Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Reasonable Rogue Changes


  • Please log in to reply
127 replies to this topic

#1 Woundman

Woundman
  • Moderators
  • Curse Premium
  • Posts: 312

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:43 AM

Rogues are currently unable to compete at a tournament level. Here is my list of changes without effecting PvE as much as possible.

Begin!

First things first, revert the recent Killing Spree and Blade Flurry changes. Combat will be ridiculous if those changes go live. Second, if you want to make recuperate useful, make it tick every 2 sec and revert the recent Glyph of Recuperate change.

Subtlety:
  • Shadow Dance no longer reduces the energy cost of Ambush.
  • Hemorrhage now causes the target to bleed over 12 sec, down from 24 sec.
  • Sanguinary Vein no longer grants 20% additional damage to targets afflicted by your Rupture, Garrote, or Crimson Tempest.
  • Sinister Calling now increases your agility by 30% and damage by 20%.
Combat:
  • Adrenaline Rush now lasts 10 sec, down from 15 sec. Cooldown reduced to 2 min, down from 3 min.
  • Killing Spree now has a 1.5 min cooldown, down from 2 min. Range reduced to 8 yd, down from 10 yd. Assaults reduced to 5, down from 7.
  • Revealing Strike is now a self buff. Revealing Strike now grants Revealing Insight. Revealing Insight increases the effectiveness of your offensive finishing moves by 35% and causes your Sinister Strike to have a 20% chance to generate an extra combo point for 12 sec.
  • Restless Blades now causes your damaging finishing moves to reduces the remaining cooldown of your Adrenaline Rush, Killing Spree, Redirect, Shadow Blades, and Sprint by 1 sec per combo point and non-damaging finishing moves by .5 sec per combo point.
Assassination:
  • Venomous Wounds now causes your Rupture or Garrote to deal 685 (+ 12% of Attack Power) additional Nature damage and regain 7 Energy per tick (100% instead of 75%). Garrote will not trigger this effect if the enemy is also afflicted by your Rupture. Poison requirement removed.
  • Vendetta is now a self buff. Vendetta increases all damage you deal by 30% and grants you unerring vision while out of stealth, regardless of concealments such as stealth and invisibility. Duration reduced to 10 sec, down from 20 sec. Cooldown reduced to 60 sec, down from 2 min.
Abilities:
  • Mind Numbing Poison (Shiv Effect) now increases the casting time of an enemy's spellcast by 50% for 3 sec.
  • Ambush now costs 40 energy, down from 60 energy.
  • Shiv can no longer be blocked, dodged or parried.
  • Sprint now lasts 6 sec, down from 8 sec. Cooldown reduced to 45 sec, down from 60 sec.
  • Shadow Blades now lasts 8 sec, down from 12 sec. Cooldown reduced to 2 min, down from 3 min.
  • Recuperate now restores health every 2 sec, down from 3 sec.
Talents:
  • Subterfuge now lasts 1.5 sec, down from 3.0 sec.
  • Dirty Tricks now causes your Blind and Gouge to no longer break from damage over time effects and their duration is reduced by 50%.
  • Burst of Speed now increases movement speed by 70% and grants immunity to movement impairing effects for 3 sec. Does not break stealth. 30 sec cooldown.
  • Cheat Death now reduces damage taken by 90%, up from 80%.
Finish him!

Well, that's it for now. I'm far too lazy to elaborate the reasoning for each and every change, because honestly, I highly doubt any of my well thought out changes will ever see the light of day. There are so many ways you can balance the Rogue class and this is just one of many and anyone who says this is the only way it can be done, is a coconut. GL HF!

Edit: Typo
Edit 2: Reworded Vendetta, Burst of Speed, Revealing Strike and Venomous Wounds. Removed energy cost from Burst of Speed. Reduced cooldown to 30 sec, down from 32. Increased duration to 3 sec, up from 2.

Edited by Woundman, 25 June 2013 - 12:13 PM.


#2 Benjitown

Benjitown
  • Members
  • Posts: 1

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:45 AM

Yes, I agree.  Buff hunters =]

#3 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3541
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:56 AM

I suggest that you add some minor justification for some non-straightforward changes (eg. dirty tricks reduces cc duration by 50% and cc doesn't break the dmg-why?

And rename thread to the sad,sad state of rogues part 1

Edited by Braindance, 24 June 2013 - 02:42 AM.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#4 Marshmellow

Marshmellow
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-The Forgotten Coast
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 1970
  • Talents: Windwalker 1/0/2/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 2140
  • 3v3: 2447
  • RBG: 960

Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:02 AM

INB4 Blizzard reads the title and not the post
Posted ImagePosted Image              Posted Image

#5 Woundman

Woundman
  • Moderators
  • Curse Premium
  • Posts: 312

Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:08 AM

View PostMarshmellow, on 24 June 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

INB4 Blizzard reads the title and not the post

It was between this or Insane Rogue Buffs.

#6 Woundman

Woundman
  • Moderators
  • Curse Premium
  • Posts: 312

Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:09 AM

I'm bad at titles.

Edit: Friend told me to change it to Reasonable Rogue Changes. Thank you.

Edited by Woundman, 24 June 2013 - 02:13 AM.


#7 Xjlol

Xjlol
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 12
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/2
  • 2v2: 1712
  • 3v3: 672
  • RBG: 387

Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:42 AM

Nice changes, the thing I don't like is that you focus mainly on damage rather than utility, I feel like rogues have always been known for great utility, and when all you do is just buff damage makes everyone think they are just a super mongoloid class that no one likes. But other than that I think these changes are good in terms of damage

#8 amaixliu

amaixliu
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 367
  • Talents: Combat 2/2/1/1/0/2

Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:47 AM

dang what was the title before

#9 Marshmellow

Marshmellow
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-The Forgotten Coast
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 1970
  • Talents: Windwalker 1/0/2/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 2140
  • 3v3: 2447
  • RBG: 960

Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:52 AM

View Postamaixliu, on 24 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

dang what was the title before

"Nerf Rogues, Buff Hunters"
Posted ImagePosted Image              Posted Image

#10 mimmick

mimmick
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Spirestone
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 283
  • Talents: Subtlety 1/1/2/2/0/1
  • 2v2: 1315
  • 3v3: 1949
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:33 AM

I dont think rogues need more nerfs mate

#11 Xjlol

Xjlol
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 12
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/2
  • 2v2: 1712
  • 3v3: 672
  • RBG: 387

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:53 AM

View Postmimmick, on 24 June 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I dont think rogues need more nerfs mate
What do they need? Buffs? This was well thought out by woundman, if you have better proposed changes, by all means.....

#12 Marshmellow

Marshmellow
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-The Forgotten Coast
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 1970
  • Talents: Windwalker 1/0/2/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 2140
  • 3v3: 2447
  • RBG: 960

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:11 AM

View Postmimmick, on 24 June 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I dont think rogues need more nerfs mate

pretty sure he was being sarcastic
Posted ImagePosted Image              Posted Image

#13 Echizen

Echizen
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Ревущий фьорд
  • Вихрь
  • Posts: 21
  • Talents: Assassination 1/2/2/1/1/0

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:39 AM

My thoughts.
1)There are many ways to balance KS without reverting it. Reduce number of attacks and CD.
2)Is there any reason to revert recup glyph change? Even if it increases it from 5 to 6% it's not really worth it. And i think some passive surviability would be much better then obligation to maintain recup.
3)Restless blade change will affect PVE... badly. So it's not an option. Although the idea of reducing cd of non damaging finishers is good.
4)Cant see why you reduce RvS duration by 40%. And it will affect PVE too so... But anyway there is no need for it.
5)Why exactly 32 seconds CD on BoS? not 30 or 35 but 32 )) Where did it come from? I suggest 15-20 sec cd. While it seem quite OP we will abandon ShS for it so it's ok i think. And cd of ShS needs to be reduced to 20 sec.

#14 Lord Xar

Lord Xar
  • Members
  • Posts: 171

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:39 AM

In regards to Killing Spree - Ok, UP the damage, lower the amount of attacks - seems fair.

But I am not totally sold on your wants for NOT having it do single target. I would say EVERY class has a nukem "ability". Combat has none. Our eviscerates are ssooooo bad. Our sinister strikes are ssoooooo bad. I mean, I pump 5globals of sinister strike into a plate wearer (or hunter etc..) and then I eviscerate and the TOTAL damage is "maybe" 80K worth of damage. In 6-7 seconds lulz. Seriously. You might run with a hunter or whomever than can peel a WIDE amount of attackers, but what about those who don't have that priveledge?  I understand planning "when" to burst, but killing spree right now is tooo obstructed.

Perhaps only allow it to hit "players" in arena. To me, that seems like a more doable comprimise. It is MUCH easier to peel players than whole swaths of pets/guardians etc.. and not so "comp dependent".

Sorry to say, but your revealing strike change from 24sec to 12 sec is dumb. It would be like saying reduce SnD by half. It is just a resource waste to reduce its duration by half. IF you are gonna reduce its duration, then UP its benefit. You have it doing exactly the same thing. I don't get that change at all. Add some type of collusus smash ability to it or increase the combo builder aspect of it.. something. Otherwise, the quality of life change is bad.

Other than BoS, I don't see any mobility changes.

#15 axmurderer

axmurderer
  • Members
  • Posts: 1

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:51 AM

smokebomb darshmellow

#16 WildeHilde

WildeHilde
  • Content Editors
  • Curse Premium
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 2045
  • Talents: Combat 1/1/2/1/1/0
  • RBG: 2215
  • LocationSouthern Germany

Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:02 AM

Maybe some missed it - Revealing Strike and Vendetta are changed to self buffs in this suggestion.

#17 Dethz

Dethz
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 108
  • Talents: Subtlety 1/1/2/1/0/1
  • Locationsocal

Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:15 AM

all we need buffed is our mobility

#18 pyllero

pyllero
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 5
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/2/1/0/2
  • RBG: 2213

Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostDethz, on 24 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

all we need buffed is our mobility
I agree

#19 Flanktwo2

Flanktwo2
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Eredar
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 26
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/1/0/0/2
  • RBG: 2201

Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:57 AM

And sustained. Namely Hemo and Backstab.

#20 Mitoo

Mitoo
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Ragnaros
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 86
  • Talents: Assassination 1/2/1/1/0/2
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationZagreb

Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

While some of this suggestions are very well thought off dont think anything  but overhaul of rogue class can help us.

For me personally main problem at playing rogue is that it is still the same game play as it was at lvl 60, and in that regard its so boring that i have been playing several of my alts each season and didn't touch the rogue seriously since S6.

Yes there are many factor that affect the boring part, I played it for too long, its not special anymore since allot of classes have similar or the same ability that was "rogue" only etc.

We have 3 specs, but what ever you play its totally the same shit with different attack icon, in a nut shell.

Lets take warlock for example, the shit they did with it in MoP for me is AWESOME, what ever spec you play is totally different experience, and is so much  fun, not talking about how good/bad lock is now or was before the change, i am talking about how fun it is to play it in each spec in so many different ways, love it.

Most of the other classes have the same feel, or similar, at least the ones I have as alts, Shaman, Warrior, Mage, DK, what ever spec I chose I have to play it totally different and its fun, some more than others but still, at least feels different.

Just had to get this out of my system, because as much as I loved playing rogue, it is sad to see how boring it is in regards of playing it today, at least for me.

p.s. bad gramar

Edited by Mitoo, 24 June 2013 - 11:15 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<