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What rogues need to be competitive

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#41 Echizen

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:32 AM

No matter how you look at it something must be reworked. I personally hate recuperation. No matter how many % it will restore it's worthless. Rogue need CP to keep pressure, and even if he by chance need healing it's just too late to activate it. So if nothing seems dangerous you will spend your CP on stun,SnD,rupture, evis and if it does you just die anyway.

It should be either instant healing spell\at least every second for 6% and not every 3 seconds or a spell with no CP cost maybe even a passive spell.

#42 swiftwing22

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:28 PM

Has anyone seen changes on ptr ?
Patch 5.4 PTR Notes Update - June 20

All classes gew something reworked, better and rogues only got ONE, ONE CHANGE:

glyph of recuperate inc. healing by 1% instead of 0.5%
This is trolling, i'm 100% shure

#43 swiftwing22

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:38 PM

And about chnages, i would like to see assassination shining once again in pvp, i'm tired of sub, they should give assassination cold blood back , make vendetta to inc rogues dmg by % instead on the target, lower dmg coming from poisons and auto attacks and inc dmg from combo builders, because mutilate is doing no dmg atm for its energy cost, ( ye you get 2 or 3 combo points but finishers also hit lame...) , and when you put vendeta on somone and you need to switch you loose major cds and nothing you can do about it, maybe they should make vendeta work with redirect, but atm rogues is just retarded class.

If you ask me what would i do first of all, is remove Slice and dice, and inc our combo builder dmg, since white attack and poison procs come out of so much haste, i would drop slice and dice anyday just too see our combo builders doing some serious dmg.

And if assassination is all about poisons, make mutilate then poison attack maybe...

But i don't think anything will change

Wow is like old trousers, they where nice and shiny while new, but atm there are so many patches on them , thet you can't even recognize them any more....

#44

Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:05 PM

Great suggestions, Ayume.  +1

#45 Milky

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

View Postswiftwing22, on 22 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Has anyone seen changes on ptr ?
Patch 5.4 PTR Notes Update - June 20

All classes gew something reworked, better and rogues only got ONE, ONE CHANGE:

glyph of recuperate inc. healing by 1% instead of 0.5%
This is trolling, i'm 100% shure

I'm sure there are more changes in the works. Blizzard should scrap leeching poison since it's completely useless and create a new talent.

An interesting talent for that tier would be something that provides defense during stuns.For example, stun effects cause recuperate to tick every second instead of every 3 seconds,basically a second wind. 1 second is just an example, maybe every 1.5-2 depending on how much they buff recuperate in the end.

#46 mirox

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:55 PM

View PostMilky, on 22 June 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm sure there are more changes in the works. Blizzard should scrap leeching poison since it's completely useless and create a new talent.

An interesting talent for that tier would be something that provides defense during stuns.For example, stun effects cause recuperate to tick every second instead of every 3 seconds,basically a second wind. 1 second is just an example, maybe every 1.5-2 depending on how much they buff recuperate in the end.
Even though its a nice idea, it wont happen. Simply because you have to think of talent that would be appealing in both pve and pvp environment.

#47 Milky

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

Well then they can leave leeching poison alone, bake the current recup glyph into recup, and change the recup glyph to speed up the heal effect during stuns.

Edited by Milky, 22 June 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#48 FuguFish

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

View Postmirox, on 22 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Even though its a nice idea, it wont happen. Simply because you have to think of talent that would be appealing in both pve and pvp environment.

AFAIK, leeching poison is pretty shit in raids because it's so lackluster in terms of hps. I guess levelling a rogue must be better now from a quality of life point of view.

#49 Dragomir

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

Without leeching poison, brawler's guild fights would be much, much harder, as well as pve soloing in general.  The Shiv effect helps a lot in pve soloing and whatnot.  No reason to remove it from the game, imo.  Not every talent has to be great for pvp.

Now, if they made Elusiveness also refresh feint if you had the buff up when you get stunned, that'd be nice.

#50 discoepfeand

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostFuguFish, on 22 June 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

AFAIK, leeching poison is pretty shit in raids because it's so lackluster in terms of hps. I guess levelling a rogue must be better now from a quality of life point of view.

It is.  When I leveled my rogue in MoP, the difference between using leeching and a different utility poison was dramatic.

#51 The_Observer

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

The could just make leeching baseline so rogues could have it for lvling and it wouldn't be a buff to anything since it would still be shit in pvp and raids.

#52 sounds

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

View PostThe_Observer, on 22 June 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

The could just make leeching baseline so rogues could have it for lvling and it wouldn't be a buff to anything since it would still be shit in pvp and raids.

Yeah but then they'd go ahead and take another spell/talent we already had and put it in the talent tree instead.

Imagine having to choose between sap and kick.

#53 meshu

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:56 PM

We need blind on prep and our drs to be non existent, halo holinka

View PostAcerMVP, on 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

You're a RBG hero, you have no say in Arenas. You only say this because you can kill some one with one button in RBG's and not be killed, sorry buddy, but RBGS =/= Arenas.
Please review signature rules: http://www.arenajunk...-rules-2272014/

#54 Flanktwo2

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:35 PM

All Holinka is going to read from the post is - Mutilate is OP  and Subs evis damage is too high. Everything else is just rogue whine to the clowns that are Ghostcrowaler and Holinka.

Srsly, I lost hope in those clowns when they nerfed dps mobility and control after 5.2 everyone knew that would bring us lower than 5.1. At least then we had 70% FW  and 1:30 blind. Now I can't kill shit anymore.

But yay we got prep. That we've had since the sub tree existed. What a gift,

#55 swiftwing22

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:17 PM

Mutilate ain't OP , not at all :/

#56 limek

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:38 PM

View PostAyume, on 22 June 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

Rupture has never really been good damage.
It's been in Vanilla

#57 Ayume

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:47 PM

View Postlimek, on 24 June 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

It's been in Vanilla



Go to 5:10, it's ticking for 131 out of 3.8k hp pool. It was never good damage, it's just that in vanilla/bc eviscerate was so bad that it had a situational use against plate.

Edited by Ayume, 24 June 2013 - 09:50 PM.

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#58 Reirei

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:11 PM

rogue moblity needs some kind of buff

ty for suggestions ayume

View Postswiftwing22, on 22 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Has anyone seen changes on ptr ?
Patch 5.4 PTR Notes Update - June 20

All classes gew something reworked, better and rogues only got ONE, ONE CHANGE:

glyph of recuperate inc. healing by 1% instead of 0.5%
This is trolling, i'm 100% shure

5.0 came out live, they weren't trolling
shut up pvp guy

#59 KPul

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostAyume, on 21 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Another problem is that AoEing a rogue in stealth and him having 3 seconds (more if you count vanish -> subterfuge) until he comes back out is a bit absurd, really I feel that you should be rewarded for guesstimating correctly when he’s stealthed.


I agree that popping a rogue out should be rewarding.  Problem is if a rogue does happen to get popped out it often ends up in the rogue losing 9 times out of 10,  with the rogues dependency on find weakness to create pressure they have to use one of their major cooldowns prematurely.     It takes a dramatic player error to lose to a rogue who doesnt get his initial opener in MoP.

Every expansion gets more and more annoying for rogues to get the openers they like because of the addition of more and more targetable AoE's added into the game.   With MoP we saw Feral/Resto druids getting typhoon, a large influx of hunters resulting in Imp Camo/Flare, Mannoroths Fury on locks / instant RoF's, Divine star/Halo for priests.     In previous expansions there was usually only 1 AoE move per class that rogues had to predict/maneuver around.  Back then, while still an uphill battle, it wasnt as much of a devastating hit to be popped out of stealth because rogues could still do reasonable damage outside of find weakness.

I still stand behind making rogues visible during subterfuge and have it remain the same duration. In my opinion, that change would be perfect.    ATM with subterfuge, I am able to (with SnD) Garrote>Ambush>Eviscerate>Ambush  or Garrote>Ambush>Eviscerate>Cheap Shot.    These openers are strong enough for me to ignore the fact that subterfuge bugs shadowdance extremely often.   I dont think shortening subterfuge is the right way to nerf it without hurting rogues much needed openers.

Also,

Am I the only rogue who doesnt like the way they changed Faerie Fire durations?    Why cant they just make it like hunters mark, where you can vanish the debuff away.    You can vanish hunters mark, you can vanish vendetta, why not faerie fire?    Shortening the duration to 20 seconds isn't going to change the fact that druids will use every free global to refresh Faerie fire because of it having no CD.   It would still serve its purpose to prevent rogues from running behind corners to get restealths all game.    I would be happier if they reverted the faerie fire duration nerf, and just made it so i could vanish the debuff away.
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#60 Reirei

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

as i said somewhere before, FF should be threated like any other spammable magic CC (poly is an example); it DRs with itself, can be dispelled, and first application lasts for 8 sec; some might bring up flare that lasts for a while, but flare is stational, you can actually run out of it

as for subterfuge, i would rather have 2 sec stealth when you get hit by aoe, but if you hit someone out of stealth you should become visible but still can use openers for 2 sec; obviously attack from rogue should have priority in dropping stealth

i agree subterfuge is stong talent but amount of aoe dmg AND aoe CC in this expac is just beyond stupid, i don't see how it should be rewarding to be able to pop rogue out of stealth when it is so incredibly easy this expac, it should be rewarding when it is hard and binded with a lot of costs which it is not atm; if you would bring wrath rogue (mechanics wise) and make them play game right now they wouldn't be able to get any openers ever

side note, from any class view: ferals need amount of their CCs/interrupts reduced imo
shut up pvp guy





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