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Soul of the Forest for Resto.


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#1 Cokesi

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:19 AM

Soul of the Forest

One thing that I've recently looked at, in light of all the new Resto Druid changes, is Soul of the Forest. I've seen next to zero discussion on it, and I don't feel like it's bad enough to utterly disregard. Obviously, Tree form is definitely great, and still most likely the best choice, but I'd like to start some discussion about this heavily overlooked talent.

Advantages

-It affects Cyclone, Hibernate, everything. It makes most casts difficult, though not impossible, to kick. It feels a bit like casting Divine Light with Infusion procs. This seems really strong, and is the biggest appeal of the talent to me.

-It's a lot more passive healing, especially AoE. Using every SotF proc on Wild Growth against a constant-pressure dot cleave type team could make things significantly easier, even though AoE healing is already rather easy for Druids.

-Mana savings. Not that Druids really have mana issues. Ironically, I only run OOM in Tree form.

Disadvantages

-Losing Tree form. Losing it is a pretty huge hit with the pace of the game currently, although maybe Disc/Hunter/X teams and the like will be less prevalent in the future.

-I believe the buff is purge-able, however it only lasts 6 seconds anyway, and you'd generally use it immediately.

-Possibly a bit less throughput if you don't use SotF procs on heals, since you'd probably want to reforge to a higher haste breakpoint, therefore losing some mastery. (theincbear.com/math/resto-haste-breakpoints has a table of the breakpoints).

5.4

-Soul of the Forest has been partially redesigned to make it more attractive to Balance, Guardian, and Restoration Druids.
  • Restoration: Now causes the Druid to gain 100% haste (up from 75%) on their next spell after casting Swiftmend.
(Note that 100% haste does not, in this case, mean an instant cast.)

In Conclusion

I believe SotF could be a viable option against certain comps in 3s. I plan to try it out, for a while at least, reforging to the ~4.1k haste breakpoint. Would this be the best breakpoint to go for with SotF? Also, since I'm not sure of the math behind it, would the 5.4 buff change the SotF breakpoints?

Has anyone already experimented with this talent? If so, how did it pan out, and how sorely did you miss Tree form? Which comp did you run, and which comps did it feel effective against? I encourage anyone who hasn't to give it a try for a few games and post about it here.

(One last thing to note, if you do decide to give it a try, is that using an NS+Heal/Clone/whathaveyou will consume the buff, so be mindful of that.)

#2 Braindance

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:31 AM

And that's why opening class forums to members was a good idea. Good work.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#3 Thasta

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:47 AM

Sounds pretty good. In 5.4 you'll be able to use the haste from Soul of the Forest to double the tick frequency of rejuvenation then use Genesis to make it tick 400% faster, aka 8+ ticks in 3 seconds

Edited by Thasta, 27 June 2013 - 08:53 AM.


#4 Timoxa

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:07 AM

Would be nice to know, whats the cast time on cyclone of haste gemmed/forged druids after using swiftmend. On 5.4 ofcourse.

#5 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:42 AM

The haste breakpoints will change. You will need less haste to get the extra ticks, you gemmed/reforged for in 5.3, if you were using sotf with 75% haste there.

The problem with sotf is that it is really awful for PvP due to how it works. In PvE you can use it for each WG on cd, to maximize the strongest aoe spell you have. What good is sotf if you use it on a regrowth or lifebloom for example? Nothing. On a rejuvenation sure it will give you extra ticks, but it will only be on 1 player, it is dispelable and will not keep him safe by a mile. Treeform is the only way to deal with Hunter / Feral / Dk / Ret teams. People can just train you to the ground when they realise you do not have treeform.

We have genesis in 5.4 to increase or rejuvenation ticks, we do not need sotf. It will honestly be a really useless talent. Its a PvE talent for meterpadding, and it is a good one for PvE if used for each WG.

#6 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostTimoxa, on 27 June 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Would be nice to know, whats the cast time on cyclone of haste gemmed/forged druids after using swiftmend. On 5.4 ofcourse.

With 100% haste you can get in 2 cyclones in 1,5 seconds, so each cyclone will be 0,75 seconds. Besides that, I am geared heavily away from spirit into 17,5% haste (+5% from ele brings me to 22,5%) So I'm looking at 122,5% haste meaning I can get in 2,2 cyclones in per 1,5 seconds, or 0,68 seconds per cyclone. I think it doesn't matter if you are hasted geared or not with this talent if you use it for CC :D

P.s. I can only encourage every resto druid out there to reforge all your spirit away. Get a higher haste breakpoint, get more mastery. Mana is not an issue anymore, and especially won't be in 5.4

Edited by Feliclandelo, 27 June 2013 - 09:49 AM.


#7 Athená

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:48 AM

If it would only work on casts it would come close to being an alternative but now if you want to use it in pvp you will want to use it on cyclone/regrowth meaning that HAS to be your next cast, which will probably not be the best idea in most cases.
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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

View PostThasta, on 27 June 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Sounds pretty good. In 5.4 you'll be able to use the haste from Soul of the Forest to double the tick frequency of rejuvenation then use Genesis to make it tick 400% faster, aka 8+ ticks in 3 seconds

wtf that's going to be insane, that's like 160k healing or something.

#9

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:18 AM

View PostBraindance, on 27 June 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

And that's why opening class forums to members was a good idea. Good work.

He did try to be constructive and isnt going full retard like "amagawd nerf mage he kill me in shatter nerf now amagawd"

and yes Im a member, im sure u cant stand that either.. and yeah I disliked that members can post here now, but at least he is trying to get some nice discussion going here.

to OP: yes I have played some with the soul of the forest talent its nice to get some quick casts off but I dont really think its worth using for 3v3 when there is so much burst damage.

#10 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 27 June 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

wtf that's going to be insane, that's like 160k healing or something.

1 reju that gains twice as many ticks, is hardly "insane" :D Each 13 or 14 seconds. It will help no doubt but to lose treeform against all the cleaves, you're done for.

View PostSoku, on 27 June 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

He did try to be constructive and isnt going full retard like "amagawd nerf mage he kill me in shatter nerf now amagawd"

and yes Im a member, im sure u cant stand that either.. and yeah I disliked that members can post here now, but at least he is trying to get some nice discussion going here.

to OP: yes I have played some with the soul of the forest talent its nice to get some quick casts off but I dont really think its worth using for 3v3 when there is so much burst damage.

He wasn't being sarcastic rofl.

#11

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:05 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 27 June 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

1 reju that gains twice as many ticks, is hardly "insane" :D Each 13 or 14 seconds. It will help no doubt but to lose treeform against all the cleaves, you're done for.


I was referring to when it's combined with genesis. 8 ticks in 3 seconds is an insane amount of healing and ridiculously efficient.

#12 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 27 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I was referring to when it's combined with genesis. 8 ticks in 3 seconds is an insane amount of healing and ridiculously efficient.

3 globals for what 1 regrowth can do? Genesis will be strong regardless of sotf.

#13 Contrololold

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

I used to run SotF against mirrors (god comp) and destro/frost/healer because there wasn't ever really a time that spamming regrowths was necessary, loved it. 2 second tranquilities are pretty lolzy in particular.

In the current state of the game, running without tree form just isn't feasible-- we'll see about next patch. It's far too strong of a defensive cooldown with bonus armor, infinite clearcasting procs, instant root spam, & regrowths.  I just wish blizz would remove the global cooldown on it already >: (
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#14 Snuggli

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

There was a video by one of the youtube-famous resto druids where they went into this talent in quite a lot of detail. Tree form is really awesome, it's both a good mana-saving CD and a good burst-healing CD, but against drain/pressure comps where you don't really need to react to big burst healing, but rather keep your team topped, SOTF is actually a really viable talent (especially with the incoming buffs to it).

It'll definitely be worth a play around.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#15 Udderly

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 27 June 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:


He wasn't being sarcastic rofl.

Good ol' AJ, where we can never tell =p

#16 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:57 PM

View PostSnuggli, on 27 June 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

There was a video by one of the youtube-famous resto druids where they went into this talent in quite a lot of detail. Tree form is really awesome, it's both a good mana-saving CD and a good burst-healing CD, but against drain/pressure comps where you don't really need to react to big burst healing, but rather keep your team topped, SOTF is actually a really viable talent (especially with the incoming buffs to it).

It'll definitely be worth a play around.

You should really try out treants then. They are amazing for dotcleaves. 20 sec cd per treant, and they heal around 100k inside arena per treant.

#17 Italialol

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:00 PM

I was screwing around with the talent a few days ago, my hasted lifebloom ticks would go from 18 to 31 (w/o 5% haste buff) which is pretty good if you ask me. Moreover, if you cast hasted regrowth to refresh lifeblooms you not only gain super fast cast time but also 2 extra regrowth ticks AND extra Lifebloom ticks as if your lifeblooms were refreshed manually, essentially double dipping the haste proc. As a result, keeping those hasted bloom is pretty easy. 0.8 sec clones are also nice.
However, the talent is extremely situational due to the tree form providing greater utility AND poly immunity which is huge against heavy pressure comps where popping tree early is essential to avoid being PoM sheeped or insta hex'd + druid without tree form is very susceptible to training.
The talent is fun notheless and can be used while playing at lower MMR, in 2s or against comps that have predictable/easily avoidable burst phases + having offheals from a hybrid can aid as well, however, I'm not sure you can get away with it at higher MMR.

#18 Vernaz

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:20 AM

View PostCokesi, on 27 June 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:


-I believe the buff is purge-able, however it only lasts 6 seconds anyway, and you'd generally use it immediately.


A purge-able buff that only lasts for 6 seconds, I don't see how that can compare to Tree form. Although 0.6sec Clones are nice haha, even though there are talks of cyclone becoming dispellable.

#19 Rekkiem

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostItalialol, on 29 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

I was screwing around with the talent a few days ago, my hasted lifebloom ticks would go from 18 to 31 (w/o 5% haste buff) which is pretty good if you ask me. Moreover, if you cast hasted regrowth to refresh lifeblooms you not only gain super fast cast time but also 2 extra regrowth ticks AND extra Lifebloom ticks as if your lifeblooms were refreshed manually, essentially double dipping the haste proc. As a result, keeping those hasted bloom is pretty easy. 0.8 sec clones are also nice.
However, the talent is extremely situational due to the tree form providing greater utility AND poly immunity which is huge against heavy pressure comps where popping tree early is essential to avoid being PoM sheeped or insta hex'd + druid without tree form is very susceptible to training.
The talent is fun notheless and can be used while playing at lower MMR, in 2s or against comps that have predictable/easily avoidable burst phases + having offheals from a hybrid can aid as well, however, I'm not sure you can get away with it at higher MMR.

For the record, I thought the general consensus was that SotF was broken when used with lifebloom on other people (to refresh it using regrowth for eg), and wasn't functioning unless used to refresh it on yourself manually.

Just saying.
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#20 hotcowz

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

You need cd's to counter cd's. Getting a nearly instant clone or regrowth every 13 seconds is nothing compared to benefits of the tree.




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