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Poll: Reverting to BC (107 member(s) have cast votes)

Remove MMR/cleaning achiements-statistics

  1. Remove MMR and keep achievements/statistics (21 votes [19.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.63%

  2. Keep MMR and remove achievements/statistics (2 votes [1.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.87%

  3. Remove/clean both (4 votes [3.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.74%

  4. Keep both as is - don't touch anything (28 votes [26.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.17%

  5. Reset MMR and achievement/statistics every season - add FoS for milestones of each season (eg Grevious 2700 etc) (52 votes [48.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.60%

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#21 hekumzx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise.

LOL

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise.

Edited by Hektiik, 22 June 2013 - 10:15 AM.

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Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#22 hekumzx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:19 AM

Love me some TBC ques that take ages, end up a turtle comp, +1 pt 2 years later.

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Official Blizzard Quote:

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Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#23 freshfreefly

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:24 AM

I don't think removing MMR would be a good idea. Back in TBC, it wasn't a big problem if somebody who was not very experienced met somebody a little more experienced, because the gap between bad and mediocre players wasn't as big as it is now.

Right now, when you start playing, there's nobody to tell you that you're supposed to get keybinds, stop backpedaling, have a123 macros, use skype and stuff.

The only thing i think would be good about removing MMR is the whole familiarity if some 1400 team that never was higher gets to randomly queue into Reckful or another famous player, i'm pretty sure they would very much enjoy that (if they know who he is, that is)

View PostDillypoo, on 03 August 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

GUYS GUYS GUYS IM RUNNING IN I GOT A FEAR OFF THAT!!! Oh wait Tremor... OK OK OK Guys I got another full fear off that!!! Aw shit nimble, OK GUYS GUYS GUYS I SWEAR I HAVE A FULL FEAR! Fuck nevermind... Will. OK OK OK NOW THIS FEAR IS FULL!!! Shit he has tremor back up omg... OK OK OK NOW I HAVE A FULL FEAR ITS FULL KILL KILL Oh whoops... prep tremor... Damnit, I got a full fear this time!!! Oh... he trinketed it... next one should be full... FULL FEAR!!! He has nimble back up WTF.

#24 Virent

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Class balance? Class balance right now is at it's best overall state since....Forever

Class balance was shit in BC. Utter shit. Class balance was OK in wrath, but wrath suffered from other issues (pve gear, one shots, wizards, legendaries, dks etc). Cata was somewhat OK early s10 then went down the dumpster. S12 was an OK first season, that suffered from the common issues first seasons suffer from. The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. If you exclude warriors and rogues everything has a t1 comp, and there is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

Class balance is a drop in the ocean.

I don't mean to sound offensive and I am sorry if I do, but are you insane?
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#25 Mirionx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

Balance as in all classes got viable specs, not balance as in everything is 100% balanced and everyone does the same amount of burst damage and sustained damage has equal amounts of CC

#26 Virent

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:42 AM

View PostMirionx, on 22 June 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Balance as in all classes got viable specs, not balance as in everything is 100% balanced and everyone does the same amount of burst damage and sustained damage has equal amounts of CC

Every class has had viable specs for a while now though. Even cata was miles more balanced than MoP has been in any patch so far.
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#27

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

You people act like the statistic page is even correct.

My stat page has been reset like 3 times.....I was a glad one season but only had 1500 in 3's :(
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#28 Asebring

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostFrequently, on 22 June 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

I only see removing achievements/statistics benefiting low rated players that wanna get carried.
I second that.

Just imagine the fantasy people will have if you cant check their stats or anything.. If you're good people will notice anyway. I started from scratch last season, not played the game since season 4.
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#29 Bailamosx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:56 PM

Well-intentioned post, however, not very well-thought out reasoning and deductions. How would removing statistics and achievements in any competitive environment end up improving overall competition? You stated that it would somehow reduce team-hopping? Doubtful. In fact, I think teams based on "reputation" alone would increase team hopping as it would be easier to lie about your achievements and history. With no background checks, people would grow frustrated between the discrepancy between projected skill and actual skill and quit faster. It's a bit silly too. Removing achievements will never happen as they are such a critical component to the time investment of this MMO we all play. Suggesting such is both radical and ridiculous and makes for very thin gruel indeed.

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#30 sarma

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Class balance right now is at it's best overall state since....Forever

Class balance is at worst state since forever , 5.3 is a final nail in coffin for wow pvp arena and it was never this bad. Game had become  spirit shell > pop cds > spam cc and win or lose in 20 seconds. It has become pointless to play defensivly since most defensives are useless. People zerg through it and score a kill. Unless you got total or almost total immunity you are certainly going to die in opener , there is no exception to this. Amount of teams that can keep a healer in 30 sec non stop cc is absurd. Note that most of that shit cc is instant and cant be prevented.
Unless you play with 2 wizzards that can spam cc 24/7 on 2 dps with cds up keeping a person alive as healer this patch is mission impossible.

Healers cant keep up dmg that is happening , they overfucked battle fattigue and dmg on certain specs. Game has turned into dogcrap.Watching streams and seeing that multi rank1 healers just cant heal against first time in life 2k rated retards that backpaddle and mash dps cooldowns while spamming and overlaping half of their retarded instant cc, This never happened so far with exception of tripple dps in cata , good healers could easily heal through 2 dps bad teams even if those are counters


So fuck you Holinka this is yours to blame.
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#31 fant0m8

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Class balance is a drop in the ocean.

There's more to "class balance" than just class representation, too. I'm not going to comment on class rep since so many others have already done so, but the "biggest issue" that I referred to is bigger than that.

In MoP we have too many abilities. Too many defensive cooldowns, too many offensive cooldowns, too many CCs, too many CC breaks, too many gap closers, and too many gap creaters.

The game doesn't feel "good" when there are so many cooldown abilities in the game and arena matches end up devolving into who can spam out their cooldowns the fastest. In old expansions there were still really good cooldowns/CC/etc, but you didn't have nearly as many of them so the game wasn't nearly as hectic and frustrating.

Personally I think what WoW will actually need is a level/ability squish. Ghostcrawler has ruminated on this topic on twitter in recent months, hopefully that means they will figure out something that won't cause a giant uproar in the PVE community. It probably won't happen until WoW 2/Titan though (2016 lol).
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#32 Dagin

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

View Postsounds_, on 22 June 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I've changed my vote to "Reset MMR and achievement/statistics every season - add FoS for milestones of each season (eg Grevious 2700 etc)" as per the poll update.

my vote. I haven't been 2600+ since wrath I think that is the best choice.

Edited by Dagin, 22 June 2013 - 07:15 PM.

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#33 Mirionx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:55 PM

View PostVirent, on 22 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Every class has had viable specs for a while now though. Even cata was miles more balanced than MoP has been in any patch so far.

Right now every class has at least 2 - 3 specs that are somewhat decent(besides prot specs), that's probably what he means with balanced arena

#34 Thaya

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

             I.      Removing MMR

a.     Shorter queues – high rated players meet lower rated players and vice versa, with the same net effect on the speed with which team rating is gained (for the more experience players)

b.     Much harder to abuse. There have been countless examples of how MMR has been exploited in the past. I don’t remember such stories from BC, apart from the traditional win-trading

c.      Discourages team hopping. This might seem bad to streamers/high rated players, but it also makes lower rated players take care of their team, strive harder to maintain w/l and increases overall activity since you have to work harder for your rating. Also increases glad spots due to less disbanded/inactive teams

d.     Much harder to snipe due to (1)

e.      Effectively kills boosting, since it requires much more effort and time. This safeguards players from unemployed leeches that sell pixelated titles, and actually forces them to play the game themselves

Every new team will start at 1500. I can't see how this will result in shorter queues on high ratings, maybe on the low/mid rating ranges, but are queues a problem there anyway [I play on Outland, so I might be spoiled]?

The speed at which rating is gained is definitely going to be much slower. You can get up to ~90-something rating per win while your personal and team rating are catching up to the teams matchmaking rating. How does this even compare to winning the normal 16-20 rating vs equal teams while you're in the 1500-2200 range, where you'll get matched up vs plenty of teams, both slightly higher and lower? I played shitloads in TBC, and leveling a new team took 30-40 games at least. Games of crushing noobs, mind you - not exactly healthy to attract new players to PvP, is it?

You don't remember such stories from TBC? Before personal rating, you could get Gladiator just by having enough % played in the team - people sold it for gold in Season 1 on trade channel. Season 2 was probably the biggest scum season of all, because leaving queue after pop resulted in a game not happening at all, so wintrading was trivial even during primetime - you could literally find a couple of randoms on trade channel, give them one of your high rated teams and instruct them on what to do, and wintrade between your own teams (I know someone who did this, I shit you not). This existed the entire season. For every legit S2 rank 1, there's a dozen wintraded ones, let alone Gladiator. Don't you remember that selling 2k teams on trade was actually a thing? I don't remember what exactly we did in S3 and S4 after personal rating was introduced, but we somehow boosted people in 2v2, and these boosts were the main source of gold for me.

This won't affect boosting in any way. It's all about team and personal rating right now, it'll still be without MMR.

I'm not saying that the current matchmaking system is perfect, but removing MMR and using the TBC system is definitely not the way to go. They introduced MMR for very specific reasons. If anything, I think it's team and/or personal rating that have to go or change. I'd love to see a simpler matchmaking system, with less ratings, less "locking" to teams. Also, I feel like they changed the math somewhere during MoP, as queues feel a lot shorter now - even if you look at streams of 2.5k players, it's much better than it used to be in Cataclysm.

I agree that achievements/statistics/rewards have to change, though. I've talked about the reward system plenty of times before, you know my point of view on this anyway.
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#35 Braindance

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:24 AM

Appreciate the feedback from everyone that took the time to share his/her ideas. I merely wanted to entice people to post on how to improve the matchmaking system.

Thanks to the mod that deleted all those retarded comments made by the same unemployed, uneducated, ugly, acne-ridden virgins that keep attacking me every time. Unfortunately, for some reasons I couldn't log in on AJ and respond in kind.

Now for class balance. It is obvious that the people commenting on what I said about balance, think that balance is attained when they have high ratings or when their class is op. It doesn't work like that. Feel free to take the number of specs viable in PvP currently and compare them to other seasons. Try to compare the amount of stupid mechanics in arenas now and then (rng stuns, spell/stun resists, heroism, pve gear).

And open a dictionary.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#36 Centy

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:10 AM

Remove mmr completely - get back to tbc system. One of the best ideas i ve ever seen being posted. I ve been thinking about it now and then aswell, really wish it comes true one day.
Such an simpler ranking system than the current one, yet as reliable.

Crushing noobs would discourage new players from pvp'ing? Hell why would that happen. Practically can only happen in the beginning of a season or when some high rateds decide to start over a new team, thing that really, just, doesnt happen very often, especially with a system like this, with going up process being harder than of what it is today.

Wintrading? Was, is, and will always be possible no matter what ranking system is used. From what i remember, in the late tbc seasons, there was something that did not allow one team meet the same opponents within a short period of time. Furthermore, wintrading actually required both teams to be high rated, thus a lot of work from both sides, whilst now mmr is enough to make it work. Not like every player in the game has to be seen as a potential wintrader anyway...

Now for the achievement removal part, I dont see how this would help imrove the pvp system in general.
Every achievement earned has the date which it was earned stabbed on it. So, whether someone thinks of somebody else as being a stoneage hero, he can simply avoid him. While I dont think players should be falling into discriminating others according to their achievements. A good player can be spotted from miles regardless how new he is or how many achievement points he has got.

Edited by Centy, 23 June 2013 - 02:11 AM.


#37 Toastboy

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:27 AM

Removing achievements would be really stupid, imo achievements are one of the good things that has came to this game since BC.

#38 AcerMVP

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

I pretty much want BC Arena's back.

#39 hc4b

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

^ give this man dinner and a cigar

#40 Capstone

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

View PostCenty, on 23 June 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Wintrading? Was, is, and will always be possible no matter what ranking system is used. From what i remember, in the late tbc seasons, there was something that did not allow one team meet the same opponents within a short period of time. Furthermore, wintrading actually required both teams to be high rated, thus a lot of work from both sides, whilst now mmr is enough to make it work. Not like every player in the game has to be seen as a potential wintrader anyway...
this really isn't true, when there was transparency it was easier to see wintrading. people wouldn't do it just for fear of being ridiculed by their peers. for whatever reason, when they upgraded the armory out of its 4-5year beta period, they removed that transparency

that would be okay, except blizzard seems negligent in enforcing their rules on arena and rbg ladders. i'm actually less surprised when i see them insulating people than i am when i see them policing them

if there was that same transparency today, blizzard could literally take a page out of riot's book and let the community police the ladders themselves and retain a veto power. apart from that, they would need a completely different system to distribute and revalue titles (something like all gladiator eligible teams play a bo5 tournament for rank 1 title)




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