, or even if you are able to use such an ability (currently it's being trained to death or hard-switched and dying in a random stun).
I'm not useless, I can be used as a bad example.

#13 fakeswagjk

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:56 AM

If shamans didnt have 30 sec tremor they would be useless (holy pallys 2.0). personally i really don't think resto shamans dieing in 3s is even a issue, why kill a shaman when u can cc him for 40 secs. (hunter/disc/x)
but this is from my perspective of playing splay, lsd, and warrior spriest.

Edited by fakeswagjk, 29 June 2013 - 02:57 AM.


#14 fant0m8

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:49 AM

Undispellable earth shield would also be a bad change. That would just reduce the skill cap in this game even further. "Set it and forget" is not a good thing to have in this game if you want rating to be skill based.

Shamans just need a better way to deal with getting trained to the ground by melee or melee+hunter. Maybe a better escape mechanism?
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#15 Korzul

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:59 AM

Inc totem of displacem... erm transposition!

Quote

Undispellable earth shield would also be a bad change. That would just reduce the skill cap in this game even further

It wouldn't be a bad change, without earthshield on the target we lose 20% of our healing instantly. It's too easy to counter right now with mindless dispel spam. Maybe making it undispellable (or back to dispelling 1-2 stacks at a time) would add some intelligence into whether to spam purge/tranq shot/spell steal etc instead of making it never a bad option.

Edited by Korzul, 29 June 2013 - 04:04 AM.


#16 Bigmoran

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:17 AM

I'm very skeptical about the talk of shamans being bad. I should disclaim however that I am a rDruid and my opinion will be biased as such. Nonetheless, I would like someone to point to the bad that is afflicting rShamans.

As mentioned in this thread, people claim that shamans are too easily trained by ferals and eventually get torn apart. My only retort is that feral druids also happen to be quite strong versus resto druids, and I don't find that a reason to believe that resto druids are bad.

Just because a class/spec has some natural counters doesn't mean the class is rendered useless in EVERY situation.

I think we should remember that rShamans have one of the BEST defensive mechanics in the game. (one that they don't even have to activate)

Nature's Guardian

Is it their healing throughput that makes shamans bad?
Is it their lack of CC's?

If someone could give me exact reasons as to why resto shamans are BAD, I would be humbled by your discussions.

Edited by Bigmoran, 29 June 2013 - 04:18 AM.

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#17 Evolute

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:02 AM

I mained shamans for years

I hate playing it currently

They need some sort of active defense, maybe shamanistic rage just baseline for all 3 specs

Their mastery still needs to be reworked, for when they cast they can 10 to 100 someone with a critical, but when they can't cast they're useless riptide spamming retards

It's like if rdruids were left with only rejuv lifebloom and no tree, but when you got rejuv it crit for 300k or hit for 60k

actually that describes rshams pretty well

http://www.arenajunk...g-specs-in-s13/

said this months ago \o/

Edited by Evolute, 29 June 2013 - 07:05 AM.

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#18 Persephones

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostSweatyfingrs, on 29 June 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Current tremor is kinda needed as long as a priest can go invisible at mounted speed to fear you or throw a psyfiend on to of your pillar

This logic is retarded. How do you think any other class deals with it? Ps you probably have the most tools to deal with this next to druids

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#19 Raebanz

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

This is more a problem with the game itself in its current state not suiting shamans rather than a problem with shamans themselves.

Patch 5.0 - 5.2 = cast 1 Healing Surge with Unleash Elements up - Crit a good 70% of the time and top someone, still heals a good amount if it doesn't so fewer casts are necessary.

Patch 5.3 = cast 1 Healing Surge with Unleash Elements up and it does absolutely nothing unless it crits and even then you usually have to follow it up with maybe 1-2 more healing surges to top someone. In the current state of the game this does not happen unless the opposition is retarded.

Paladins are in a similar boat except they can more easily avoid CC against the hunter comps which make up a good 70% ~ of the comps you face when queuing 3s.

This coupled with all the buffs to melee (which in itself was bound to be a nerf to shamans) means we now have to be babysat in a hybrid comp (FPS/LSD2) or play shadowcleave which is average and relies on the retarded gateway and retarded damage of DKs.

And you wonder why everyone is going ele when we can just flame shock everything and wait for a bit of RNG to kill someone.

#20 watchmepwn

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

Healing output is shit. So fix that, but don't fix it like 5.0 was (1 heal is topping).

Then rsham is fine.





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